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 Post subject: Thanks to you, my pal
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Sneaky, I am so glad you wrote what you just did. Nobody should be snorting Subs. We are here to try to recover from an addiction. Why are we even discussing snorting Subs. I am so glad I found this forum and have made many friends. We encourage each other through cravings, depression and frustrations. Anyone experiencing cravings might read this & weaken looking for a high. Which, as I mentioned before, is defeating the purpose of Subs. dr paul, we are not addicted to subs. We are addicted to other drugs and are depending on subs to avoid the horror of withdrawals, to taper off the subs and eventually be free of the need for narcotics.

Let's keep our minds on our goal and not create more problems for ourselves.

Don't give in & don't give up. Love & Hope, queenie


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 Post subject: snorting subs
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:00 pm 
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Its just a waste due. It dosent last as long as it would taking thed right way. Go get the new films out. They are the best. Hits u harder and fater than the tabs. Can't snort thoe though. If u snort the tabs it last a couple hours. Taking them right will last 2 to 3 days.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:55 am 
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I'm sorry, and I'm not trying to be rude here or anything, but you seem to think that, because your ROA is different than the recommended ROA, you are somehow absorbing less of the drug into your system? That's not the case, dr. You are dosing a small amount of buprenorphine, but in reality, you are actually absorbing MORE of the medication by snorting it than you would be by taking that same amount sublingually. You are taking around 2mg, right? Usually less? Well, if you were to take 3.5-4mg sublingually, it would be equal to what you are consuming intranasally. Yes, the action of the medication is shorter lived when administered intranasally, but that doesn't mean that you are metabolizing any less buprenorphine than someone who took 4mg sublingually... if that makes any sense to you.

What I am trying to say is that buprenorphine is absorbed in higher concentrations the way that you are dosing it, and thus, you need less than you would through the sublingual route of administration. But that doesn't mean that you are using 'less' Suboxone than someone who takes twice as much as you do, as they are directed to take it. You don't have any less of the drug in your system than I do, or than anyone else does...especially since you are dosing two times a day.

I also want to tell you that you are likely still going to have withdrawal when you stop taking Suboxone. Whoever told you that snorting the Suboxone would lead to a lesser physical dependence upon it lied to you. You are still dependent on it. You STILL have an opiate in your system 24 hours a day. It doesn't matter HOW you take Suboxone; if you take it every day over the course of an extended period of time, then yes, you are going to become dependent upon it physically. you ARE dependent upon it physically, and when you are physically dependent upon a medication, when the medication is ceased, you suffer adverse side effects.

Sorry if I misunderstood anything that you posted. It's late here, and I'm tired. To be honest, I sincerely doubt that such a small amount will do serious damage to your body by you snorting it. But it's still possible that you are doing some damage, so you MAY want to think about taking your dose + 1/3rd of your dose sublingually instead. You would probably only need 3-4mg sublingually...but if you really cannot afford that, then I understand. I'm only taking 1.5mg myself, mainly to save money.

The only real damage that I would imagine that you could possibly be causing to yourself would be to your lungs. But I'm not a doctor, so I can't be certain of that. I do know that people HAVE suffered respiratory issues from snorting pills before, so yes, it is a possibility.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:46 pm 
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Thanks for feedback again. I'm not trying to get high...? What makes nasal use different from sublingual? Both travels across mucous membrane. I don't do it to get high, bupe doesn't get you "high". its a way I can take less and stretch out the pillls. Ya know? I use one pill a week..can't beat it. But I am a little concerned with how some posts say were not addicted to subs? Try gettin ur script takin away suddenely and let's see if addictive behaviors come back. Ill be looking for subs like I would be oxy and if I couldn't find it then I would look for oxy. We are only 24 hours from relapse if our script goes away...I wanted to stop doing pills so I sought out suboxone and used it because it made me feel not sick and cost less money....when I take suboxone I have no desire for MORE SUBOXONE. But if I go a whole day without suboxone I need MORE SUBOXONE. Haha but seriously I'm on drugs to get off drugs...genius. bupe is a narcotic, just not as good as oxy. But it works!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:31 pm 
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There is another guy here that sticks it in his ass and that was cool. And some of you same people saying he is wrong for snorting were ok with the other come on now this guy choses to snort. I my self use it as directed as we all should but to each his own. Best of luck to you and all of you there is a lot of good information on this sight please keep it coming.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:03 pm 
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There is a HUGE difference between being addicted and being dependent. Addiction involves compulsion/compulsive behavior; poor control over their drug use; continued use of the drug despite harm; and cravings for the drug. Dependence doesn't involve any of those things. It just means when you take the drug away there are withdrawals. Here are some of the ways to know when someone is addicted: Taking medications at higher doses or more frequently than prescribed; ingesting drugs in ways other than prescribed; doctor shopping; multiple pharmacies; and frequent lost or stolen prescriptions.

I would argue vehemently that I am not addicted to suboxone. It's not causing me harm, I'm not taking more than prescribed, I take it as directed, I don't crave it...etc, etc, etc. I (we) are dependent on suboxone only.

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 Post subject: Re: snorting subs
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:53 pm 
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vito orlando wrote:
Its just a waste due. It dosent last as long as it would taking thed right way. Go get the new films out. They are the best. Hits u harder and fater than the tabs. Can't snort thoe though. If u snort the tabs it last a couple hours. Taking them right will last 2 to 3 days.


I'm not advocating to snort your suboxone but the information you are giving is completely false. And you should edit your posts before submitting them.

You actually get about 20% more sub when you snort and it lasts just as long and the onset is faster, or "it hits you quicker."


