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 Post subject: MAD at myself!
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:33 am 
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Location: I live in GA but my roots are in WI
AAARRRGH! I was doing so well at 1mg for the last week or so but this morning I did 2 mg!!! I wasn't feeling well and I GAVE IN! I took another 1 mg dose! I hate the addict inside! Can't even deal with slight(and I mean slight!) W/Ds!!! Anyone care to coddle me and tell me it's OK??
on the bright side! TGIF and payday!!
Will get back on the horse and try again..
maybe skipping a day will help get me back where I wanna be??
Hugs to all
G44


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 Post subject: Happy Friday!
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:40 am 
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Good morning Ginger44,

Yeah, I think you are being a little hard on yourself. You know, if the addict inside of you is acting up, maybe you are not quite ready to taper all the way off yet.
I think because you took it, you needed it, or some part of you did, even if it was the "addict inside of you". Tomorrow is another day, and you can try again. Try and enjoy the rest of your day, you didn't really blow anything. 2 mg is awesome by the way, you are doing great! How long were you on 1 mg for? I'm not anywhere close to tapering off yet.

Take care!
Ginger61


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:53 am 
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HI! I have to agree with G61 in that even 2mgs is awesome. But, I get why you are upset with yourself. Im down to 8mgs (from 16mg's) and I have my days where I just don't feel that great and take 12mgs and feel the same way about it. What's done is done though and you can't change it, only learn from it. And honestly, I think you are doing great. Don't be so hard on yourself. Are you on a maintenance dose of 1mg or are you tapering from a larger dose?

Keep your head up!


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:25 am 
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Forgive me for not remembering if you're tapering off or just down? I agree wholeheartedly with the others, please give yourself a break. I believe the harder we are on ourselves the worse we tend to feel. So just let it go and start a new day. Seriously, 2 mg is terrific...You're doing great. Hang in there and put down that bat you've been hitting yourself with! :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:25 pm 
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Beating yourself up is counterproductive. It feeds a negative cycle of behavior that has no good outcome....

We beat ourselves up because we screw up then we screw up because we beat ourselves up.

Take yourself off the whipping post and recognize the FACT that you are doing something to take care of yourself. We all make mistakes, and we all have missteps. The key is dusting yourself off, getting up and moving FORWARD in your recovery, not backward.

Hope you are well. Here's a hug for ya: (((((((((((((((((((((((ginger44))))))))))))))))))))) :)


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:02 pm 
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Don't Vex!!! You're doing great!!

It takes a while sometimes for the cumulative effects of a decrease to catch up with you-- which is probably why you experienced some sort of craving for more. If anything, you should at least feel better for the next few days. Remember: we don't get extra points for suffering!!

My best advice is to try to dose again tomorrow at 1mg, since there will still be more Sub in your system from the extra you just took. While I was tapering, I often had to take an extra little piece here and there: usually in late afternoon or evening. It seems the lower I got (like, doses at/under .8mgs/day) the greater the need for split dosing (that's dosing twice a day).

If you don't feel better in a day or two, another option is to consider taking a dose of .5 or .25 in the evening. You can continue to taper by lowering the morning dose, and keeping the evening dose the same to help with sleep. There's a lot of information about what has worked for me and others while tapering in the Liquid Taper Thread.

Going from 2mgs to 1mg was a little tough for me, as the decreases before that seemed to be so easy. In fact, I felt that decrease more than any other during my taper, even my jump was only a tenth of the WD from that. So if you can handle the WD now, you may find some comfort in knowing that it only gets lighter and easier. IF YOU GO SLOW AND TAPER LOW!

Finding a comfortable tapering rate may require you to continue to slow down, so please be patient with yourself. You are almost stable on only 1mg!!!!!!! That is AWESOME progress!! Think about how much you used to take....See? You ARE still on track. Just maybe moving a tiny bit too quickly? No big deal, just don't flip out and take the whole bottle or anything LOL.

Post or PM me if you need to talk or have any tapering questions. We are all here for you and are proud of your progress. We all know how difficult this process can feel.

AM


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:02 pm 
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I don't have any "real" direct experience in tapering so I can't personally relate to what you are going through. Now I have dropped from my starting dose of 16 mg to my current dose of 10 mg but I suspect that is far different than when I will get to the lower doses. So, I don't have direct experience. I do, however, have a large interest in this area and have read all that I can on it. Hopefully my thoughts may help a bit.

1. The more I see and read, the more I find that the "magic number" for many people is 4 mg. It seems like the great majority go from, for example, 16mg down to 12 mg without feeling much if anything. It seems that once someone gets to 4 mg is when they start to feel more with their taper.

