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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:49 pm 
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I used oxy and fentynl, hydro, everything...for years, the past year and a half I've been sniffing .5mg of sub two or three times a day. It works like magic and to this day I still feel better from the sub than the oxy (after years of oxy use it sucked but the sub feels awsome). I am very concerned that sniffing suboxone everyday will have some terrible side effects and I feel like my body is telling me to stop. But obviously I CAN'T. I'm a freeking addict and this WORKS for me. I get that opiate feeling (not as intense) but consistently pleasurable everyday for over a year and it let me save money and keep my job and have dynamite sex for over a year. I am highly sociable and my confidence is sky high which has changed my life...BUT I'm putting a powerful drug up my nose daily and worry I will soon pay the price..CAN ANYBODY RELATE? OR HAS ANYBODY SNIFFED SMALL AMOUNTS OF SUB FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME? AM I GUNA BE OK?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:41 am 
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I can't comment about putting sub up my nose because I have never done that. However, I wonder what prevents you from just taking suboxone properly and putting it under your tongue? I would certainly suggest you stop snorting it and this site doesn't really condone improper or illegal suboxone use. But it does promote recovery so if that is what you are seeking, then it seems to me the first step would be getting suboxone legally (if you aren't already) and then taking it as prescribed by a doctor. Maybe if you provide some additional information about where you are at and what you are really seeking that would be helpful. i.e. if the only question is whether or not you should stop snorting suboxone then I am pretty sure the overwhelming answer on this website is going to be "yes". But I am not certain that is all you are asking.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:53 am 
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I must agree with JackCrack. Are you snorting sub JUST to get "that opiate feeling"? It's my belief from what you're describing that even though it's sub you're snorting that you are still in active addiction. Is this what you want from life? I'd say STOP this behavior and at least give remission/recovery a try.

Lastly, I have no idea what "damage" you're doing, but I'm sure it isn't good. Sorry to be so blunt.

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 Post subject: Sub and Self Confidence
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:20 am 
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I'd only read about snorting sub, but have never tried it in the fear I'd end up where I was with oxy. Can't really offer any advice, but I do have something to say about the mild opiate high that comes with oxy- which it sounds like you're talking about.

Now at ~4 mos clean, I'm having grand visions of returning to grad school and accomplishing great things. I think they are very realistic, and to some degree normal for a person in recovery. At the same time, I also know that part of it is the "false sense of well-being" that comes with any opiate buzz, however mild. For what it's worth, if I wait long enough for my sub to mostly "wear off", my thoughts turn 180 degrees to "What in the hell was I thinking that I could return to school?"- no way!- I'm a mess". Then I take my sub and the fantasy starts all over! For me Suboxone= A very mild Opiate high with none of the usual collateral damage.


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 Post subject: No way
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:51 pm 
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When I read dr paul's post the first words that came in to my mind were "No way, if subs are not meant to be sniffed it can only result in more trouble." I sincerely hope that anyone seeking help here doesn't read that and try it out of desperation for that high. Think of the price you pay. Don't get duped into doing it. Why ruin something that's going so good only to fall right back in to being short later on & getting sick. Not worth it. Besides on the subs I am losing my cravings. I would only be defeating the purpose of my treatment and just fooling myself.

Be smart people. Don't screw up. Dr paul, I strongly suggest you stop! If sububoxone is not prescribed that way it was not meant to be used that way. Lord knows what you are doing to yourself. Good Luck.

Love & Hope Queenie


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:43 pm 
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There are no side-effects from nasal use other than the nose is not really meant
for powder, but it works. If you are really only snorting 1mg per day I know from
experience that it won't "hurt" you. It does say something about where your
goals are, but who am I am judge?

I used to use nasally on occasion but it really has no advantage when you have
to take 8mg twice per day. Too much volume then. No matter what your method
of ingestion, it's better than what a lot of us were doing before we found help with
Sub.

