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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Ok so I have been on SUboxone for 4 coming up on 5 years this summer. Well I don’t know where things went wrong but suboxone just stop working for me not to long ago and now I am in a very difficult spot in life and my sobriety is in danger. But after talking with my Dr a few members and doing some Google research I have found that for some long term patients that suboxone stops working and nobody can really come up with an answerer as to why this happens! But when this does happen what are we as long term SUB patients suppose to do is my true question? I myself am on SUB for pain management and of course recovery but now that SUB stop working my pain is terrible and my recovery is in jeopardy. And I am in the transition now of switching to methadone to get back on the road to a successful recovery but this isn’t something that happens over night and takes time but time is something we don’t have when we are on meds like this. So I am bringing this to the only place that might have some truth to this topic!

Please Dr. J if you are reading this post asap I am in a really bad spot you guys can go the methadone section to read my full run down of whats really going on.


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 Post subject: Really interesting
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:16 pm 
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I'm really interested in the answer to this, too, and I hope Dr. J sees it. It makes sense to me that, over time, if one takes the same amount of the same drug, the body would eventually adapt to it and would not get the same effect from it anymore. I'm not sure how it works with Suboxone though. Good question, BBoy....and it's really nice to have you back!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Really interesting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:43 pm 
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laddertipper wrote:
I'm really interested in the answer to this, too, and I hope Dr. J sees it. It makes sense to me that, over time, if one takes the same amount of the same drug, the body would eventually adapt to it and would not get the same effect from it anymore. I'm not sure how it works with Suboxone though. Good question, BBoy....and it's really nice to have you back!!!

laddertipper


Yea I see where you are coming from as if you take the same dose long enough it will not work as well over time. But I have tried taking more sub even 56mgs one day and no difference so is that because the ceiling effect? Maybe that’s where they went wrong with suboxone is doses range from what 1mg up to 32mg vs. methadone is what 5mgs to 500mgs! But once you get up to 32 with suboxone what than is my question? 32 don’t work what are you suppose to do is my true question?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Were not supposed to build a tolerance to Sub like we do to other opiates. But, let's face it, pharmacy companies do their clinical trials over periods of weeks, not years. Maybe we DO become tolerant over long periods of time. If that's the case the answer would be to NOT increase your dose, but to stop taking it for a few days, or maybe go down to something like 4mg for a couple of weeks. I know this wouldn't be easy, but it just might work (?)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:59 pm 
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Bboy - I know you're going through a very difficult time right now and I hope you find some peace soon. There's one thing I'm curious about though. You mentioned having found research supporting the theory that suboxone stops working after long term use for some people. I'm very interested in reading about that. Could you give us some links to some of the research studies and/or articles that you are referring to? I've looked around myself and haven't found anything, so I'm hoping you can provide us with those sources. Again, I really hope you can work all this out soon. Please take care.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:17 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
Bboy - I know you're going through a very difficult time right now and I hope you find some peace soon. There's one thing I'm curious about though. You mentioned having found research supporting the theory that suboxone stops working after long term use for some people. I'm very interested in reading about that. Could you give us some links to some of the research studies and/or articles that you are referring to? I've looked around myself and haven't found anything, so I'm hoping you can provide us with those sources. Again, I really hope you can work all this out soon. Please take care.


Yea ill try to find the links for you. You prolly couldnt find them because i found them after digging deep into sites and post by people. wasnt just a quick google took me some time, but i go through my history.

