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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:53 pm 
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I'd like to talk about using other recreational drugs while in recovery from opiate addiction. I'm including medical marijuana because some people consider it kind of a grey area and not every state has legalized medical marijuana so people have to "self prescribe."

In school we learned that abstaining from your DOC (or whatever you are addicted to) while still indulging in other recreational drugs is a form of harm reduction. It's progress, but that real recovery is abstinence from any non-prescribed mood-altering chemicals. Do you agree with that?

Alcohol is a weird one for me. I am not a big drinker and I don't have a problem with alcohol. I can have a drink and then stop. I drink every couple of months, wine at dinner or a Bloody Mary at brunch. I feel comfortable making this decision for myself, but I know that in some recovery circles, this would mean that I'm still "actively using." I didn't drink when I was on Sub because my doctor asked me not to, and I didn't have any desire to either. I do know that if I found myself turning to alcohol to deal with problems in my life.

The there are other recreational drugs. I'm sure many of us have used drugs other than opiates. Maybe to the point of abuse or addiction, and maybe not. Does that matter when taking into consideration whether to abstain from those drugs in the future? Is it even a legitimate question? Or does recovery equal abstinence for you?

I have more to say but I have to get to work. I just wanted to get the conversation started and I'll check back in later.

Please remember to be respectful of each other's opinions, I think if we are we could learn a lot from each other, but I understand that this is a loaded topic for a lot of people. If you find you're getting really hot about something, maybe take a break before you respond.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:48 pm 
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This is an interesting topic.

I'm gonna try and keep my opinions based on my own experience because I believe God did not build all of us addicts exactly the same. What works for me, may not work for another.

First, I wanted to talk about experiencing a change of consciousness. Drugs certainly induce changes in our consciousness and I don't think that's a bad thing. Heck, every night I go to sleep, I experience a change in my consciousness. IMO, where the trouble starts is when our behaviors start to reflect addictive tendencies with a drug or behavior.

Having said that, I'm a lot like DoaQ in that I can drink without trouble. Alcohol has never really caused me any serious addictive behaviors. I generally stay away from it because #1---I really don't care for it all that much and #2---I know I'm an addict and the potential is always there for me to abuse it, even if it has never caused me trouble in the past. Over the last couple of years, I drink about once a year. We go to a Halloween party and I usually drink my face off, have a great time, and then it's done.

Now, when it comes to weed or blow or opiates, I lose control of those substances very quickly. Even though I don't think weed is really that bad of a drug and I used it for years and years without any real issues, I was addicted to it and I stay away from it because I don't want any narcotics in my system. It's just a personal choice I've made.

If people can use some drugs and manage to not become addicted to them, then I think that's fine.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:15 pm 
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I will try and add more to this discussion later but for right now I wanted to say that I have never really met a drug or substance, especially downers like opiates, benzos and alcohol that I didn't want to take more of and all the time.

I came from an alcoholic/drug addict family so I decided I would only smoke pot. Not long before i was smoking it every day all day for years. Pretty soon I had some alcohol just to 'be social', once I realized how I loved the feeling I decided I could be a social drinker. I kind of got hooked on opiates and benzos after I realized I couldn't control my drinking. I stopped drinking but I would smoke weed and take pills for around 9 months. Then when I realized I was taking pills all the time and had just switched my substance, I stopped the pills, got thru the withdrawals and surprise, not long after I was drinking again. A few years later I thought I could take pills once and a while and before you know it I am taking opiates, benzos, alcohol and weed all the time. That lasted years until I found suboxone and AA.

