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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:28 pm 
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I think that when people say that they are "drug free" or "clean" or whatever (I really dislike that kind of terminology because it is so inaccurate and open to misunderstanding) what they are really getting at is that they are "free" of their DOC or whatever drug they abused.

Personally, I don't really care about being "drug free" so much as I care about being free of the mental obsession to get high, the disordered thinking of active addiction, and the physical and mental hell that I experienced when I was abusing opiates. I will never be "drug free" because I take medications to treat a chronic illness, I like coffee and the occasional vodka tonic, I get migraines and take triptan medications for them, and I find that Ibuprofin greatly increases my quality of life.

Also, I have known plenty of so-called "drug-free" people who are still caught up in the sick mentality and dysfunctional thought processes of addiction - so it's not like just getting the chemicals out of your body guarantees that you will recover from addiction.

That said, I get what Bboy is saying about his need to get off all other drugs than bupe, and why he would consider that an accomplishment similar to becoming "drug free." If a person is using pot or whatever other chemical or behavior as a coping tool and they find that the drug/behavior doesn't serve them or it in some way is preventing them from moving forward in their recovery, then it is a major and positive step for said person to recognize that fact and take steps to correct it. The fact that the person still takes Suboxone does not invalidate their recovery or sobriety, and the fact that they were able to stop using/abusing other drugs or behaviors in conjunction with correctly using Suboxone does, I believe, entitle them to consider themselves "clean" "sober" and "drug free."

There was a time (actually that time is probably still now in some places) where an addict in recovery was not considered "clean" or "drug free" if they took psychiatric medications like antidepressants or anti-anxiety meds. For the most part, these medications are now accepted as a valid part of recovery for many addicts with co-occurring disorders. They are "allowed" to consider themselves "clean" or "drug free" for the purposes of their recovery. Hopefully we will soon come to consider buprenorphine the same way.

My personal experience was that after 2 years on Suboxone, once I tapered off (I've been off for just over a year), I do not really feel any different than I did while I was on Suboxone. I didn't have to start my recovery process over when I quit Suboxone and all the gains I made during my 2 years on Sub stayed with me when I stopped taking it. I experience the same range of emotions that I did while I was on Suboxone, and I don't find that I have had to work substantially harder to maintain my recovery for the last 12 months off sub than I did during the last 12 months on Sub.

So, yeah. I get that a Suboxone patient declaring that they are "drug free" (although what bboy actually said was that he was drug-free besides the Suboxone) could rub certain people the wrong way, but what it really comes down to, in my opinion, is just a kind of policing of people's language that is really unhelpful and counterproductive. In the end, it really doesn't matter if a person is on or off Suboxone, totally free from the intake of any mind-altering chemical whatsoever, or using weed in moderation...so long as they are maintaining their physical, emotional, & spiritual life and are free of the obsession to use and are functioning and enjoying a decent quality of life. It's just words, man.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Diary of a Quitter wrote:
I think that when people say that they are "drug free" or "clean" or whatever (I really dislike that kind of terminology because it is so inaccurate and open to misunderstanding) what they are really getting at is that they are "free" of their DOC or whatever drug they abused.

Personally, I don't really care about being "drug free" so much as I care about being free of the mental obsession to get high, the disordered thinking of active addiction, and the physical and mental hell that I experienced when I was abusing opiates. I will never be "drug free" because I take medications to treat a chronic illness, I like coffee and the occasional vodka tonic, I get migraines and take triptan medications for them, and I find that Ibuprofin greatly increases my quality of life.

Also, I have known plenty of so-called "drug-free" people who are still caught up in the sick mentality and dysfunctional thought processes of addiction - so it's not like just getting the chemicals out of your body guarantees that you will recover from addiction.

That said, I get what Bboy is saying about his need to get off all other drugs than bupe, and why he would consider that an accomplishment similar to becoming "drug free." If a person is using pot or whatever other chemical or behavior as a coping tool and they find that the drug/behavior doesn't serve them or it in some way is preventing them from moving forward in their recovery, then it is a major and positive step for said person to recognize that fact and take steps to correct it. The fact that the person still takes Suboxone does not invalidate their recovery or sobriety, and the fact that they were able to stop using/abusing other drugs or behaviors in conjunction with correctly using Suboxone does, I believe, entitle them to consider themselves "clean" "sober" and "drug free."

There was a time (actually that time is probably still now in some places) where an addict in recovery was not considered "clean" or "drug free" if they took psychiatric medications like antidepressants or anti-anxiety meds. For the most part, these medications are now accepted as a valid part of recovery for many addicts with co-occurring disorders. They are "allowed" to consider themselves "clean" or "drug free" for the purposes of their recovery. Hopefully we will soon come to consider buprenorphine the same way.