The reason i researched this was because my Dr told me that this is proll what is going on with my case so i can also ask him for more info when i see him next!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:04 am 
Im really sorry dude that blows thats why i really really am trying hard to get off now i am on day 21 off sub and it hurts but i can see the light at the end of the tunnel now i bet i have like one week left man im so psyched , all my emotions and everything came rushing back to me even when i was sick! I would feel horrible for like 6 hours at a time then get this rush of endorphine for like 2 minutes just enough to let me know i can feel normal and by god that rush for 2 minutes of being happy was more happiness then i would get on sub for a friggin month, i started out on sub at a low dose like mgs and moved down to 2 after like 2 weeks. After 6 months i stopped doing my long distance running, my relationships with everyone suffered and i started becoming extremely depressed, and when i would mention this to anyone on sub website or my doctor BY GOD IT WAS NEVER THE SUB! If you have to manage your sobriety to be happy and be on methadone by all means do it, switch every 4 years if you can remain out of active addiction and you think its the best for you !
For some reason everyone would make it out to be the dosage, hey move down, hey move up, hey do this hey do that, and it was always worthless i would go through weeks of tapering pain just to move down and feel even worse once i adjusted to it, or take more and my life would just suffer from that head full of water bupe feeling.
" O my god our beloved miracle drug is another medication and there are actually side effects" Sorry i am not mocking you just the crazed bupe lovers, it is an amazing drug and very interesting, but you really think you can just take a pill to kill all your cravings and live perfectly normal without any type of mental side effects down the road your lieing to yourself.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:42 am 
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Onniegrapples said:

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" O my god our beloved miracle drug is another medication and there are actually side effects" Sorry i am not mocking you just the crazed bupe lovers, it is an amazing drug and very interesting, but you really think you can just take a pill to kill all your cravings and live perfectly normal without any type of mental side effects down the road your lieing to yourself.


You are entitled to your opinion and are free to express it. I'm certainly not going to deny that Suboxone has side effects. For most people on Sub, the choice is whether the benefit they get from the medication is worth tolerating any side effects that it produces.

That said, making a statement like: But you really think you can just take a pill to kill all your cravings and live perfectly normal without any type of mental side effects down the rod you're lying to yourself....

Is not ok. Those are fighting words. There are in fact people here who have been on Sub for years with no ill effects and are living perfectly normal, productive lives with no mental side effects. If that is not your experience, that is fine. But please do not state that an experience contrary to your own is a lie.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:54 am 
This post has been edited because it violated the forum rule about debating the pros and cons of Suboxone. The text of the post has been saved on the moderator forum. Please feel free to PM me or another moderator if you have any questions.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:55 am 
This post has been edited because it violated the forum rule about debating the pros and cons of Suboxone. The text of the post has been saved on the moderator forum. Please feel free to PM me or another moderator if you have any questions.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:14 am 
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I just wanted to add that I am not trying to kill this thread or stop this conversation.

Bboy, Hat, Ladder, Lilly - you guys are providing a great example of how we can talk about the drawbacks of Sub and share negative personal experiences with Suboxone without it becoming a debate about whether Sub is inherently good or bad or if a person can or can't live a normal life on Suboxone.

I guess I'm just a little sensitive about moderating threads after the recent forum drama. I want to make sure there is space for ALL of our experiences with Suboxone (or Methadone or abstinence), the good, the bad, and the ugly; and I want to make sure that every member feels like this is a good place to come for support. It just seems like it is very easy for a conversation to shift from people sharing their personal experiences to making blanket statments about Suboxone and other people's recovery.

If anyone feels uncomfortable with the way I've moderated in this thread, please PM me. I'm happy to share (off thread) the text that I removed and my reasons for doing so.

Bboy, I apologize for interrupting your thread for this Public Service Announcement and I now return you to your regular programming. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:37 pm 
Diary of a Quitter wrote:
Onniegrapples said:

Quote:
" O my god our beloved miracle drug is another medication and there are actually side effects" Sorry i am not mocking you just the crazed bupe lovers, it is an amazing drug and very interesting, but you really think you can just take a pill to kill all your cravings and live perfectly normal without any type of mental side effects down the road your lieing to yourself.


You are entitled to your opinion and are free to express it. I'm certainly not going to deny that Suboxone has side effects. For most people on Sub, the choice is whether the benefit they get from the medication is worth tolerating any side effects that it produces.

That said, making a statement like: But you really think you can just take a pill to kill all your cravings and live perfectly normal without any type of mental side effects down the rod you're lying to yourself....

Is not ok. Those are fighting words. There are in fact people here who have been on Sub for years with no ill effects and are living perfectly normal, productive lives with no mental side effects. If that is not your experience, that is fine. But please do not state that an experience contrary to your own is a lie.


