It is currently Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:55 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:09 am 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:35 am
Posts: 1
This is an issue that is absolutely obvious and, unfortunately, based on greed and the desire to not have successful results.

The taper process should be gradual and it does not STOP at 2 mg strip. This is a terrible and unethical practice of once again a potentially very good (almost perfect other than the Netherlands Method, weaning off the substance that was used). If they would provide the necessary changes in dosing, it would be by far the best.

I am not 100% sure if this has been brought up,but it is not a joking matter! THERE SHOULD BE A .01 MG STRIP EVEN!

Either way I believe strength in numbers is the only way to get stuff done in this political whirlpool of released meds that are later recalled after several deaths and the Big Pharms end up paying out 1/500th of the net profit made. It is a sick and twisted system.

But I digress. I know, Medically speaking, that there should be a much more gradual taper. People who are opioid naive or first timers DIE from 2 mg strip. It even says so RIGHT IN THE INSERT.

HOW CAN THEY GET AWAY WITH THIS? It claims in plain English that people should not take for pain relief/analgesic due to the fact that people have died when not neon previous users of an opioid. But then you are supposed to come off of a 2 mg dose and be fine and dandy.

I think I was taking specs of the original subs prior to strips that maybe were .25...


That's not right. Anyone else see this as a conflict and a disgusting lack of education/initiative?

Thanks and good luck to everyone who is in the process.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:48 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 3:46 pm
Posts: 457
Location: South Florida
I wish they made a taper kit or something like that but I was able to use a razor blade, magnifying glasses and patience to cut 2 mg films down to ~.007mg pieces at the end of my taper which I would even then cut in half to dose 2x per day. I did a very gradual taper this way over about 20 months. I actually had only one 2mg film at the end which lasted me months. Most of my taper was done with 8mg films and the same method, I got 8mg films cut to at least .125mg or less.

It's time consuming though!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:35 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2426
Location: Tennessee
I definitely think there should be a better way for those ppl who are tapering and needing smaller doses. I wonder why they haven't done that yet... I haven't tapered down to low doses yet but I know it'll be a pain in the butt measuring out doses if I ever did.

The thing about a taper kit is exactly what I first thought of!! Great minds think alike :)

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:08 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:40 pm
Posts: 658
Hey Learned,

Welcome. Interesting post!

Yep folks have long wanted pre-made small to micro dose sizes. Imo, there's such a bad stigma toward addiction and MAT w no real interest yet in creating these needed doses. Just this morning, I read a newsletter concerned of the moral decline of America's youth, with examples at our nations college campuses - increasing addiction, sense of entitlement to unearned good grades, increased sexual misconduct/rape... Clearly addiction continues to be seen as a moral defect and not as a disease. Hopefully that will change.

As to the bup danger to opiate naive, for that reason, folks, especially w kids, hide/lock up their bup.

For the danger comparison of opiate naive trying 2 mg versus the opiate tolerant stopping at 2 mg, imo, they are very different but above my ability to explain naive vs tolerant. Hopefully others can pipe in.

I agree tho, that for some/many, 2 mg can be a hard jump dose. And agree that pre-made taper doses would be grand !!

_________________
Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:16 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:40 pm
Posts: 658
Glen bee,

I am most interested in your taper comments! I've read many of your other posts and they are quite helpful!! I hope you will consider posting a summary of your path to bup, time on it, decision to stop and then specific details of your taper. Looks like you've been off bup ~1.5yrs? I feel certain it would be most helpful!! Best. Pelican

_________________
Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:14 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 3:46 pm
Posts: 457
Location: South Florida
Pelican wrote:
Glen bee,

I am most interested in your taper comments! I've read many of your other posts and they are quite helpful!! I hope you will consider posting a summary of your path to bup, time on it, decision to stop and then specific details of your taper. Looks like you've been off bup ~1.5yrs? I feel certain it would be most helpful!! Best. Pelican


I'm going to do it I swear! LOL.

The short version is: Suboxone was the only thing that worked for me to get off opiates. (I strongly believe it helped me quit alcohol as well which was also out of control). It gave me a few years to learn how to change the way I think/act and form a 'personal recovery program' that helps me stay happy and sane without substances. Suboxone works better when you accept it as if it were another daily med like for blood pressure or heartburn and don't obsess over it. A change happened after a few years were the idea of tapering was not scary like it was in the beginning. Tapering at a rate where you feel very little discomfort is possible even at the jumping point. It took a long time but there's no need to rush. None of it was planned for me; I listened to my body the whole time including the day I jumped. That way I had no deadlines to 'pass' or 'fail'.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:23 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:40 pm
Posts: 658
GB,

Wow, several statements you made really jumped out and were the same for me. Look forward to more info from you! P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:46 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:03 pm
Posts: 1546
I would like there to be smaller doses for the sake of tapering, but I understand why there are no smaller doses or taper kits. Understand that doses of medications have to approved by the FDA-- and there is no medical reason to taper OFF buprenorphine. At the Federal level, they know the truth-- that the relapse rate after medication-assisted treatment of opioid dependence is very high. So there is no way to conduct 'safety studies' to taper off buprenorphine.