Sub has been the only drug I could take as prescribed. Never got strung out on coke but if it was around I would do it till its gone and steal yours and do that too. Done all the ecstasy, psychedelics, u name it I did it as much as I could. I don't believe a person like me can really touch anything. More power to you if you can.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:31 am 
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funny how my suboxone doctor say's its ok for me to have a couple drinks now and then and its good for me. i can remember when i was getting drunk do" to my P-T-S-D and does not happen any more on suboxone. i think doctors and other professionals should use suboxone for drunks and not that bad antabuse.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:38 am 
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I always found cocaine, heroin and amphetamines to be pretty much interchangeable. I could have the worst heroin habit but get on the meth, and I'd be going so fast I'd literally forget I was in withdrawals. Then when I'd eventually quit using meth or cocaine (I could never sustain a binge for that long) ... it wouldn't be long before I found myself using heroin again.

Weed was an interesting one. It was the first real drug I had a relationship with. I remember in high school when a friend mentioned to me that I might have a weed problem. I hadn't even considered it. I always thought that weed was the kinda drug that's easy to quit... it was just easier to keep smoking. However I did manage to quit when it came time to finish my high school (pressure to pull out the grades), then a few months later I "lost the plot" and my brain short-circuited. It was a few weeks after I'd taken time-off school to recover that I found heroin.

These days I might smoke a bit occasionally, but I find it easy not to buy it. As long as I don't buy it it doesn't become a habit. I've also noticed I can't smoke for any length of time before my sanity takes a hit (no pun intended).

Alcohol I've never had a problem. I've even consciously tried to replace heroin with alcohol at one stage. I remember sitting on the tram swigging a bottle of vodka because I figured being an alcoholic was more socially acceptable than being a heroin addict. Within a few days I gave it up for heroin. Getting drunk takes too long and the pleasure reward just wasn't the same.

The only thing I might have had to worry about was when I was using on Suboxone ... I'd use alcohol to prime me up before I'd use, to get more effect over the blockade. I noticed that when I was doing that, I started to equate alcohol with pleasure and started to crave booze a bit. But I pulled up and it's been fine ever since.

Done lots of every other drug incl some crazy obscure ones you could buy over the internet that weren't quite illegal at the time (but crazy nonetheless). I didn't really find any of them that addictive. The main addictive ones for me were heroin, benzos, meth, cocaine and opioids.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:20 am 
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This is definitely a great topic :wink:

in my honest opinion, I think only when one obsesses aboout whatever drug, is it a problem.

lets say for instance, this person thinks it's "okay" to smoke a blunt on 'occasion'
so they're rule of thumb becomes lets say,,,,,,,, monthly.
so, for the entire month, they think "I cant wait til (whatever day) to smoke"
two weeks prior they are like buying whatever they want to have on hand for munchies, you know, gettin primed up. LOL

I just think,,,, ANY time you obsess over something, its a problem. When it controls YOU,,,,,,,,, its a problem.

Im with glen bee.
ive never really been the person that can do ONE, of ANYTHING. LOL and suboxone is the first thing Ive EVER been able to take like Im soposed to, also. in the begining, I had to 'make sure' I guess, that there was no reward. LOL but I did figure it out, and things have been great since.

Ive asked my doctor if 'weed' was okay. He said he thinks so, if it wasn't previously a problem, and if I ever do smoke some, to just talk to him about it, you know in case I get a u/a. Well, the day we talked about it, I was like HELL YA
buddy!!!!
I haven't though. I dont know what it is??? I dont really have any interest I guess. I thought I did, but I think it would make me feel guilty. and I dont want that to happen. If there comes a time, where I WOULDN'T think I'd feel that way, I might just smoke a 'j' LOL
but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Alcohol,,,,,,,,,, the only time I ever took it to the extreme was in high school. when I guess I was 'being cool' LOL
BUT,,,,,,
as an adult, or since Ive turned 21, I haven't really drank. The smell of alcohol, especially the 'stale' smell,
brings a FLOOD of old (bad) memories, and I just can't handle it.
So, I guess that's a good deterant.
I did drink one beer like the first month I was on suboxone,,,,,,,,,,,,, I was at my husband's family reunion..... and everyone was either smoking weed, drinking, or snorting something. I felt so outta place, and fragile. So I had a beer cuz I thought it would 'take the edge off'
well.......I was in for a shock!! for me, it didn't seem to 'mix well'
my face felt hot, and I didnt 'feel' anything from the beer expect not great :wink: haven't tried since.

there's my two cents.............

