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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:28 am 
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So, I decided to give going under 8mgs a try again. I have tried it before but on the first day I always felt awful and said screw this. I went down to 4mgs yesterday and felt good. I had that point in the late afternoon where I felt crappy but I just laid down for 20 mins, and drank a lot of water and just pushed through it. Took the kids to the park and felt fine all through the night then. I was really surprised. So, I'm doing 4 mgs again today. I'm just afraid that tomorrow is when I'm really gonna feel it......
anyone else do that and feel it on the third day, or feel ok and have no issues? I guess 8mgs to 4mgs is kinda big jump.....

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:34 am 
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Because many people consider 4 mg to be right around the ceiling dose (at least as I understand it), you might be just fine and not feel a thing. Of course it just depends, everyone is different.

Good luck and let us know how you feel over the next couple of days.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:48 am 
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I personally very much agree with you that three days is the point at which I really feel things. I've had this discussion with several others on Sub and they agree as well. This has worked both ways. I originally started at 16 mg/day (which, by the way, in hindsight I think was too high of a dose for me) and then struggled a little bit in stepping down to my current dose of 8 mg. Regardless of what I did, it would seem that I would feel it three days later. When I went from 16 to 12 it would be on day three that I would feel the changes. If I would then take an extra amount, like clockwork, in three days I would feel extra tired and more sluggish - or it would be in three days where I could actually skip a dose. The same thing has continued through this day. In looking back, I really do feel that a lot of this was in my head. I don't think I've ever felt real, true, physical withdrawal symptoms - at least not even close to when I was in active addiction. That's not to say that I didn't feel it in my head though.

In the end, each drop took a couple of "tries". I never really would get to a lower dose for a couple of weeks and then go back up. Rather, I would end up with an extra dose a couple of times during my taper (often at the three day mark) and after a couple of those I would finally settle in at my new dose. I stayed at 12 for a while, then 10 and now at 8 where I am holding at for now to stabilize again. I don't know if this is good, bad or neither. It's just the way I did it.

Cutting your dose in half from where you are at might be a bit much. My plan is to drop to 6 mg when I feel I am ready for it. I won't try to go from 8 to half of that dose at 4. If you really struggle at 4 mg, you may want to give 6 a try for a while. While it only may be a 2 mg drop, it is 25% in terms of the dose reduction and that is quite a bit. Plus, as Hatmaker said, 4mg seems to be right at the ceiling level for many people. I can tell you that I have read comments from a large amount of Sub users who say that getting below 4 mg is where the real challenge is. You may be going from where your receptors are full to a level where they just start to have some openness again.

Good luck with your drop. Keep us posted with how it goes for you.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:10 pm 
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Wow, that's a big reduction IMHO. You cut your dose in half, I wouldn't be surprised if you feel that quite a bit. Hopefully it won't be too bad for you.

I am working my way down from 8mg to 6mg, where I intend to stay for a while. My ultimate goal is to find the lowest effective dose for me. It's not a money issue, it's a surgery issue. With my condition I have to have a liver biopsy every couple of years and it's a difficult week to stop the suboxone, go through the withdrawal, have the surgery, get opiates for a few days because of it, then stop taking the opiates long enough to start up the suboxone again. Not a fun roller coaster to be on, so that's why I am lowering my dose, plus, I'd like to go back to having sex with my wife once or twice a year :lol:

Just curious, RTL, but why are you tapering?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:50 pm 
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I never felt too bad lowering my dose until I was around 4 or 5 mg; however I never dropped more than 25%. Like junkie and donh have said that might be a bit much. Not saying it can't be done but you'll definately feel it, IMO. Give it a few days to see how you feel, if it's too difficult try 6mg for a couple of weeks.

Junkie,
I have a friend in a very similar situation as you. He has been at 4 mg for about a year and seems to do pretty well there. It's just enough to keep him stable and provide a little pain relief but low enough where he can jump to pain meds in a few days when he has to. Took him a long time to find that happy medium but he's finally there. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:02 pm 
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:) Hello RL mom,

I am so glad I read your post because I just tried the same thing exept I went from 8 to 6. On Monday I took only 6mgs and was fine, so Tuesday I took 6mgs and was a little more tired than usual, and then Wendnesday I took 6 also. I have been on 8mgs for 40days now steadily, but I still split my dose into 2 doses {I know I need to stop that, but I also have some pain issues}. So anyway on Wednesday when I only took 6mgs I was really tired and restless but continued my normal day but took a 2 1/2 hour nap in the middle of the day which I never do, and at about 9:00 I got really bad stomach cramps and had the worst diarrea ever {I also get really consipated on both subs and oxys and only go maybe 2 times a week} {sorry to get so personal}. I was really sick all night and slept like crap, I was just gonna tough it out but woke this morning and went back to 8mgs. I feel better today but still seem more tired than usual maybe because I didn't sleep well.

I think I might try doing 8mgs-8mgs-6mgs-8mgs-8mgs ect. and if that doesn't work I will try doing 7mgs instead of 6mgs. Maybe you will do fine and I hope that you do, but cutting all the way to 4mgs might be a little to much. Only you know your body though. I am really in no hurry and am not tring to taper down to 0 but just want to try to get as low as possiable.

I wish you the best please let me {us} know how you are doing! BEST OF LUCK!!!! :D


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:04 am 
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RTL - How are you doing today?

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:28 am 
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I agree that day 3 I always feel it. It isn't something I can't usually get through, but it is not "as good" as normal and it is really hard not to take your usual dose when that happens. But you can always go the 3 days on 4mg and then take a little extra on the 3rd day. Wait another 3 days and do the same, and in the end, you have still substantially decreased your dose. Eventually you can go 4 days without the extra and then 5 and then pretty soon you are ready for a whole new drop.