And at the same time, inductions are usually done starting with 4 mg of buprenorphine, according to TIP 43-- the guideline for buprenorphine treatment put out by SAMHSA, which is a Federal agency. So there is no need for smaller doses from the induction standpoint.

I have written on my blog about the idea of a taper kit, and I've assumed that such a kit would be a profitable endeavor for a pharmaceutical company. But I realize that a taper kit would only make it easier for people to do something that is ultimately harmful for them-- and I suspect that is the main reason nobody has moved in that direction.

I understand, of course, that this forum that I started years ago to provide information about buprenorphine has become a place where many people discuss tapering off the medication. I even refer my own patients to this site when they start the tapering process. But people really need to understand that stopping buprenorphine after less than a year almost ALWAYS leads to relapse. That fact has been supported by multiple studies, with or without counseling. EVERY patient who decides to taper KNOWS that he/she will never use opioids again... but over 95% of those people are WRONG.

It is much safer to stay on buprenorphine for an extra year, than to hurry off the medication.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:44 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Posts: 23
Here's my concern or question about 2mg being the lowest does available....

What about the people who START on a low dose(4mg-2mg) to beginning with? How do they tapper off, when ready??

I know this post is a few months old maybe things have changed sense April???

Thanks & hope everyone is doing well


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:01 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 8:56 am
Posts: 78
Hi all,

If you have ever seen my posts I'm always going on about how in australia you need to go to a chemist twice weekly to pick up suboxone - which is a pain and really restrictive.

However in oz you can go onto bupe after the 2mgs of suboxone - they give you 4 .4mg tablets to take under the tounge for an 8 week course only. Decreasing by. 4mgs fortnightly, after the 8 weeks you jump from .4mgs of bupe.

This is something at least, even though I'd still have to go to my chemist twice a week, at least it's a reduction regime. I'm still very unsure about it. Saw my doc last night and he wants me to stay on 2mgs until November because I'll be moving house and he thinks that I'm getting my life under control, exercising, seeing mates, coping well at work, etc.

I honestly probably would stay on suboxone for life if they gave me scripts like they do for any other medications - monthly scripts for antidepressants etc. But because of having to be in the same place, revolving my life and work around the chemist and dosing at the chemist, I just want to be rid of it and have my freedom back.

That's my 2 cents worth anyway.

I hope everyone finds the right way for them :)

Manz


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:16 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2806
Location: Southwest
I've said it so many times before I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in this thread. What about using the Butrans Patch when you get down to low doses? That comes in 3 strengths I believe. 5, 10, & 20 micrograms. The patch is left on for week but can be left on longer to get as much medication out it as possible. There is another Buprenorphine product out there but you'll need to Google it to find information. These patches can be given out by any physician, not just a Suboxone approved one. The 20 mcg one kept me out of withdrawals when I stopped my Suboxone at 1 mg. The pain management doctor I was sent to wanted me off Suboxone and put me on that. Had I just kept using them to get down to 5 mcg's my w/d's might have been very low or even a no show.

It is one more tool to think about when tapering off IMO.

That's my 2ยข worth

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:26 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Posts: 23
Wow Rule that is pretty awesome info u just shared with us...the B Patch. I will definitely bring that up to my sub Dr on Monday.

U are off sub and on B patch with it pain mngt Dr? I assume it's working great on ur pain? U sound like u are in pretty much same shoes as me with chronic pain....can I add u as a friend? (Once I figure out how to do it.) LOL.
Anyway thanks for sharing ur experience and info.
Hope ur doing fabulous :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:02 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:34 pm
Posts: 614
Quote:
and there is no medical reason to taper OFF buprenorphine.


Well in the narrowest sense that's true, but of course there are good reasons....related to health and well being....to taper off. I'm by far the oldest guy I've seen at the several always crowded bupe clinics I've gone to in the last 4 or 5 years. I worry...with more cause than someone in their 20's say, about facing some sort of surgery.

I"ve been instructed to keep a photo copy of my prescription in wallet in case of accident so they'l know I likely would need fentanyl for any pain relief....


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:54 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2806
Location: Southwest
A little information correction is needed for AlwaysBlessed. Of course you can friend me but our situations are quite different. When I mentioned the pain doctor it was due to a previous surgery to remove a cancerous tumor. Being at only 1 mg at the time just before getting off it for surgery, my Suboxone doctor referred me to the pain clinic. They sucked! Being told that he didn't like Suboxone and wanted me off it was unprofessional IMO. I ended up going back to my doctor and asked to be put back on to 6 mg's. The reason for the bump up was because I received absolutely no pain relief from my surgery and was tired of feeling like crap. 6 mg's made me feel good again so I stayed there (without pain) until a few months ago when I decided to taper down again. Today I am on 3 mg's daily and will most likely go to 2 mgs for plain maintenance. Whether I get off it or not is something I cannot predict.

So no, I am not a pain patient but did get relief from the Butrans Patch. I used only one before going back onto Suboxone. For pain I take Aleve.

And yes, I am cancer free. Had my last round of radiation on April 4th 2012.

This is good that the Butran's Patch info came back up again. It also comes in a 5 mcg dose so that is a really low amount to jump from. Just leave the patch on for as long as possible.

rule

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:36 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:54 pm
Posts: 459
Congratulations Rule!! Life can throw us the darndest things at the worse times. Bravo Rule!!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group