I think all of us ARE different. we all came from different places, and had different 'careers' with drugs.
so,,, if you can have a beer or two or smoke a j and forget about it the next day, then great.

I mean, the odds are stacked against us,,,,,,,, we gotta do what keeps us sane!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:58 am 
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Thanks for explaining these laws.


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 Post subject: Medical maryjane
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:37 am 
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Quitter,
For me personally, medical marijuana prescribed by a doc has been a godsend. I never had a heroine addiction but I definitely did my share of coke, meth, drinking, and anything else I could get my hands on, legal or not. Psychedelics were never anymore than an occasional for me either, but weed has been a companion of mine for 20+ years. Unfortunately, I lived in MS where we didn't even have legal alcohol, much less weed. Coming to WA state to a place where the finest weed in the world is available at any of a hundred dispensaries has definitely helped me kick the opiates. My dad was an addict-alcoholic so I am predisposed to addiction. I am diagnosed ADD and was institutionalized at 15 for substance abuse.

In the first couple of weeks coming off subox, had I not had my vaporizer and some good weed, I don't know if I would have been able to combat the cravings and mental anguish of being without the opiates.

However, I know a lot of people that even one of anything starts them back down that road. My father died in a car accident due to his addictions less than 2 years ago. He was one of those, and he never could break free of the alcohol and cigarettes.
Maybe that is why I made the choices I did and am still married to my young love of 22+ years. Having hope, not a drug, would probably save more people than anything, but as the old man said "whatever floats your boat". We as addicts are all different, and everyone needs to make an informed decision on their own situation. I will say this about weed though, there is not one time in 20+ years that I have ever had a wd because I ran out of weed, and I ran out a lot in the deep south. I never
pawned anything to buy some weed but I definitely pawned some shit to buy some oxy's. Anything that helps folks to get out of the opiate cycle, is a plus as long as you are not replacing it with another physically or mentally addictive substance or behavior.

Fire it up and forget about it! At least it works for me. I hope to never backslide, these opiates and especially the subox has been the toughest kick of my life, and I'm only at a month...D


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 Post subject: Classifications
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:28 am 
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The only thing that really ever bothered me about calling marijuana a narcotic and scheduling it as an S1 was that it seems that the laws in this country are quite biased toward the rx industry, and marijuana has paid a high price for that. A narcotic implies to me a physically AND mentally addictive substance from which the general population needs protection. I don't believe weed in it's "dirt weed" or "swag" forms is a true danger to anybody except an asthmatic or children. I know that me and my boys back in the day would try to smoke ourselves to death(not really) and never even got close. The same can not be said for alcohol, pain meds, meth, coke, heroine, and any other you would like to add to the list. The newer strains are much more potent, but the same still applies. You may eat up 5 lbs of junk food, zone out, and take a nap, but you won't die in your sleep or feel like starting a fight or a crime spree as is much more likely on some of the narcotics and especially alcohol.

While true that in a percentage of the population, any form of intoxication poses a risk for those individuals as well as others around them, this is mostly true of the young ones or inexperienced ones. However, I would still rather deal with the typical first time stoner than deal with the first time binge drinker or first time strong rx opiate user. The first time drinker doesn't need a hook up, a special rx or even any additional accessories to go way past the safe zone on their alcohol intake and endanger themselves and those around them.