It does increase the speed of absorption and I guess that is the reason
some people snort their's but it's just not a good idea.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:52 am 
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Of course you should try to take it as prescribed, but if that's not something that you are going to bother with, then I won't waste my time telling you about it...

I doubt that such a small amount could cause damage to your nose. Your LUNGS, however, are a different story. If any of that powder is making its way into your lungs, that shit could build up and cause some respiratory issues. Do you ever exhale a cloud of orange smog after you've snorted your subs? If so, then yeah, some of that is getting into your lungs, and that can be problematic.

In any case, I personally, would like to say that you are doing a good job by snorting Suboxone, and not snorting Oxy. If this is what you have to do to stay out of active addiction, then do it. I don't see a problem with it, to be honest, because you are using the same amounts every day, you aren't upping your dose to get 'higher', and you aren't running out of pills early and then selling your body on the street corner to get more to avoid being sick. I'm just saying that this is surely a better lifestyle than what you were living BEFORE you started snorting Suboxone, and if anyone says that you 'might as well be on full agonists again' then they are wrong. Just my opinion. I think you'd be better off trying to fully recover from your addiction and taking your medication sublingually, but hell, if this is the only other option that you have aside from going back to your drug of choice, then I encourage your behavior.

But yes, it DOES do damage to your body, and you SHOULD switch to sublingual dosing, just to avoid damaging your lungs, if anything. But if you do decide to stop snorting your Suboxone, then you should know that you will need around twice the amount that you have been snorting for you to be without withdrawal when you stick it under your tongue because Suboxone is absorbed better intranasally than sublingually. So if you are snorting 1mg, you should probably take 2mg sublingually.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:34 pm 
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I did this for over 2 years. Just be careful. It will begin to make you depressed as a result of all the dopamine you are using up in your brain. It will also eventually cause you to have to snort more and more, until you are using more than you are prescribed. If you can keep the amount you are taking under wraps, then it seems A-ok with me, if it's going to keep you off dope better than taking it as prescribed, but myself, it started giving me mood swings and terrible anger issues (such as the worst road rage in the history of man)....just, again, be careful, and watch how it is affecting how you act.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:41 pm 
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Hi Sliver...I just wanted to thank you for your contribution (and your honesty) and to welcome you to the forum. I hope you stick around. Are you doing better now that you're taking it as prescribed?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:38 pm 
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I am not sure what is in the Sub pills in terms of fillers and binders but judging from the size of the tab I think it is safe to say that it contains a lot of these - some commonly used things are chalk and talc. When any pills are crushed into a powder and snorted, some of the powder has a potential to reach the lungs. When these microscopic particles reach the lung tissue, it sets up an inflammatory response, which is the body's way of trying to "fight off" the foreign substance. When the area heals, as with any injury, there is scar tissue. Over time, the lungs become scarred and are not able to inflate and deflate properly. It's called pulmonary fibrosis. It has happened to people in the past who worked construction or in mines, etc. without any respiratory protection, and who breathed in substances over a period of time. Sometimes the symptoms don't show up until years after the exposure. The condition is irreversible.

I agree with those who state that taking our meds as rx'd is the best bet. You say that it's not just a one-time deal, and that you've been doing it for quite some time, so you are putting your lungs at risk in the future. That's my opinion, anyhow.

~Rossma


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:07 am 
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Yes, I am doing much better now that I take them as prescribed. And, rosa, I completely agree. All I'm saying is, if it were to be between snorting the suboxone or going back to shooting dope, I'd reccommend the former any day of the week. I am doing very well, though I have no insurance, and so, I have to buy the pills from the pharmacy five at a time in order to afford them. 5 suboxone cost me $38.50.