My personal experience was that after 2 years on Suboxone, once I tapered off (I've been off for just over a year), I do not really feel any different than I did while I was on Suboxone. I didn't have to start my recovery process over when I quit Suboxone and all the gains I made during my 2 years on Sub stayed with me when I stopped taking it. I experience the same range of emotions that I did while I was on Suboxone, and I don't find that I have had to work substantially harder to maintain my recovery for the last 12 months off sub than I did during the last 12 months on Sub.

So, yeah. I get that a Suboxone patient declaring that they are "drug free" (although what bboy actually said was that he was drug-free besides the Suboxone) could rub certain people the wrong way, but what it really comes down to, in my opinion, is just a kind of policing of people's language that is really unhelpful and counterproductive. In the end, it really doesn't matter if a person is on or off Suboxone, totally free from the intake of any mind-altering chemical whatsoever, or using weed in moderation...so long as they are maintaining their physical, emotional, & spiritual life and are free of the obsession to use and are functioning and enjoying a decent quality of life. It's just words, man.


I understand 100% were you are coming from and will also add you are right!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:03 pm 
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This is an interesting topic for me. I don't care about the semantics of "drug free" or not "drug free" from where I sit, I am doing pretty damned good right now considering where I came from.

I still smoke the occasional - very, very occasional - marijuana, but it's actually now been a few months since I've touched it. I don't have a prescription for it, it's not legal in my state, but it is legal in states that border my state. And I've discussed this at length with my gastroenterologist as well as my therapist.

Living with advanced HepC isn't easy sometimes. I've had days where the abdominal pain was fairly acute. Pot does nothing for me when it comes to pain. I really have to question the legitimacy of the claims that are made regarding its alleged analgesic properties, and I'm an extremely experienced user.

However, it IS very very good at relieving nausea. And so once in a great while -and I'm talking maybe 6 times a year- I smoke a little (3 or 4 puffs from a joint, if that) when the nausea kicks in, and it works. Whenever I have chosen to do this, I have spoken to my therapist about it. Just to be on the safe side. Again, it's very rare, and only when I can't shake the nausea...frankly, the way it makes me feel, especially now that I am THC naive, is not an attraction for me any more. I can't drive on it, I can't work on it, I'm pretty much useless if I touch it, but it does relieve my nausea quite effectively.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:21 pm 
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junkie781 wrote:
This is an interesting topic for me. I don't care about the semantics of "drug free" or not "drug free" from where I sit, I am doing pretty damned good right now considering where I came from.

I still smoke the occasional - very, very occasional - marijuana, but it's actually now been a few months since I've touched it. I don't have a prescription for it, it's not legal in my state, but it is legal in states that border my state. And I've discussed this at length with my gastroenterologist as well as my therapist.

Living with advanced HepC isn't easy sometimes. I've had days where the abdominal pain was fairly acute. Pot does nothing for me when it comes to pain. I really have to question the legitimacy of the claims that are made regarding its alleged analgesic properties, and I'm an extremely experienced user.

However, it IS very very good at relieving nausea. And so once in a great while -and I'm talking maybe 6 times a year- I smoke a little (3 or 4 puffs from a joint, if that) when the nausea kicks in, and it works. Whenever I have chosen to do this, I have spoken to my therapist about it. Just to be on the safe side. Again, it's very rare, and only when I can't shake the nausea...frankly, the way it makes me feel, especially now that I am THC naive, is not an attraction for me any more. I can't drive on it, I can't work on it, I'm pretty much useless if I touch it, but it does relieve my nausea quite effectively.


I really like how you put it J!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:52 pm 
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If you're wondering if "medicinal marijuana" would help with pain and not the point about it being legal or not, it definately works on pain. Years ago, when I got my hands on real "medicinal marijuana", it not only worked on my pain but also my anxiety. At the same time, some strains, eg. schwag weed, will make most paranoid. It all depends on the strain. I used to grow my own when I was younger. I had a few different types. Some helped me focus more, some took away some pain but would put me to sleep w/out help from any kind of pill. What I smoked depended on what I planned on doing afterwards. Long story short, I haven't smoked in years, but it's the STRAIN that makes the difference.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:47 am 
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The greater bulk of medical job openings involves clinical medicine, or the field of medicine that has to do with the diagnosis and treatment of diseases. This implies that there are less people who are fully qualified to occupy a position involving patient consultations and diagnoses/treatment of illnesses.

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 Post subject: 7year subs 7 years clean
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:09 am 
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We will all be addicts for the rest of our live. I've been off oxy for 7 years and still remember the taste. Also been on subs the same time. StatS have it that 90% relapse without substitution treatment. Aka subs, done etc


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:33 am 
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No. Just no. Sleepy, hungry, and stupid. I laugh at shit I shouldn't be laughing at.


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