The biggest thing to remember is that we all need to know our limits, and those of us with addictive tendencies have to be especially vigilant and aware of our own triggers and avoid them at all cost. My dad could never stop at any number of drinks, instead he drank from the time he got up until he went to bed. Unfortunately, for a lot of us addicts, that is the norm for any DOC. The only way for you to be safe with you, is to truly know yourself and try to avoid situations that make you vulnerable to your own addiction process. If you can have a drink or two or a toke or two and stop without ending up at your dealers house for a pill or a hit, consider yourself lucky and enjoy. If you can't, then you just can't. I have seen too many friends go from a good road to a bad road in a split second, never to return.

The number one thing to remember in all this is that there are no hard and fast rules in this game of life and addiction. Even though the institution I spent 9 months in at age 15 would have you believe differently, you can be ok without having to be 100% clean and sober all the time. We weren't put on this earth to suffer, but to live a joyous life. Make memories with your families, love those in your lives as though you could lose them tomorrow and above all take care of yourself. We don't have to beat ourselves up because we can't conform to the ideal. That's why it's the ideal.

Didn't mean to get up on the pulpit, another one of the side effects of the maryjane...;-)~~~~~~D


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:35 pm 
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First I'd like to say hello and introduce myself to the forum. ive been a member but can not remember my old log in info. I've been opiod free since october 27 of 2012. My sub doctor is also my therapist. He is a well respected psychiatrist in this area. I have asked him his take on marijuana simce i have crohns disease. He told me he didn't see a problem with marijuana because its never overtaken my life. Marijuana has greatly improved my life. Now i should go ahead and say if i let it happen, it could very easily consume me. i smoke one time a day unless im hurting, which is right before i go to sleep. I feel as long as i dont feel the need to smoke through out the day, then im okay.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:07 pm 
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So I know this is an old ooooooold threat but it just seems like such a great thing to talk about and I like how liberal and understanding the posters have been of our differences as addicts while still acknowledging some if our universal tendencies and struggles. So just in case anyone checks back up on this I wanted to chime in.

I agree with everyone on here in the sense that we're not all the same. I think there's absolutely a lot of addicts out there who cannot use any substance and have it be no big thang, some people need the extreme discipline. However, I think it's way less than we think. Or way less than it's thought in popular/public opinion anyway. I think a lot of those people are in NA and not on MAT, and it's that way for them either because they really are wired that way, or it becomes true over time as they've dedicated themselves to the program and deeply accepted the NA gospel that full abstinence is the only way, the program is the only way and if they step outside that they'll relapse, until that's exactly what happens if they've internalized it to such a depth. These are only theories.
But I believe there are addicts that can handle it. As long as it's not recreational use of their DOC or something in the same drug family. I can smoke weed, and I can't even do it during daylight because it makes me tired and upon coming down I still just feel so out of it and fatigued, and it makes me unhappy. Even if I have nothing I need to do that day, no obligation to leave the house or anything, it just makes me regret it for that reason so it can only be after it's gotten dark outside, otherwise it just feels terribly unnatural. Drinking for me is funny. I like to drink, but less and less as I've gotten a little older. I drank in high school with friends, to excess at times but never to addiction. I'm also okay with it because with me being someone who (like with weed) doesn't like to lose that lucidity during the daytime, and now at this point in my life enjoys the lucidity more than drinking at night even, it's one of those things that's least likely for me to make a habit of. I think sub might have something to do with the way I've been feeling in the last year idk sometimes people want me to drink with them and I'm just like noooo I don't feel like it, I've just wanted to less and less. Especially when it feels like effort, it's hard to explain but I need to be in a pretty energized frame of mind or group setting to enjoy drinking, because it just feels like I get full so fast which isn't encouraging, and it sorta tiring? Idk. So I really drink pretty rarely now mostly just on special occasions.

And I agree that one should be vigilant, because addictions can transfer and that it's about monitoring level of obsession, and making sure you aren't displaying addictive behaviors more than anything. But I think there's a lot of judgement on this subject out there and I wish more people could understand that drug addict doesn't always mean "whatever I can get my hands on".


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:54 am 
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Truth in the last post... To be honestmost people I know who went down our path was because they really didn't like alcohol


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