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 Post subject: MASSIVE HABBIT
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:07 pm 
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Hello, I am new to this sight and i am so glad i found it. I really need some help. First i will tell you a little about myself. I had a drug addiction in the past and i was on suboxone successfully for over 5 years. No slips. before I got it right i had some slips and have gone through induction like 15 times. Durring my 5 years i built up a pretty nice life. Unfortunately i screwed up. This time around i had a virtual unlimited cash supply saved up and some very easy access to drugs. I started with oxycodone 30's and i took as many as i wanted and i got bad very fast. Soon i was taking almost 100 per day IV. The matter how many i took it did not get me high and i was spending to much money so i switched to heroin. I am doing about 50 bags of good NY dope IV a day and it is no longer getting me high. It has only been a few months but with an endless cash and drug supply i have gotten so bad so fast. I desperately need to get back on suboxone. I do not have a doctor but i have a large stock pile of suboxone. I am very worried about induction because of how bad my habit is. I have seen stories online about people on large doses of methadone switching to suboxone but not large doses of short acting opiates. I am wondering about how long i will have to be abstinent before i switch to subs. Usually they say about 24 hours. I think because of my habbit it should be longer though. My plan is to bring a friend to watch after me and get a hotel room somewhere. i have clonadine and xanex to make my detox slightly more tollerable and i will induce in the hotel room. I will take a large amount of xanex so i don't feel so bad. I am terrified because since i have screwed up, i have not been sick. I have stayed high the whole time because i am so affraid of the sickness. Does anyone know how long i should wait before taking the suboxone? is 24 hours ok because what i have been taking is short acting or is my habit so bad that i must wait longer? Also, i am not worried about becoming addicted to the xanex. I hate that stuff, i just think it may make my transition easier. Thank you in advance and i look forward to your replies.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:24 pm 
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Hi grimhold and welcome. I would STRONGLY suggest you induce under a doctor's care. You mentionned "large amounts of xanex", which can be fatal when combined with Suboxone. You are correct in suspecting that induction might be difficult because of the high doses you have been using. You might still experience some withdrawals even on the max dose of sub, but hopefully the Sub will make it bearable. I know herion isn't a drug that is typically tapered, but you might want to drastically reduce the amount you use for a couple of days before induction. As far as the timing goes, it's really the severity of the withdrawals and not a certain amount of time that determines when you can start. You can google the COWS scale to help determine the stage of withdrawal you are in. But again, this is where a doctor can guide you.

I wish you the best of luck. There is a lot of information and support on this forum. Please keep posting and let us know how your induction goes.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:40 pm 
This forum isnt about pissing contests so I dont get why you would embelish your habit, sorry but I dont believe you shoot 100,30mg oxys daily or 50 bags of "good dope" and if you do then the dope isnt good hah. :roll: Not trying to stir shit up but I dont buy it sorry. Shooting a 100 pills into your arm daily would almost undoubtedly destroy your veins and cause serious complications. Good luck inducting from your "massive habit"


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:54 pm 
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Like Lilly said, don't focus on how long you've been withdrawing, but rather how bad the withdrawals are. It would obviously be best if you could induce under the care of a doctor, but if for whatever reason that's not possible, you will definitely need the COWS scale (you can find it here: http://www.pharmacypracticenews.com/download/cows.pdf).

Long-acting meds like methadone can make induction a bit more tricky, because it stays in your system longer. But it's much more straight-forward when you're using short-acting ones. There are tons of people with HUGE, I mean HUGE, habits (as bad or worse than yours) that induced with no problems at all and were able to stabilize on a fairly reasonable dose, some as low as 8 mg. You won't know until your induction what amount/dose of sub you'll need - that's where a doctor can be very helpful.

Just remember to wait long enough so you don't have precipitated withdrawals and then wait a couple of hours between each sub dose. You'll be looking for the dose that stops the withdrawals AND the cravings. There's no set guidelines for how to induce, each doctor is different. I hate to be a broken record, but again, that's why it's really best to have the doctor guide your induction. Are you sure you can't get in with a doctor to do this? Have you started making calls looking for a sub doctor yet? What about your previous sub doctor?

