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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:13 am 
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Yeah Sub definitely aint good for the testosterone.

What I found weird is that for myself and others I've known who have been on both methadone and Sub, Sub was worse for libido. Even some people on here who've switched from Sub to methadone have said they felt their libido return a bit. But studies have shown methadone has more of an impact on testosterone levels than Sub.... Weird.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:53 pm 
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Just an update for everyone. I felt great on the test for the first 3 weeks, then it seemed to poop out (probably as my own body completely stopped producing its own test around that time). At 6 weeks I had bloodwork, my test was still low, I also had estradiol, DHT, TSH, cortisol checked. Estradiol (aka estrogen) was not too high, test and free test were only slightly higher. My doc raised my dose to 3 pumps of Axiron a day. Unfortunately, the $25/month program for Axiron only applies to once monthly refills which is two pumps a day worth. So I paid out the nose for the bottle, talked to me doc, and got a script of Androgel which is 1.62% testosterone instead of 2% as Axiron is (the Androgel is covered quite nicely by my insurance with a 90 day supply from a mail order pharm being costing less than 1 bottle/20 days of Axiron). Anyway once I went up to 3 pumps Axiron, my I felt great. Had energy again, felt like a normal human being again. My libido came back somewhat, but not as much as I'd expected; the sub slams the libido pretty hard on its own independent of testosterone.
Anyway I'm due for another round of bloodwork shortly. We'll see where it's at now. My Axiron just ran out so I'll be switching to the Androgel too. Just as a point of reference, you are not supposed to put Axiron anywhere but the armpits. However, I learned that applying to the scrotum increases absorption from about 10% to 50%. It also increases DHT levels though and some Dr's believe high DHT enlarges the prostate (it also causes the hair to fall out). I wouldn't recommend doing it, but I was so frustrated at my low T levels I did do it on occasion.
I hate being dependent on ANOTHER medication to feel normal. I am fairly certain the sub caused my low T (as I mentioned I had normal T back in the morphine days). But the sub has saved my life, almost a year with no opiates and no cravings, so I'll just have to deal with it. But the way I felt before starting test replacement and after...I can't even describe. It's like being a whole new person. And had I gone to a psychiatrist they would've just said "you're depressed" and slammed me with anti-depressants, never dealing with the core issue.

One more point...a friend of mine (not on sub) was having issues with SUPER low testosterone, went on Axiron, felt great but didn't want to be on a med for the rest of his life. Plus being on test replacement makes you infertile (this will be a problem for me). So his savvy endrocrinologist put him on clomid 25mg a day and stopped the Axiron. It took two months but his testosterone is now TOO high!


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 Post subject: Another update
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:58 pm 
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For those following this thread I just wanted to post another update. I've been an Androgel for a while now; was on 3 pumps a day. Had my bloodwork done a few weeks back. My DHT is 4 times higher than the upper level of normal, my total test is 300 (normal 250 to 1000 or so) and my free is about 39 (normal 35 to 155 or so). So while still low at least it's getting into the normal range; but I like I told my Dr I still "felt it." So he asked if I'd like to go to test injections. I've read up and it seems the transdermals are more similar to your body's normal test variations and don't cause one big "spike" in testosterone every week or two. So I asked to go to 4 pumps a day of Androjel. Also the elevated DHT is associated with prostatic enlargement, and I have been noticing difficulty urinating.

So since then I've been doing 4 pumps a day and no longer putting it on my scrotum at all. And I feel GREAT! I feel alive again! Had I not taken it upon myself to ask for my T to be checked I would have just been prescribed more antidepressants, which wouldn't be working since the issue was hormonal. I finally no longer feel symptomatic for low T; I'm interested in my gorgeous wife, I wake up with "morning wood" every morning, I have energy to do things during the day and to work long hours. I can't believe what a difference it's made. The buprenorphine slammed my testosterone, and I am NOT getting off the bup, so replacing it with exogenous testosterone made sense. And it's working!

For the future I do want to have children so I'll have to stop at some point and switch to clomid to get my fertility back. But for now, supplementing with testosterone is working great.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Hey jb0nez,

Thanks for the update. So glad to hear you're doing much better! Just FYI, based on my husband's experience and what I've researched, you might want to have your doctor also keep an eye on your DHEA levels, because exogenous hormones can cause your endogenous hormones to do down. And low DHEA levels can give you a whole other batch of negative symptoms.

Good luck and again, glad you're feeling better. :)

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 Post subject: Testosterone
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Hey jb0nez,

It sounds like you found the solution to your problem finally. Funny how at your age you're experiencing this issue. I was in my low 50's when I started Sub and had the same low libido problem. Androgel solved it all and like you I felt like a teenager again. I too tried the Axiron and it didn't work at all for me so I Googled the Androgel site and they have a better coupon deal so check it out. I pay just a $10 copay with insurance instead of my usual $40. BTW, my numbers are around 640 now so it is a little high but my doctor said it's okay.

This is a common complaint about taking Suboxone with men, but at least we have the medical knowledge to treat it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:55 pm 
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stephent wrote:
Isn't Clomid something that people who go on Steroids take post cycle? I know baseball players have tested positive for it, often right before the season starts or right as it is starting (I am assuming coming off of summer steroid use)...
first off DHEA is completely useless.i've been an amatuer bodybuilder for nearly 20yrs.only thing that held me back was my severe heroin addiction.when i got clean,before the subs,my natty test was that of a prepubescent girl scout.i went on my own trt since i know more about "gear" than the average person.once i got into the sub thing my libido dropped fast.the more i took the worse it was,in the bed and in the gym.once i lowered the subs to a normal level and raised my test intake along with an androgenic like deca or eq the mass piled on fast.clomid is used mostly for pct.it's actually a weak form of estrogen much like nolvadex and binds to the estro receptors preventing the aromatizing exogenous test from binding to them but will not stop estro production.for that you would need arimidex or letrozole depending your dosage and frequency.you don't want to kill your estro,just control it.

clomid is also used during cycles for the same reason.it does somewhat help kickstart your natty test after a cycle but i prefer running Hcg.as far as androlgel...to me it's worthless.again depending on your goal.mine is to become huge and strong and gel doesn't cut it.i go right for the enth or cyp,once in a blue moon sustanon eod along with trenbolone.last year at a weight of 215lbs and under 10% bodyfat i hit my all time 1rm on flat bench of 447lbs...at 44yrs old.if it wasn't for the pnuemonia i caught i know 500 was only 5-6mnths away.

as of now i've not hit the gym since sept for personal reasons.depression,broken relationship,money all sapped my motivation but i will be back soon and will be onstage in the next 18-24mnths without a doubt,subs or no subs.it's these damn benzos that kill my drive for the iron but without them i'm a giant panic attack.

all opioids/ates will kill your natty test.just the way it is but it will return if the damage to your HPTA system isn't too great.don't forget,alot of us do more than just our doc and that has alot to do with it.for regular trt/hrt purposes,if you have to take it into your own hands and are not looking to bodybuild then 200-250mg every 10-14days is sufficient depending on the weight of the ester.shorter esters like prop,phenylprop,suspension or tne have shorter half lives and are not recommended.usually cypionate in the states and enanthate abroad are the norm.both nearly identical off by one molecule.the more you want out of it the more you must take but some guys take it to the extreme.i've been known to go as high as 3,000mg/wk while prepping for shows but the recovery,depending on the adrogenic used is usually hard to recover from like deca or tren.


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