I'm at a point now where I'd like to get off the suboxone, because I know for a fact I am at a safe point now (being 3 years into sobriety) to stop taking them. They are costing me upwards of $300 a month, and it is extremely financially straining. The problem is, I can't afford to take the time off from work to go through the withdrawals, so it's kinda like 'f***ed if I do, f***ed if I don't'. Several years ago I got off Suboxone with a (at that time, don't know about now) little known leaf/tea called Kratom. Worked like a charm, but I wasn't ready and soon relapsed. I've heard since that it is hard to find pure enough Kratom now for it to work efficiently, and it is also very expensive (around a hundred dollars a gram for the good kratom if I remember correctly). If anyone knows a good source for this, please let me know. I used to make it into a tea and drink it. It completely got rid of any withdrawals. Apparently it has been used by the Chinese for Opium withdrawals for centuries.

Anyway, yes, I would strongly recommend against snorting suboxone because;

1. It IS going back into old patterns of behavior.
2. The thing I didn't know about, lung scarring (Whoa!).
3. It will make you have a short temper, very ornery. I acted like John Mccain and George Burns put together back then!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:09 am 
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Thanks for making me giggle, Silver:)

On Kratom: I have only tried it once, and it did nothing for me, but that was a long, long time ago. I do know more about it now, though. If you're going to purchase it, buy the extracts. I know a few sites that sell it, but don't know if they are any good. Also, I would recommend against using Kratom because it is in itself addicting. You WILL experience opiate withdrawals from it if you take it long enough to become dependent on it, so if you have to use it, be careful, but it's kind of like playing with fire for an addict to use something akin to their drug of choice to quit their maintenance medication...also, it IS quite expensive. It's gained popularity in the last couple of years, and more in demand than it used to be. I would say that you would be safer and better off just using clonidine and immodium (although you can build a tolerance to and withdrawal from loperamide as well, so taper off that, also), and other comfort meds instead of using kratom, just to be on the safe side.

Whatever you decide, I hope it works for you:) Good luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:54 am 
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In response to the OP dr. paul, snorting subs carry some risk of bacterial infection and lung damage. The binders and fillers can get caught in sinuses and cause a nasty infection. I don't know how high the risk of that is, but I think it is low; but I did read a story of a guy who had to get his sinus removed from that...don't know if that is true.
If you continue to snort sub, clean and rinse your nose with some water in your sink. I used to call those "water bombs" btw. They clean your nose and actually enhance absorption.

I struggled with snorting sub myself on occasion. I'm assuming you buy your sub on the street since you've been using this way the whole time. What I suggest you do is get a sub doctor, tell him your problem and be honest, and get the new suboxone sublingual film strips. They are a gift from the bupe gods for those who struggle with snorting sub. I started taking the film recently, and I never told my doctor about snorting out of fear of the consequences btw.

I started taking sub normally when I first started treatment, and within a year into my treatment I tried snorting because I read about it online. I mostly took it the proper way, and believe it or not I felt best when I took it the proper way under my tongue, sublingually, which is the way this drug was meant to taken.

Don't snort your medication, it is the most asinine thing you can do, as it mocks everything opioid maintanence stands for. It is better then snorting full agonist opioids like heroin though.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:51 pm 
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sliver2281 wrote:
Yes, I am doing much better now that I take them as prescribed. And, rosa, I completely agree. All I'm saying is, if it were to be between snorting the suboxone or going back to shooting dope, I'd reccommend the former any day of the week. I am doing very well, though I have no insurance, and so, I have to buy the pills from the pharmacy five at a time in order to afford them. 5 suboxone cost me $38.50.


Ugh, I am in the same boat as you. No insurance, so I pay $57.02 for 7 pills. It's sad to say but the price I pay for them every week is more motivation to quit than anything :/