Lastly, just know that I'm not a doctor or medical/addiction professional of any kind. This is based solely on what I've learned about sub and addiction in the last 2+ years. I'm sure others will chime in with their thoughts.

Oh! And welcome to the forum! Keep us posted on how you're doing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:00 pm 
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suboxOWNED: why would you talk to me like that? this forum is suposed to be about helping people, not putting them down. If i was embelishing my habbit i would not be so worried. I am already ashamed of how bad it got so fast and i am terrified. I am not looking to have an online arguement with someone. I am just looking to get back on suboxone and living my life. I was on 16mg for 5 years with no problems before this. It was just a back slide and i want to get back.

To the rest of you, thank you.
Unfortunately the last doctor that was giving me my suboxone was a south florida pain management doctor that took out of state patients and he got shut down like most of them are. he was a quack anyway. Most people that went to him were from kentucky and were in his oxy "taper" program. he gave them 180 30mg oxy's a month and tried to get them to take 1/2 a pill less every 6 months. Also, i do not have prescription coverage anymore but i have hundreds of suboxones. I just want to take what i have instead of paying 7$ a pill.
I know i can get stable on 16mg a day again, it is just the induction i am worried about. it has only been a few months that i have gotten to this point. When i went through induction before my habit was not half as bad and i was in agony for 3 days and then it took about a week to be pain free. I guess my thinking that the worse the habbit the longer i should wait is wrong. I just thought it took a couple days of cold turkey to get a habit low enough to be equal to what suboxone can equal. Why do people on 200mg of methadone wait 10 days to induce? surely it can not take 10 days to be in full withdrawl. That is what i do not understand.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:09 pm 
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Methadone is different because it has a very long half-life, on top of which you have the stacking effect of being on it regularly, so it takes MUCH longer to get it out of your system. A lot of methadone patients switching to suboxone are often taken off the methadone and put on a short-acting opiate like vics or oxys for a week or so, THEN they go from there on to suboxone. It's just so much easier to induce from a short acting opiate. What you've been using is short acting, has a much shorter half-life than methadone. Just make sure you use the COWS sheet to gauge how bad your withdrawals are.

Also, here are some of Dr. Junig's blog posts on the subject of induction. Hopefully that will help you out, too.

http://suboxonetalkzone.com/category/bu ... induction/

If you have more questions, just ask away. We'll try to answer them as best we can.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Everyone already gave you some good advice. I just wanted to support you and wish you the best.

Cherie

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Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:44 pm 
@grimhold I am a very supportive person to people on this forum but I dont bite my tongue when I dont agree with something for example that I dont beleive you. That said we'll just have to agree to disagree and I wont speak of it again. Regardless good luck getting on suboxone and I hope things work out for you and it can help you as much as its helped me and everyone else.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:48 pm 
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Suboxowned: dude, who am I in a pissing match with you? If you want to be a bigger looser be my guest. I'm not gona argue with someone abouthow I am a bigger scum bag junkie. Unfortunately its pretty easy to get where I'm at. I was on suboxone and not using when I had the brilliant idea to go to south florida and doctor shop and sell the pills. I saw 7 doctors and each one gave me 180-240 roxi 30s. Then I got some friends to see the same doctors. I got thousands and thousands of pills every month and made a shitload of. money. Then I screwed ip and started to get high again. I had an unlimited supply of pills. It started doing one at a time then 2 then 3 then 4. My habbit canonballed until a script of 180 only lasted me 2 days and I didn't sell any of them and I was blowing all the money I had saved to get scripts to do entirely myself. Its pretty discusting how bad a junkie can get when he has an unlimited suply of junk. I just have wanted to quit so bad but I kept putting it off because I knew induction would take a few days. I kept getting worse and worse and my fear of induction got worse and worse because I know the longer I go the harder its gona be. I haven't been sick in like 6 years. The 5 I was on suboxone and the last 4 or so months I have been using non stop. I'm so desperate and scared at this point. I got scared I would get arrested for doctor shopping or sellingso I stopped getting pills and selling and I just started buying large amounts of dope. I started to get 10 bundles in hopes it would last me a week and it only lasted me 3 days. Then it went even faster. You see suboxowned, I'm not a liar, I'm just scared and a pathetic junkie. I messed up,
All of the above is a big lie. It is nothing more then a creative writing excersise.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:55 pm 
Dude stop explaining yourself to me you have nothing to prove to me I am just some random person on the internet. Good luck with the subs.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:28 am 
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First off welcome to the forum. I am very happy you are stepping away from the hell you have been going thru. The good news is I think your going to be fine. Like some have already said your not jumping from methadone which has a very long half life and some have reported taking 6 to 10 days of w/d before inducting. You are jumping from a short acting opiate but like you said..... and a very massive habit.