2. It also seems like 2 mg is the point that even smaller decreases need to be incorporated and the real serious taper begins. Reading that Annemarie had her worst discomfort when she dropped from 2mg to 1mg makes total sense to me. What she effectively did was cut her dose in half! Cutting in half may work at really high doses, but again, when under 4 mg, it seems way too large of a drop. After cutting her dose in half and getting down to 1mg, I'm betting the next drops were smaller percentage-wise and therefore were not felt nearly as much.

3. Taking a one-time additional dose is not as much of an increase a you may think it is. If you have taken 1mg daily for, lets say, one week, your total dose for the week was 7 mg. If you added an additional milligram one day of the week, your total is only 8mg. Yeah, you doubled your dose for the day, but over a longer time-frame you only increased it by about 15%.

4. Just like Annemarie points out, it seems like moving to twice daily dosing when the dose gets to the one or two milligram range is a good idea. This was just talked about on another thread as well and seems to be supported by what little informed experts within the medical community that we have. While at high doses, dosing once a day seems more than adequate, but again things really start to change when you get under 4 mg and especially down at 2 mg.

5. It seems to be increasingly clear that the lower you go, the slower you have to take things and the smaller each reduction needs to be. The fast and quick drops seem fine until, once again, that 4 mg range and then slow and gradual seems to be the ticket.

I'd love to hear from others who have actually gone through this. Do my thoughts (guesses) above ring true to you? Do they make sense? Since we have no real research or science to guide us, the best we can do is hear from as many people who have gone through this as possible.

So, don't beat yourself up over this single dose increase. You may also want to give some thought to split day dosing and I would also suggest you start reducing by small amounts from this point forward - 0.1mg reductions are not at all too small for you to consider.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:19 pm 
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Donh, you just described my taper experience perfectly.

Here's how my taper plan went:

12/08 = 16mg
01/09 = 12mg
02/09 = 11mg
03/09 = 10mg
04/09 = 09mg
05/09 = 08mg
06/09 = 07mg
07/09 = 06mg
08/09 = 06mg (we held at 6mg because I thought I might have to go on Chemo for my HepC
09/09 = 05mg (luckily, it was determined that I do not need Chemo at this time, so reduction continued)
10/09 = 04mg (this is where I started feeling not quite myself....)
11/09 = 03mg
12/09 = 02mg
01/10 = 01mg (really, really feeling strong depression, lethargy, cramps, mood swings, etc)
02/10 = .5mg (felt absolutely horrible)

At this point, I was very close to using again so I called my doctor, he told me to come in immediately. We decided to put me back up to 4mg, which seemed to work for about 60 days, but I was still having fairly frequent cravings and thoughts of using, again, I called the doctor, he said come in, and we decided, given my long history of opiate abuse and my Hep C condition, I am a prime candidate for long-term ORT and we've settled on 8mg, which seems to be working ok so far.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:53 pm 
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Here's the thing.... going up a little one single day doesn't really set you back. You shouldn't worry about it. The key to tapering off subs or down on subs is giving your brain time to heal. Lots of time. I'm down to .1 mg's a day. Yep. .1. The last week or so I went up a bit. I'm not getting used to .15 all the sudden. It's just that I started to feel depressed from the PAWS and needed a little more. This week I'm back down to .1mg and below and feeling great. Just feel good on the least amount you can and it will take care of itself.


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:51 pm 
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THANK YOU ALL!
I SOOOOO appreciate the comments you all sent in regards to my TEMPORARY lapse in tapering. I did fine today. Kept busy and tried not to be so hard on myself( I AM my own worst enemy, ya know??) Tomorrow is another day, and I can always re adjust..so thanks again and know that I am so grateful to recieve your help and concern!! I feel no craving for my DOC BTW..just felt like I was going down too fast..and maybe I was. I have been tapering to go off completely. I went from 2 mg to 1 mg within a week...too fast, IMO. My body wasn't ready. Nor my mind...
Will try again...
HUGS to all!!
G44


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:48 am 
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I wouldn't look at it as a setback since I have some taper xperience. Somedays I felt so shitty I just had to take some more to be ok. Just take it slow. 2mg is OK. You'll definitely feel better with lower doses after the initial discomfort. I know I do :) Don't risk a relapse though if you're not ready to be on such a low dose. My best wishes!

Hawker1>> 0.1mg buprenorphine? That's nice to hear... I've tried to stop bupe for good but after 12days I relapsed back on it.Jeeezuz WD would never stop and I grow tired of it. Not to discourage anyone, WD isn't that hard as it is tiresome and persistent, and everybody is different about going trough WD. I'm currently taking 0.1mg (thats liqud measure, since it's really only a tiny tiny crumb). I mainly take it to suppress WD from occuring, but 0.1mg can't hold me for long... After aprox 5hours I think, after my dose, I start feeling the onset of some mild WD, but I'm content so far with this dose. With some time, I'll try stopping again. I'm just curious about your story, how long have you been on such a small dose? Are you trying to quit or are you just maintaining that dose?


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