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:09 pm 
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For those of you without insurance, ask your sub doc about the manufacturer's "Patient Assistance Program". Each doc is allowed three patients on it and if you are approved then your meds are paid for for a full year. I posted info on it in the "Links" section for those interested. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:43 am 
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Wow thank you for the feedback. Didn't expect that much. Well the reason I snort it is because A. It works. B. It doesn't work nearly as weel sublingual at the does I take (a half of a quarter morning half a quarte afternoon) so basically I would have to spend 8 times more money at 7 dollars a pill. See where I'm going with this. I did it this way for a year from streets cuz it was cheapest and one sub could last for a week, so I would be stupid to take a whole one a day under tongue when nasaland sublingual mucous memrane is almost the same. See I'm a recovering addict who works in medical field and I'm not some twit, I know my stuff and I take my health very serious, but nose and tongue both work IDENTICALLY as far as route administration to your nervous system. I just don't know if there's serious side effects, there's no research I can find. But yea it just makes sense to use WAY less, people tell me sublingual works best and I believe them, but unfortunatly FOR ME it doesn't and I would need to take more and when I do that I just feel Doped up. I DO NOT take it nasally to get high, I have no reason to lie to you, I'm here looking for honest help not to shoot the breeze so let's get to the point, everything I'm saying is what I do and I need to know if anyone has suffered effects from what I do currently. I am seeing a sub doc now but still only need about 5 pills a month. I don't want to start taking it how I'm "supposed to" so my system gets loaded with an opiote and I have to wdrawl, I'm no sucker, ill stick to sniffin a bump here n there...it works


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:08 am 
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Thank you to thepeople who understood my problem, its not about where my goals are, its about "will less than 1mg a day of suboxone do damage to me". I'm not sniffin enough to even get a drip. Let alone a cloud of orange dust like I'm sniffin a whole pill, god I couldn't put that nasty powder in my nose in that amount id throw up. But yea only a small crumb is my dose I can't even measure my dose but toal a day never never never reaches more than a quarter of a pill a day. And I have no reasons to lie to anyonomous people on a forum, this is straight talk. Only straight shooters please reply! I just feel like my body is saying "this suboxone IS a drug whether u say or not, cuz you need it, u can't go without, its your top priortiy, you depend on it to feel good and escape your TRUE feeling, subs always make me in a good mood, not "high" but def different and pleasant. And it costs like a dollar a day. Cuz my dose is righteous.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:57 am 
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Quote:
"this suboxone IS a drug whether u say or not, cuz you need it, u can't go without, its your top priortiy (SIC), you depend on it to feel good and escape your TRUE feeling..


First, I don't think anyone here says suboxone ISN'T a drug - it's an opiate, albeit a partial agonist, but an opiate nonetheless. As for it being my "top priority"...where are you getting that? It's no more my "top priority" than any of my other medications. I take it and forget about it. And what gives you the impression that people take it to "escape true feelings"? It does not in any way, shape, or form, alter my emotions. Again, where are you getting this from?

It seems to me from what you're saying that because you take it in your own way that you seem to think 1) that you are not dependent on it and 2) that those of us who take it as directed still have some kind of addiction going. We not addicted to suboxone, only dependent. There's a huge difference. I could explain the difference between addiction and dependence, but I hope that's necessary. It also sounds like you are differentiating yourself from us because of the route of administration and/or the dosage taken. No matter how small of a dose you take you are more than likely also dependent on it, as well.

I'd like to ask you this: does sub remove your physical cravings for full agonists? Did it and does it continue to remove your withdrawals when you stopped taking pain pills? If so, then you are dependent on it. If you weren't it wouldn't do those two things for you. And if they don't do that for you, then why do you take it?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Wow, crazy stuff there. Read the posts. I am dependent on subs heavily, sublingual I'm sure is good but I don't like havin so much opiate in my blood, id rather have as little as posible thus the sniffing part.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Please may I add my two pennyworth to this thread? DO NOT SNORT, INHALE OR SMOKE ANYTHING!!! I smoked hash for over 20 years, then had a coke habit for 18 months followed by 9 years of smoking heroin. I now have 26% lung function and am registered as disabled with C.O.P.D. Emphysema and pulmonary embolism as a result. I am on home oxygen, and cannot walk further than about 20 feet on a good day. A wreck at 51, I deeply regret ever taking anything, but of course it's a bit fucking late now. PLEASE PLEASE TAKE SUBOXONE AS PRESCRIBED AND NO OTHER WAY. Sorry but I don't want to hear of anyone going down the same route as me.

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