It is currently Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:17 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:22 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:01 pm
Posts: 80
I love this site, and I love reading the encouraging stories people post. I have a serious interest in becoming an LCDC, so recovery is kinda of my "thing". Meaning that I love to be involved in helping others, since I have, and am still recovering from long term opiate drug abuse. I, like others view other sites, and sometimes I will read some things on the "Subsux" forum. I am PRO SUBOXONE, I'm going on close to a year and a half of 8mg/day. I understand chemicals impact people's bodies differently, some seem to get the positive benefits from suboxone, but others seem to have horror stories.

My question is this: Are there people using subs for an extended period of time (more than 3-5 years), that started off with the benefits, and then declined because they got tolerant to this medication?

I've read many posts on this site, and of course, since we are pro-sub, we generally promote suboxone, and of course positive ideas for continued recovery. I'd just like some thoughts on why so many people are against using sub long term. Is it because they were using it to get "high", and not what is was intended for, or do our bodies develop a tolerance over time, and we will stop experiencing the positive effects?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:37 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:50 pm
Posts: 18
I can only speak for my own experience. I have been on Bupe for about 3 years now. I have fibromyalgia and was previously prescribed hydrocodone then oxycodone in addition to Cymbalta and flexaril. My dosage steadily rose over time since I became both tolerant and dependent on the short-acting opiates. Having been on Bupe for 3 years now, I have not seen this same effect. I am able to get effective pain management without having to constantly up my dose. I am pregnant at the moment so that is a special circumstance, but outside of pregnancy, I actually saw my dose decrease over time as I am always concerned about being dependent on it. In my case, I think Bupe is a much smarter option for long term chronic pain management than short-acting opiates.

Edit to add: I started on approximately 4mg. Before pregnancy and after 2.5 years, I was down to approximately 1-1.5mg per day. Now I take 2mg twice per day. I find the best relief by taking twice per day versus once in the morning.


Last edited by steph_jawb178 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:51 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:51 pm
Posts: 28
Todd,
Your my favorite user on here, you've been so helpful to me & my situation. Hopefully this helps:
I have been prescribed suboxone for over 3yrs, but I was taking it everyday on the street for close to 2yrs before I got prescribed it. When I was using it on the street & when I first got prescribed it, I never used more than 8mg a day. After some time on 12mg a day I was moved to 16mg a day. I've noticed that over time as my dose increases I feel worse, or I feel the suboxone isn't as effective as it used to be. I think less is more when it comes to sub's & the best way to ensure that your dose stays effective over time is to stay on a low mg. I really noticed the difference when I was prescribed sub. On the street I would only take 4mg a day max & it always made me feel better. Now I can't notice a difference from 8mg to 32mg, honestly.

Hope this helps a little bit. Stay on a low dose & then if you have to you can increase it :)


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:59 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:04 pm
Posts: 423
Hi Todd,

In my opinion,

I think that I am an ADDICT. And since i am an addict, I want to take more and more of something. even though I physically can not feel any difference. Sometimes it is the act of taking something in hopes to get a "different " feeling.

Thank goodness, Suboxone has a ceiling effect and that half a sub will give most people the same physical effects as taking 24mg.

The mental cravings is a whole other topic. Someone can be on 24mg and mentally crave the old high they use to get .

Addiction is a tricky thing. I believe we need more than just the suboxone... I think that therapy or meetings or something else is needed to go along with the meds to understand our own personal addiction story.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:25 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:02 pm
Posts: 1342
Location: West Tennessee
Hi Todd,

I have spent time thinking about this same issue. I don't understand why there are so many patients that seem to feel that suboxone turns on them at some point. I have seen that stated on other forums, and for the life of me I can't understand it. I really think a lot of it has to do with the mentality or expectation that one goes into treatment with. Also, doctors who push patients to get off before they are ready or don't give correct information about the taper and WD process don't help the situation much.

Most of the people I have seen that hold a ton of anger toward suboxone are the ones who feel that they were somehow tricked into taking subs. They feel that their doctors fed them a line of B.S. with promises of an easy taper. I can't speak to how valid their claims are, but I do agree that most doctors don't fully understand what WD is like and how hard it can be. My first doctor forced me into a taper to be completely finished in one year from my start date. He also told me many times after getting below 1mg that any symptoms I had were in my head. I hated that doctor, because he didn't get it and he didn't care to listen to reason or learn more about the drug he was prescribing. I believe these issues are improving, but we still have a long way to go before treatment is perfected across the board.

My guess is that the majority of patients who say the drug turned on them were not working a good recovery program or were not taking subs the proper way. Anyone who has been on them for more than a year knows that there is no high from taking them correctly. Maybe they miss the old feelings and weren't ready to give that up for a stable life? I don't know, I can't do anything but speculate and that wouldn't be fair of me. I'm sure there are issues that can arise with treatment, but I don't think it happens in a vast majority of patients. In the three years I have been here I have seen very few threads that I would call reputable sources claiming this type of thing. The vast majority of our members have good experiences with sub treatment. Of course there are reasons that most of us will want off at some point or another, but I think it has more to do with recovery and being ready to be done with dependence than any deficiency in the treatment we are in.