Good luck!

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 Post subject: Just checking in?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:56 pm 
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Hey RTL mom,

Just cheaking in to see how your feeling? I hope your doing well! I am going to try 6mgs again on Sunday, I was going to try on Saturday, but I am going to albany school shopping with my daughter and don't want to feel like crap again. I would probably be fine but don't want to take any chances, maybe I will try 6mgs and see if I need more? Sorry I am babbiling! Wishing you the best of luck!! Let us know how you are doing!! GOOD LUCK :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:39 pm 
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Hi everyone. I have been super busy. My husband is away and my 3 kids are driving me insane, plus we just got a new dog who is very hyper. lol
Anyway, so Thurs I thought was going well but then in the afternoon my bloodsugar ended up bottoming out (Im diabetic) and i ended up staying on the couch all afternoon, I think part of me staying on the couch was also my drop in dosage. I was sooooooo tired! It was awful. So, yesterday I went back up to 8 mgs and then today as well. Which is what my dr told me to do. he said try one or two days a week for now on 4mgs and the rest on 8mgs until my body starts to think nothing of the 4mgs drop then increase to maybe 4mgs 4x a week. But, idk. I just feel so much better on 8mgs and I have no bursitis in my hips or neuropathy pain in legs. *sigh*
Oh and I'm trying to taper b/c of the cost. I just really can't afford it. i want to be off. But everytime I try to taper I fail. It's very frustrating. I guess I haven't technically failed yet....but.....

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:57 pm 
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Hi RTL Mom,

I'm sorry you are not feeling well :( I hope you feel better soon! I was going to try 6mgs today and chickened out but am gonna do it tomarro for sure! I am just trying to get down to the lowest dose I can stand. I would like to be down to 2mgs by November? I am so afraid of being sick! I will be doing 6mgs sunday and monday then will do 8 again. I wish you the best! Good luck! :)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:02 am 
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Can I make a suggestion, RTL? I have found tapering to be MUCH easier when done in much, much smaller steps. Instead of taking 4mg a couple of times a week (advice that, frankly, I find a bit odd) I would suggest you simply reduce your dose to 7mg and stay there for a while. Perhaps a month. Then go down to 6mg and stay there for a month.

I have a feeling that if you do it that way, you may not even notice the difference. I am extremely opiate tolerant and I have just recently tapered from 8mg to 7mg (on my third week @ 7mg now) and I don't feel a thing.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:09 am 
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Laura,

I have neuropathy in my feet (starting to go up my legs now) and I find I can't go any lower than 8mg either or I feel it. I don't know about you, but that neuropathy is the most disruptive and disturbing thing ever. I don't want to walk and can't sleep very well when I am on it. It hurts so bad all I want to do is sleep and I often can't get to sleep because of it. Have you considered what you will do for the neuropathy if you go off of sub? I didn't know I had neuropathy when I was on sub at 12mg. When I went off it became all too apparent. Then, I went back on at a lower dose of 8mg and sometimes 10mg per day and I am much happier. I don't want to live with that kind of pain all the time so I have chosen to just stay on sub. Neuropathy is different for different people. Some find they can live with it. I don't.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:52 am 
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Junkie- Can I ask how you go 7 mgs? do you have the 2mg pills and then cut one of them in half? Ot do you get creative with a pill cutter and the mg ones? lol I guess That's really a great idea. I like that. I think I'll try that for sure! I did 6mgs today and I'm even kinda feeling that. More anxious than anything.

Cherie- yeah, I really have no clue what the hell I'm gonna do about my pain in my feet and legs when I get off the sub. If I can at least get down to 4mgs a day, I could afford to stay on that. But, that pain I feel when I wake up in the morning before I dose is awful! Sometimes I even start feeling it around 2 or 3 am and then toss and turn for the rest of the night. Maybe I need to grow the balls to talk to my dr and tell him that I'm feeling my pain again on the lower doses and see what he says..... I don't think he has any long term patients yet , maybe I'll be his first.

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Of course there's such a thing as angels. Only sometimes they don't have wings... and we call them mothers. -Unknown


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:06 pm 
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Laura,

I don't know what kind of insurance you do or do not have, but the price of my sub with the same insurance dropped in half last time I filled it. I don't know if that is because sub changed in terms of how my insurance views it or what. But things are changing (slowly) but they are. I feel your pain though. When I went off sub at 12mg and never knew i had neuropathy, even in the middle of all the physical withdrawals I had I told my doc of all the symptoms if he could just do something for my feet I would be happy. At that point we still thought it was a withdrawal symptom. No such luck. But to me, it was worse than the insomnia, runs, cognitive problems, anxiety, depression......all of it.

My doc asked the other day if I wanted to taper and I said no because I don't know what I would do about my feet. She said "fair enough" and left the dose alone. You might want to consider it if you can.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:38 pm 
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RTLmom wrote:
Junkie- Can I ask how you go 7 mgs? do you have the 2mg pills and then cut one of them in half?


Hi there:

Yes, right now, my doctor prescribes me 8mg. I get 120 of the 2mg tabs per month. But he wants me to taper to 6mg and I want to taper to 6mg as well, because as I have mentioned in a few other places, I kinda dig my wife and wouldn't mind, um, you know :wink: Right now, at 8mg, a horde of Playboy models wouldn't be able to get me revved up :lol:

So, anyway, where was I? Oh, yeah, tapering....LOL....I don't even use a pill cutter to be honest, I just cut the 2mg tabs in half with a razor blade, right along the line.

Even those half pieces are easy to cut in half again, so you could do and even smaller taper if you wanted to.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:37 pm 
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Cool, thanks for the info guys!

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