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 Post subject: Lost on How Subs Help
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:17 am 
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I have been a junkie for 15 years, kicked habits numerous times, but in my personal opinion, and this is an opinion, I think subs are the methadone of the 2000's. If you really want to stop shooting dope than just don't fckn do it. I know my opinion is looked down upon, but I personally feel that if you just don't shoot dope, eat pills, or just fucking stop it tends to be easier. I know it does not mean shit but I am 6 months clean and, in my opinion, it's easier to not listen to the shrinks.......how 'bout this???

Just don't shoot dope

Edit: I'm leaving this post because the replies to it are so awesome and I want everyone to see an example of how NOT to post! -Amy


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:46 am 
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Hi Twisted by design,

I wish it were that easy. There are TONS of people in this forum and throughout the world who have tried over and over again to "just not take opiates anymore". If it were that easy there would be no need for life saving medications such as Suboxone and Methadone. Personally, I can't count the number of times I tried to just quit putting that pill in my mouth. I tried tapering, I tried quitting cold turkey, and I just couldn't do it. I might have a few days of success, and then I would be right back at it once the WD set in. I know there are people who have been able to stick it out and go through the WD. But not everybody can or will. The threat of losing my marriage wasn't even enough to stop me, and that is just about the worst consequence I can think of. I know for a fact that if I had not found suboxone, I would have lost my family and everything that I hold dear. And more than likely would have lost my life.

You said in reference to you being 6 months clean, "I know it doesn't mean shit." I would disagree with that. It's wonderful that you are clean...overcoming an addiction of so many years and being successful with it for that long is a HUGE thing. It's possible you could be of help to some members here who are at the end of their sub treatment and trying to taper or jump. However, you need to realize that most of us here don't view our time in suboxone therapy as a mistake or a bad decision. If you can respect that and avoid debating and stirring up trouble then you are welcome here.

This forum is meant to encourage and help those who are on a journey of recovery. Whatever way they decide is right for them. You must respect the choices of others without debating. I would encourage you to go back to the main page and re-read the rules of the forum.

Qhorsegal2,

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:26 am 
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Well said Q. It's all about CHOICES in the end. It's what each of us determines to be in our OWN best interest to save our lives, and be a productive member of society. If that means completely stopping our drug of choice and never picking up again then so be it. But if that means getting on bupe therapy for a short period of time, a longer period of time, or even for the rest of our lives then that's OUR DECISION to make, not anyone elses.

As I have said many times here and will say once more....Suboxone absolutely and without question saved my life. Without it there is no doubt whatsoever I would not have survived. Fact!

You have your right to your own opinion, but when it's suggested that everyone do it your way then that crosses the line this forum has been established for. QHorsegal's post is spot on. My time on Suboxone/Subutex was far from being a mistake!

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:09 am 
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I don't go on other people's forums and tell them all they're just doing it WRONG. Why the need to come here? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS CONCEPT.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:13 am 
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I'm about to be banned from a page on Facebook called "Recovery in Ohio" because ALL they do is argue when someone says the word Suboxone. They are not worried about Recovery, at all..they are worried about NA and the steps, and that's quite clear if you talk to some of them. They say they don't mind what a person does to get clean, but their posts suggest otherwise.

Telling people they are doing it wrong if they aren't doing it "a certain way" it potentially telling someone to die....I mean, you realize this kills people, right? And you want to tell someone that could possibly decide to live, versus dealing with the withdrawals that make you want to die...they should just "fuckin stop"??

hmm, sounds like an agenda.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:37 am 
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jonathanm1978 wrote:

Telling people they are doing it wrong if they aren't doing it "a certain way" it potentially telling someone to die....I mean, you realize this kills people, right? And you want to tell someone that could possibly decide to live, versus dealing with the withdrawals that make you want to die...they should just "fuckin stop"??hmm, sounds like an agenda.


I completely agree. If someone is staying alive and healthy, I don't go up to them and tell them they're just doing it all wrong. I don't go into NA meetings and say "All yall are just addicted to each other!" "Trading your addiction with classes!" If it's working for them, more power to them! Why pull a rug from underneath them? They think we're cheating. Taking the easy way out and it pisses them off. I just didn't know we were in a competition. When will a winner be crowned for "He Who Suffered The Most"? I thought staying alive was the game. I would feel horrible if I dissuaded anyone from staying alive.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:06 am 
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I can tell you how many people are still alive with thanks to Suboxone. Yes, you may call it the Methadone of 2000 of the magic medicine or whatever. Who cares what you call it. I call it a "Livesaver"

I tend to side on Addiction being a mental disease than a choice. But we can argue that all day long.

The main thing is to give people medicine that will help control their addiction. Some people might be able to just STOP. But some are too far down the rabbit hole. And we need medication to help make us be productive people. I'm included.