Just my thoughts,

Q

_________________
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:12 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:27 am
Posts: 1454
I think I have a fairly realistic view of suboxone. I was on it for 6 years and for the first couple of years it was great. The difference in my life after starting suboxone maintenance was nothing short of a miracle. I was previously on methadone for the two years before suboxone treatment and I was still the same old addict. But, something about suboxone didn't make me feel "loaded" like methadone did, so I was able to get out of that head space. Everything was really great on suboxone and I was able to work on myself and focus on the healthy aspects of my life. 2-3 years in, I started getting severe anxiety and turned into a social retard. I was content to stay home and do nothing versus face the world in any capacity. I know some on here will argue that that was my true self coming out. I've heard it before but it just doesn't hold any weight with me personally. That could be very well true for others, just not for me. It's not the person I ever was and not the person I am now. I have been off suboxone since 2012 and am clean. I am back to the way I've always known myself to be. The anxiety and social phobia stopped immediately after getting off suboxone. However, I'd do it all again to be where I am now. And if it weren't for wanting to have kids (and my personal beliefs that that should be done sober, if at all possible) then I would have just dealt with those side effects. It is much easier living life with a security net like suboxone. But this is my journey, and I've chosen to try it this way.

Did it suck not feeling like my self 100%? Totally. But, being a junkie, literally in the streets, while your friends and family resented you, sucked a whole lot worse. I would choose suboxone a million times over.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:26 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1001
My experience is similar to that of tinydancer. The first couple of years on Suboxone were fantastic. For the most part I stayed off other opioids, got myself back into study, a good job, a stable relationship. I travelled the country. Things were quite positive.

Around years 3-4 (2013) I started suffering. How much of this is due to the Suboxone, and how much is due to my bipolar, is hard to say. But I found myself intensely depressed. I stopped reaching out to my friends, stopped taking calls. I became a recluse. My libido reduced to nil. My T levels were checked and they were low. I basically lost my mojo, and my will to live. Around the time my best mate passed away, my psychiatrist started experimenting with even stronger antidepressants, ones that haven't been prescribed since the 70's. One of them worked a bit too well, and sent me in a manic spin. I relapsed hard on heroin and benzos, and stopped taking my Suboxone. All the old addict behaviours kicked in full force. It wasn't long before I was homeless, sleeping in my car, scrounging and hustling on the streets to get cash for gear.

Thankfully I ended up in a detox facility that put me back on Suboxone, and the long term rehab I went to gradually started reducing me. But the depression symptoms remained, and I was referred to the psych outreach services (crisis assessment triage team) a few times by the rehab due to suicidal ideation. The rehab refused to reduce my Suboxone further because of these symptoms, but I had huge suspicions Suboxone was the cause of my depression, so I packed my bags and left rehab to kick it on my own. I then kicked Suboxone on a mattress on the floor of my dealer's place for a week, went back to a detox facility to finish off the detox, and got straight back into that rehab, this time without Suboxone.

My friends in the rehab all said that they noticed a huge shift in my mood, attitude and behaviour on my return. I wasn't so quiet, withdrawn, and sad. It felt to me like my bipolar medication was working a lot better now I was off the Sub. I stayed in that rehab for a further 6 months before leaving and plugging back into the NA fellowship.

I'm now 15 months off all drugs. I'm working, studying, living in my own apartment, attending regular meetings. And I'm not looking back.

As I said previously, my condition is a bit more complex than straightforward addiction. How much was due to Sub, and how much was due to bipolar, is impossible to say. All I know is my bipolar is much more manageable now I'm off Suboxone. My mood, my libido, and my presence of mind is all improved. And that's even acknowledging that I did some serious damage in that relapse on heroin.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:03 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:05 pm
Posts: 101
Hi, I have been on suboxone for about 3 years now. I take it to treat addiction-related cravings as well as chronic pain (fibromyalgia + occasional sciatic/disc related pain). First off, for addiction, this medication worked incredibly well for me and it gave me my life back. Way sooner than I thought I'd have it back. In the early time that I had switched from fentanyl and Oxys to sub, what I felt about it can only be described as a huge relief. While I'm no longer riding the "pink cloud", I feel to some degree grateful for that every day.
My pain was not treated well on full-agonist opiates, and I could not function. Fibro is not known for responding well to full agonists, and this was my experience no matter how strong the meds I got were. I had infinitely more success treating pain with suboxone and still do. There are more studies coming out saying that partial agonists like sub and tramodol are more effective in treating fibro pain than full agonists. I even went on some fibromyalgia support forums to see if more patients were trying this and reporting good outcomes, and about 95 percent of those posts from those who tried sub for fibro pain were absolutely thrilled with the results. Not being strung out anymore and having better results with this med got me active again, enabled me to exercise and do the physical therapy that is essential to staying well (for me, anyway).
Within the first few months of being on sub I lost weight probably due to more physical activity, and I've kept it off ever since. The only thing I've had a problem with is my tooth enamel wearing down, but nothing too serious or appearance-altering as of yet. That could also very well be due to other habits of mine like smoking, but I understand the dry mouth effect of opiates can cause this. I would hope more people would be warned about this as a possibility.
Anyway I'm sorry if I'm dragging on, but none of this has changed. It's been 3 years, it still works, I'm still well for the most part, I can hold a job, be disciplined with fitness, be there for other people more, be honest with others, be sexually active, and be a good person - without ever having to increase my dose. If anything I've started taking less because I always end up with extra by the time I'm supposed to need a refill.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group