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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:51 pm 
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this Christmas had to be the worst Christmas I ever had. A little background. The readers digest version.

When my daughter was 17 she got pregnant. I made her go to college so she would have a career instead of a job. While she worked her younger brothers, her dad & I watched the baby. I tried to make life less stressful for her so I did their laundry & babysat. She lived with me for 6 years and the baby lived with meg for 8 years. She is married now , owns a home, has a career & 2 other kids. 2weeks before Christmas she sends me a text that I ruined her life & she will never forgive me. Why, you ask...Because my granddaughter is to close to me! She is 33

My son gets a truly crazy girl pregnant, I end up with joint custody of my grandson at 5 months old. The court order says the baby (he is 22 months old) has to live with me & I have final say.
2 days before Christmas my son tells my daughter I am on sub & now I can't see any of her kids because she thinks I am high all the time. Why would my son tell her....because he is back with crazy & wants full custody so he wants his sister on his side. My son is also on bupe for an IV heroin addiction & a convicted felon for things he did while using

I am devastated & have been crying for days. My son will never have full custody & if he tells lies to the judge they will,put this baby in foster care

The judge is not thrilled with me because I am on sub. He also runs drug court & doesn't allow any maintenance.

I am just sick about all of this.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:26 pm 
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Hi Tiki,
I'm really sorry you're going through all this, it sounds heartbreaking :( . It sounds like your kids have a lot of their own issues, and you are totally powerless over what they say and do. You did right by your daughter & granddaughter and son & grandson. I'm sure your involvement benefitted and will continue to benefit your grandkids.

As far as what's going on right now you can only be honest that you are in recovery and only taking medication prescribed by a doctor. Right now you have a court order of physical custody, and I'm sure you can show that the baby has received good care. If you go to court any evidence you have that you've been in a recovery program, or a statement from your doctor can help. The judge may be against Sub, but judges are loathe to put children in foster care when there is an able family member available. (I used to work in juvenile court on custody issues). Is it juvenile court or probate court?

I know you're upset, but don't lose it. As of right now you still have custody, and things may work out the way they're supposed to. As far as the way your kids are treating you - that's why I'm in favor of support groups despite all of their shortcomings. AA/NA/Al-anon or other groups can help you keep the focus on taking care of YOU and letting go of family members' inappropriate behavior.

I wish you the best, and please keep us posted.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:46 pm 
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Tiki I am so sorry ur having a hard time right now!! It seems to me that ur children should be absolutely grateful to have a mother who unselfishly helped raise their children in their time of need. I can relate to ur story of the grandchild being closer to the grandmother because that's who they grew up with majority of the time. My oldest son has always stayed with my mom because I lived with her after he was born, so when I got remarried and moved he and her wanted him to stay. So I gave in and he stayed. He's seventeen years old now and even though he loves me dearly, he'll always be closer to my mom. I'm ok with that and I'm grateful to her for just loving him like she has. In the end, ur daughter should be just flat out grateful that u gave her that chance for an education and a better life for her and her children. As far as ur son, if not for u, his child would have possibly went to foster care if u hadn't stepped up like u did. And him being on sub himself, he knows ur not walking around high...good grief that makes me angry for u tiki!

The judge in my hometown views sub in a negative light also and it's extremely frustrating. Just keep being a good person tiki, like u are. In the end u will prevail by just being u. I know that doesn't help ur hurt feelings, but u can't please everybody and ur grandchildren is what matters and we all know they love u dearly for what u have done for them. Sometimes jealousy takes over but that's not ur problem.

Feel better and we're all here for u!!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:00 pm 
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Thank you both so much. I came back to delete the post. I just needed to vent.

Have to run. He is awake


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:12 pm 
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Your daughter and son are being truly despicable!! I can't believe they would do this to you when you have done so much to help them! Your two children have turned into spoiled entitled brats and I would love to give both of them a piece of my mind! I would shred their petty excuses and lies! Does your daughter think I am high because I'm on sub? I would like to see her try to keep up with me in grad school! Could I really be acing all of my classes while being high?? She truly disgusts me and so does your son!!!