The good news is you have the COWS scale and a friend with you plus time........When I inducted I was told to be in moderate w/d. I would think that with the amount you take daily you may not have to wait 24 hours. Remember the key is moderate wd. If you take too soon you will go into Precipitated W/D which will make you feel like your dying. I was so worried about that...I waited 48 hours before inducting. I was thinking with the habit you have and having that COWS scale in hand you may not need the xanax as someone reported and you probably already know can cause respitory issues. It's good you have access to the medicine since there is no reason to be in that much discomfort if you don't have to be. You will know very soon as a former sub patient that in 45 minutes or so you will start to feel a whole lot better. If you feel terrible then you may have taken it too soon.

My guess is you know yourself better than anyone and you will know when it is time to take your sub. I am not a doctor just an addict on suboxone for the last 22 months. When I read your story I couldn't help but relate if I had the funds and the supply what would I do........You have a second chance here ....that in itself is a miracle. Let us know how you make out. Good luck.

Jim


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:53 am 
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I'm not here to judge and I too can only imagine what I would have done with unlimited supply and unlimited funds. As it was with unlimited funds, I used every pill I could get my hands on and that wasn't enough so given time and money and supply, who knows what one could do. It's easy to increase on oxy. You get used to it pretty fast.

Like ReRaise said, you have a second chance here and I hope you really do use it. You have support here.

I also know what it is like to be desperate, find a site like this, and then feel attacked right off the bat. It sucks because you have no one and need the people here to help you out. So, just ignore it for now, do what you have to do for yourself, and come back so you have some kind of support.

Bottom line, you need help. You will get it here. I hope everything goes ok.

Cherie

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Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

- Winston Churchill


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:07 am 
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GOOD LUCK my friend. Do not listen to the negativity. YOU CAN DO IT!!! YOU DID IT BEFORE!!!! keep us posted and just ignore all negativity and you will be successful!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:07 am 
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Thanks for all your support. I just want to get back to my life as soon as possible. Thanks guys! I am starting induction. not yet sick but we will see.


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 Post subject: gift of desperation
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:36 am 
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I just wanted to jump in and wish u the best, I am in a similar situation as far as trying to get back on my subs. I suffered thru 2 P. Wd's in the past couple months in trying to do so. I was doing around 4 grams a day, i used my buisness as a piggybank and have exhausted all of my resources financially, it has come to a grinding hault for me as i am desperatley trying to save the things i have aquired the past few yrs. It pisses me off people have the nerve to judge eachother or claim one is lying about there habit. I just don't understand why one would lie about it, sure I'm sure we all have exaggerated once or twice throughout the yrs but shit, if u have found this site, and have been desperate enough to call out for help from a Damn computer screen I would fairly agree that this person would have no reason to lie about how much shit they r using... as if its kool to have a much higher tolerence then the next guy? WACK..... Keep ur head up, take what u need and leave the rest of the bullshit for the artist who creates it. As i said i did go into P. WD twice and it was maybe the worst feeling and expierence ive ever had, one of the times i waited 18 hrs!!!! and that still wasnt deep enough into my Wd, so it can be tricky. Of coarse i would start feeling the start of my symtoms within just 5 to 6 hrs of no shot, but i can only suggest to hold on as long as u possiably can before inducing, I have successfully induced since then and did it by switching over to Oxycodone for 2 days, after my last 60 mg dose i beleive i was safely deep enough into Wd after only about 8 hrs and everything went smoothsailing from there. I will say its not so comfortable switching to the oxy when ur doin 4 G's/day, i maintained at around 180mgs if i remember correctly, but it did take my RLS away which is mainly the only thing i worry about in my WD. Just remember its far more worth waiting that extra time in mild agony, than to risk P'wd! I hope all the best for u and keep us posted.......Peace