I will keep defending Suboxone because I am living proof that it can give you your life back.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:17 pm 
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Was methadone taken off the market or something? MMT is still going strong, THANK GOD! You speak derogatorily about it but methadone might be the ONLY option for some people who would otherwise live miserable lives until they die with nothing. How does it effect you one way or another? If you've been abstinent for whatever contradictory amount of time you claim, that's great, I've been clean for a long time on Suboxone and that's great too. My life ceased (almost unbelievably and ultra-quickly) being in shambles when I got on agonist therapy (methadone.) I got off it at one point a few years ago because I forgot why I went on it in the first place and guess what, my life was in shambles again very quickly. That was lesson enough for me, When I got on Suboxone a few years ago, I wrote a sticky note that says "If you're thinking of getting off of Suboxone, you're not thinking clearly."

If something more ideal comes around in the next few years I'd consider giving it a try. If I ever had serious chronic pain issues again that couldn't be handled on Suboxone, I'd switch to Methadone dosed multiple times for pain. So, unless you have some kind of inside track with Roxane labs or something, Methadone is the methadone if the 2000's.

You know the other thing is, us pro-suboxone people don't feel the need to go to abstinence websites with the regularity anti-MMT/BMT people come here and say "you're going to die, eventually complete abstinence and the steps will stop working for you at three years tops; you need to get on replacement therapy or you're not in real recovery." It just doesn't happen. Maybe because we're a happier lot, productive, receptors filled, on a stable dose. And don't say it's because we're too doped up to do it as much as some of us post around here!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:19 pm 
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TwinCitiesHardcore wrote:
Was methadone taken off the market or something? MMT is still going strong, THANK GOD! You speak derogatorily about it but methadone might be the ONLY option for some people who would otherwise live miserable lives until they die with nothing. How does it effect you one way or another? If you've been abstinent for whatever contradictory You know the other thing is, us pro-suboxone people don't feel the need to go to abstinence websites with the regularity anti-MMT/BMT people come here and say "you're going to die, eventually complete abstinence and the steps will stop working for you at three years tops; you need to get on replacement therapy or you're not in real recovery." It just doesn't happen. Maybe because we're a happier lot, productive, receptors filled, on a stable dose. And don't say it's because we're too doped up to do it as much as some of us post around here!


Good point!

Q

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:18 am 
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Nothing personal intended, but the comment to 'just choose to stop' makes even the most naive physicians seem insightful. I hear that comment from the docs who treat addiction, but who have never been there themselves. I wish nothing but sobriety or all who seek it-- and don't mean to pull the rug out from under anyone. But choosing to stop for 6 months wasn't my problem My worst relapse-- the one that took the most from me, and almost killed me--- happened after 7 years of good sobriety. It's sort of like the anti-terrorism dilemma---- you have to 'choose' to not use over and over, every minute of the rest of your life... whereas addiction simply needs you to choose the wrong way on one occasion. I know I'm good today---- but I don't know what my mental state will be like, the next time I get in a heated argument with someone important to me... and then stumble onto a box of IV fentanyl.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:12 am 
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I guess since I haven't had a hard relapse, I'm not clear on the possibilities...but I know for me, with Suboxone as a buffer, I have a hard time remembering what it felt like to be "high", or the euphoric buzz I felt when taking pills. I know I enjoyed it, and I know that it cost me a LOT more than it should've ever cost me, but for the life of me, I don't have moments where I crave that euphoria..and I would like to honestly see if anyone else has that same mindset? Do you guys, ones who did pills (up to and including oxycontin), have a hard time remembering the feeling? I know what it did, as far as making me go for days without sleep, without eating, and the fog I was in, but the enjoyment part...I just don't remember it well enough to have moments where I wish I could go back. Maybe it's my brains way of making sure I block the parts that would potentially cause me to relapse. I'm not sure...but to this day, I despise any pill that a doctor may try to give me that has opiates. I go in to dentists appointments, which are sometimes quite painful, and I refuse the pills he offers when I have extractions, because I don't want, or need them. And I've been very open about telling my dentist that I don't want the pills. First time he heard me say that, his jaw dropped...guess he was half expecting me to ask for something stronger, or more..but I just don't have the passion for it that I once had...and I know it's got to have something to do with the Suboxone, and of course, 5 years clean time.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:57 am 
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I don't know Jonathan...I still remember it well. But then again I only have a year and a half of clean time. I would like to think I will get there too.

As for me, I guess it's enough to have a healthy fear of what it would do to me if I ever felt it again. I have learned to live life without it, to some extent. And I am in the same boat with the whole dentist situation. Last year I went to a new one and the first thing I did was have them put it in my chart that I was an opiate addict and NEVER to give me any narcotic pain relievers.

But, all in all, I guess I'm still a work in progress. :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:52 am 
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Is it right to encourage someone who currently subscribes to the whole NA philosophy to take suboxone? For a physician, shouldn't he/she offer their patients every tool available? But, theoretically speaking, why is that not the same thing as a doctor who subscribes to the NA philosophy encouraging patients to get OFF suboxone?

In my opinion, it's not the same thing. I think suboxone and NA should work together. However, many NA members think they are in direct conflict. I have this conundrum with my mediation. I incorporate many Christian ideas into my Buddhist type meditation, but many Christians feel that's quite satanic. Well, here in the deep south that is.

So it's a matter of one ideology being all inclusive and one not so much?

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