Seriously? Edit my post but not yours even though yours is discussing pros and cons too. Wow you say anything even slightly negative about sub on this site and here comes completely censorship, but if i were to discuss pros of sub honestly tell me would you have deleted my post and pulled out the mod card? let me answer that for you NO.
And now you tell me that your not going to deny that sub has side effects, yet you tell me you know people that have had ZERO. Lol ZERO side effects on a partial antagonist opiate stronger in doses than anything else ive ever takin from OC to morphine, that is PURE CENSORSHIP.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:39 pm 
SUb is great!

(sorry had to have a post you wont censor on this thread)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:26 pm 
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Its cool DOQ you can moderate anyways you feel you need to. I don’t mind if its in my thread there is always goanna be post that might not be what people want here or against forum rules if you have to edit them to keep the site safe go for it. I do see what you are saying one and I agree with some of the things you said, but I do agree with DOQ that many people have taken suboxone long term with now problems. I guess they where the lucky ones but I myself didnt turn out so lucky! At first I wanted to blame Suboxone but when all is said and done I don’t know what cause SUB to stop working all I know is it stopped working and now I am trying to figure out how to fix that.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:02 pm 
Hi Bboy...I'm really sorry that you're not doing well right now. I remember your posts here for the longest time were mostly all positive and you sounded content and peaceful and were working so hard toward moving forward in your life. We all (well, most of us) go through phases in our lives, even 'normal' people who aren't addicted to anything have seasons in which they're really happy and content and then other seasons in which life just doesn't seem that great. I think the fact that we're addicts just compounds that tendency. I just know that when things aren't great, I'm not feeling my best, things aren't going the way I wish they would, etc....life just plain ole sucks! That is, until I start thinking about what I still have to be grateful for. And it's a lot! I hope there is still a lot for you to focus on that IS good...things you can be grateful for.
Of course, when things aren't great (like for you right now) we want them to be better, as we should. So we start, usually, by trying to figure out what the source of the problem is....which is what I think you are doing. I know that you feel strongly that it is the Suboxone that is at the root of it. And you're not the only one who feels that Suboxone has been, well, let's say "less than good for them." Personally, for me Suboxone has been mostly good. I think I'll always believe that it's a good drug for opiate addicts who cannot stay off drugs on their own. It is so much better than the alternative, right? I don't think too many people would argue that. But I have had my times when I question the drug as well. There's nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. But thus far, I keep coming to the same conclusion.....if I don't take it, I will almost certainly relapse to pain pills. So until I've done enough work and until the right time comes, I'll need to stay on it. I do feel that it does effect me. I do feel that I'm not quite my truest self while on it. That's just me and my feelings on the issue. I know that there are tons of people who disagree and feel that they are not the least bit affected by being on bup....that they are 100% 'themselves', feel all their emotions, etc. and who am I to argue that? That's their experience, not mine. I can't get in someone else's head and tell them what the do or don't feel!
Bottom line, I just hope you find what you're searching for. Don't give up on it. If you and your healthcare providers determine that it would be best for you to try methadone....go for it. See what happens. Perhaps getting off Sub will be the answer for you. If that ends up not being the answer....again....keep searching. I would encourage you also that while you're contemplating medication changes and such, also look into other things that may play a role in this. In particular, for me, a lot of times when I feel less than great, it's a spiritual thing. Like my spirit needs to be fed or something. Like I need to immerse myself deeper into my spiritual practices (which can be different for everyone.) Maybe you need more time with nature, more time with loved ones, more physical activity, maybe meditation or prayer....all depending on what your belief system is.
Anyway, I'm sure I've probably just repeated a lot of what others have already said, but I just wanted to encourage you as you have for others around here. Hang in there and do your best to stay positive as you try to figure this out. And keep us posted on how you're doing.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:10 pm 
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wow i am sorry for your situation as well, i really would like to hear dr j's response to this thread. I do hope that there is something you can do to rememdy this situation.

as for side effects; sub does have side effects but the benefits for me outweigh the side effects by a landslide. the constipation sucks so bad and thats one reason i am excited to be tapering but constipation is better then being a pill head and selling my soul for drugs.


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