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:53 pm 
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i wanted to sasy good luck. i know the cycle is hard to break especially with unlimited funds. I went through the same thing in terms of oxy. I live in kentucky which is a big part of the pill pipeline and there were always people driving to florida to go to those one stop pain clinics. I understand having dealers all over and unlimited funds. I hope that everything works as smoothly as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: gift of desperation
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:23 pm 
DANNYB24K wrote:
I just don't understand why one would lie about it, sure I'm sure we all have exaggerated once or twice throughout the yrs but shit, if u have found this site, and have been desperate enough to call out for help from a Damn computer screen I would fairly agree that this person would have no reason to lie about how much shit they r using... as if its kool to have a much higher tolerence then the next guy? WACK.....
I dont care if I pissed you off. What I quoted and marked in bold letters is the exact reason I called him out on his (Im my opinion) big exaggeration. You are right it is NOT cool to have a bigger tolerance or use more than someone else. I just wish I never would of said anything about it, all I meant anyway was that if you shot 100 30mg oxys or a 100 pills of anything into your arm daily your veins would be destroyed and you would likely die of complications in a pretty short time like blood clots and the like. The only other thing I said was in reference to him saying "I shoot 50 bags of good dope" a day too which I said was if you are shooting 50 bags of H a day its not good dope lol


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:04 pm 
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DANNYB24K- I am newly inducted on suboxone and have been reading this forum extensively for the last ten days or so.
I am becoming familiar with many of the regular posters, and have noticed that suboxOWNED has a knack for spotting
the kind of exaggeration / bullshit most addicts are prone to, especially when speaking of their using days. However this forum is not about glamorizing our abuse of opiates. I believe suboxOWNED when he says his intention was to call the poster's bluff on how much dope he has been using. Maybe this guy isn't even aware of how outrageous his claims sound.
Could be he needs to stop and think about it, because we all need to deal with reality now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:41 pm 
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It could be and I believe everyone's opinion is valuable even when they differ drastically. This is why I also think it is important to note that the original poster may also just need support in getting sober without being called out as a liar and that when coming to a new site for help, it might be better if people wait a while to embarass, call out, or otherwise generate conflict. I mean.....what if the person doesn't feel welcome, leaves, and then keeps using and feels they have no where to go to get support or help and they die; was it really worth it then?

Personally, I prefer a softer approach with people until they have at least gotten ON suboxone. Again, I think there is room for multiple opinions.

Cherie

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Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:51 pm 
Thats fine with me im not gonna say anything else about it, Im not even sure how much longer Im gonna stick around this forum, I like alot of people here but things aren't realy working out great with suboxone for me as they havent been for awhile now and me sitting on a forum obsessing over suboxone and suboxone treatment daily is making it even more difficult. I may have been accepted to the patient assistance program got a call from the nurse yesterday which is one good thing going in my favor with suboxone but since I "got accepted" four months ago and was jerked around for months on end only to find out I in fact was not accepted because all the slots have been filled Im not getting my hopes up this time. Anyways sorry for being disruptive I wont be posting in this thread anymore I dont wanna get anyone upset.


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