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:45 pm 
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You didn't lose your family because of subs; you are at risk of losing access to your family because of ignorance. This is your chance to change opinions; to show and explain how your life has changed from how it used to be. Of course you don't want to expose your children to all of your personal history, as that is none of their business. But you deserve to be PROUD of yourself for what you have done-- not ashamed. Don't be too prideful, as people find that to be obnoxious... but carry yourself as a person who is not ashamed. People see shame, and make the assumption that the person SHOULD be ashamed. You shouldn't.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:16 pm 
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That would probably work with normal, non-narcissistic family members, Dr. Junig. Unfortunately, Tiki is dealing with some people who do not base their actions on what is reasonable and rational. It's not my place to reveal more than Tiki would want to reveal, but I have to say that she has sacrificed so much for her children and they do not appreciate it.

Of course, you are correct that they are ignorant, but in this case I would have to say that they are being willfully ignorant. And you are right that Tiki has nothing to be ashamed of.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:24 am 
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Thank you Amy & Dr J for taking time to post. I have always had a difficult relationship with my daughter. I got hooked on pain pills because of chronic pain after all my kids had moved out. I was trying to cover my emotional pain also.

My daughter was jealous & angry that I couldn't help her because I had a baby to take care of & I work full time. Funny thing is, about 6 months after I started sub she sent me a text saying I was like the old mom again.

My son has allot of problems & isn't working on recovery. I am still shocked & devastated that he told his sister these lies.

I know I am doing the right things. I see an addiction therapist, my sub doc is the director of a rehab & I take my medication as directed. I did ask for letters from my doctor & therapist. Other than that there is not much else I can do

Thank you all for the support!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:22 pm 
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Hey all, at Tiki's request I changed the title of her thread. She knows it's not the fault of her medication that her family is being terrible. If it shows that your post was edited by me, it's because I had to change all the titles individually to "Could lose family over their ignorance".

Amy

P.S. If I had to choose the title I would have gone with "Could lose family because they are selfish, narcissistic, stupid idiots."

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:08 pm 
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They're still her children, and I'm sure she loves them despite their behavior.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:56 pm 
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I am aware that Tiki loves her family members. :) Being a friend of hers, however, I get to stick up for her by saying impolite things about the people harming her.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:16 pm 
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AmY

Thank you for changing the title. Dr J is right. I did the best thing at the time to stop the craziness of addiction to pain pills. It may turn out to be a good thing now that the cat is out of the bag. There are many people like me that are my age & I always wanted a support group that wasn't 12 steps. Maybe in 2016 I will be able to build that group


Lily-thank you for the protective words. I do love my children but don't like them very much right now. I have always done to much for them & they are clearly ungrateful which hurts me.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:53 pm 
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Tiki, I LOVE the idea of a suboxone suppirt group! I looked to see if there was anything like it in my area and found nothing. I talked to my sub doctor about it and she said that she would mention it to others but her feeling was that most wanted to remain anonymous. I was so happy when I found this forum! Imagine if we could all meet at a diner for coffee! How great would that be! I have done a lot of work with families and it is my experience that unless someone is really mentally ill, things usually work out. As people become clean and/or gain more and more clean time, old issues get worked on or they just are not that important anymore. As long as the negative behavior is in the past, I always have hope for families to reconnect! I will say a prayer that it all works out for you and that you are able to have happy and healthy relationships with all of your children and grandchildren.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:29 am 
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Hang in there Tik,
You ve done so right by thoses two that someday they will see the real truth . Hopefully.

As you and have chated in the past, the one thing you must have for a group is, well people. People willing to come forward who want help or support. If you all are seeing a dr one on one this may be very hard to pull off.

The Bupe Groups of Recovery at our hospital /clinic continue to grow. Fed by four levels of clean time plus a ddu and IOP. 3 groups now. All started with the understanding that they would be run in s 12 step manor. This has changed the past few months with my drs knowledge. Weds still has a 12 step Type favor, but mondays and sats are now more sub ed type.
A few months ago Amy and I talked of a book, a book to guide groups like this. That Book that I use now is The Users Guide to Suboxone, written by our founder here. It is amazing how the "on the street" versions of just what Buprenorphine /suboxone is has spead. All members or new people who come must download the guide and many load the app as well. This is where the truth lies.
There have to be pockets of groups like this around the country. I knowJenn has one. So, if you want to get one going the best thing you can do is have your dr help. It takes work, and others have to want it but it is possible.

I know this, untill i found this forum 4 years ago I knew NOTHING about this med and type of recovery. Thank god for what all the members do here ..

Razor.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:03 am 
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suboxdoc wrote:
You didn't lose your family because of subs; you are at risk of losing access to your family because of ignorance. This is your chance to change opinions; to show and explain how your life has changed from how it used to be. Of course you don't want to expose your children to all of your personal history, as that is none of their business. But you deserve to be PROUD of yourself for what you have done-- not ashamed. Don't be too prideful, as people find that to be obnoxious... but carry yourself as a person who is not ashamed. People see shame, and make the assumption that the person SHOULD be ashamed. You shouldn't.

Good luck.




I agree with this post 100% ^^^ you should be proud of yourself, don't let their ignorance shame or guilt you into thinking you need to be embarrassed of your recovery!!

I also wanted to add that I, too, am involved in an ongoing custody case. If you don't have a lawyer already, get one. The first thing on their list when opposing counsel sent over the discovery was a request to my medical history. Including doctors, prescriptions, procedures, everything you can think of. My lawyer and I responded to the other various requests on the discovery, but he immediately filed a motion to seal my medical records.

Your personal medical history does not have to be admissible in court. Have your lawyer seal your records and your son or daughter, their lawyers, or whoever else will not be permitted to submit anything pertaining to medical history to the judge. They won't even be able to talk about it.

They may allude to it and submit past incidences of behavior while 'allegedy'' taking medications, but nothing official. It'll be hearsay. Do that and collect a few good character witnesses to go on stand for you and I think you'll be alright.

When given the option of a stable grandmother who happens to be in recovery, or foster care, I would hope any judge could see the answer is clear.

Good luck and I wish you well :)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:21 am 
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I just had another thought :) ... you may have grounds to have your lawyer file a motion to recuse that judge. If he's biased against you or 'not so thrilled', because of something outside the realm of this specific custody case... then that is not okay. His 'no maintenance' rule over at the drug court he's running has absolutely nothing to do with your family case. Preconceived notions and opinions about maintenance treatment renders him unfit to preside as he's unable to offer a just and fair trial.

Just some ideas to think about.... feel free to contact me if you'd like to discuss anything further :)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:40 pm 
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I agree with you guys about the Suboxone support group. The best support group I was ever involved in was a Sub group organized by my Sub doc. It wasn't 12-step, and we could talk about our personal issues, or issues specific to Sub.
It's my understanding that therapy is a legal requirement for those on maintenance (does anyone know if that's true? Or is it state by state?). Two of the Sub docs I had fulfilled that requirement by offering their own group therapy (men's & women's groups). I'm surprised more docs don't do that. Methadone clinics do it.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:13 pm 
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Lilly, I think that's true in at least a couple of states, but it's not a federal rule that I know of. Many sub doctors require meetings, though.

I have tentatively offered to start a group for my doctor's patients. He mentioned that there would have to be signed HIPPA waivers and such, but he didn't say it couldn't be done. I have mentioned this to Razor and others that there needs to be a curriculum of sorts or a guidebook written on starting a suboxone support group.

Amy

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