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 Post subject: That would be me
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:27 am 
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I'm the one (or one of the members) who takes my bupe rectally. Like dr paul, I snort it on occasion, and have to disagree that there's any significant difference in absorption rate - I'd like to see the source for that information, because from personal experience I can tell you I feel no difference whether taken sublingual, nasally, or rectally. The drug is absorbed into the bloodstream via mucus membranes, and to be honest, in my opinion sublingual is the least efficient method, but that's just my opinion based on my experience, and as I mentioned in my "Starfish" thread, I have a small, dry mouth and the sublingual area was messed up by a botched surgery when I was young. Time is also something to consider, for me at least.

Also, most of the responses to my post were initially negative, but once I explained why starfishing is my preferred ROA, folks eased up a little. But generally, the people here are not very receptive to alternative ROA's, which is understandable since the focus of this board is recovery, and that narrows the thought process significantly. That's not a slam or insult, just an observation. Some people feel that 12 step is the only way, others feel inpatient is the only way, then there's people like me and dr paul who do things our own way. The way I see it, Dr Paul is insufflating a very small amount, I can't see it doing any harm unless he continues it for years without using a netti pot or some other method to rinse his sinuses and it's keeping him off the oxy, so that's fine. I'm still waiting for my PAPs card, and being unemployed and uninsured, I can certainly relate to the crazy prices.

Anyway, as I said, this is a recovery board, so if you run outside a relatively narrow path, you will receive negative responses. To answer your question, just use good hygiene, keep your nostrils and sinuses clean, and you'll be fine. I'm not going to teach people how to insufflate it, but anyone who does learns very quickly how to keep it in the sinus cavity and not running down the back of your throat, so the issue of it getting into your lungs is no more an issue of dust, pollen or any other airborne particles getting into your lungs.

I will say this: The "Feel Good" effect will diminish with time no matter which roa you use. If you've been addicted or dependent for a long time - say 20 years or more - it's going to take a long time before you feel "Normal" without some type of opiate in your system, and that's where the recovery system really kicks in. It's easy to say you've kicked and are clean while using Bupe, the true test comes when you stop taking the bupe, because it is an opiate, and the longer you're on it, the harder it is to stop.

Good luck, whatever your plan is

J

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:36 pm 
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And for the record J_Ramone I was not attacking you or anything or saying anything wrong with what you do just useing you as a way to show my point

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:04 pm 
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rsaylor8326 wrote:
And for the record J_Ramone I was not attacking you or anything or saying anything wrong with what you do just useing you as a way to show my point


Understood :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:38 pm 
I really don't think the responders here have been narrow minded. It stands to reason that for those of us addicts who snorted cocaine, oxy and/or heroin in our active addiction, the idea of snorting sub and getting a pleasurable opiated sensation sounds dangerously like active addiction. Its great the dr paul can stay off drugs with 1.5mg of sub/day. But most of us have to work on changing our addict behaviors as well as take our me


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:24 am 
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I have to agree with Lilly. I really don't see how anyone here is being narrow-minded. Entering addiction remission/recovery means more than just stopping taking drugs. It means changing so many of our old habits and behaviors, too. Most if not all of us here take that very seriously and have responded to this post honestly. That doesn't make us narrow-minded.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:52 pm 
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Oh, I agree. I don't think any individual here is narrow minded and did not mean to insinuate that. I simply said this is a recovery focused board, so that narrows the thought process, which is true and understandable. Read the replies to any post about taking Suboxone in any manner other than sublingual and you'll understand what I mean.

As I said, it's not a slam at all, and should not be taken as one. Some of us just don't fit into the "recovery box" or typical parameters as well as others. It's not a bad thing, just different. :)

J

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:08 pm 
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All of you need to stop and read the topic about dosing and how to injest Subs thats when I relized that were all just a bunch of addicts that need each other to survive. And must stick together becouse it's a world of a bunch of people that don't understand us and the ones that try and the ones that do.And the ones that do understand why we do what we do are fare and few between.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:37 pm 
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dr paul wrote:
Wow, crazy stuff there. Read the posts. I am dependent on subs heavily, sublingual I'm sure is good but I don't like havin so much opiate in my blood, id rather have as little as posible thus the sniffing part.


I think I'd better pre-warn you, but this post may sound blunt. Some may call it "tough love", but considering I don't even know you, just consider it some "tough" advice.

I'd just like to say that snorting ANY drug is abusing a drug. As far as I know, in this day and age, there are NO drugs prescribed to be taken up the nose. With pharmacotherapies such as buprenorphine & methadone, even when taken with the proper method of ingestion (orally / sublingually), a person needs to be very wary of old addictive mindsets and behaviour kicking in. ie - a person getting their methadone from the clinic constantly hassling the dispenser for "a few more linessss man" - be it joking or otherwise - is an addictive behaviour kicking in. A person on suboxone who notices them developing a tolerance and no longer getting that mild opiate high then going to their doctor to say their dose "isn't holding them anymore" imo is an addictive behaviour as they're still chasing that opiate high just from a different drug (btw this is a really common problem with subox & many people find them on 32mg unnecessarily if their docs don't have their wits about them).

so on the spectrum of addictive behaviour, crushing your subox and snorting it is definitely up there. someone could just as easily take your reasons for snorting it and apply them to injecting it. Would you see that as a problem? In the words of AA / NA peoples, "get real man". Maybe take such questions to bluelight and come back when your life is a mess enough to approach your treatment with a different mindset.

Take care man & be safe. And if people are getting a lil worked up, it's only because we've been where you are now.

T.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:42 am 
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Ok, so we all know that swallowing subs greatly diminishes it effects, right? Well, when you snort something it goes up your nose, into your sinus and then drips down your throat, into your stomach. Basically, you're taking the long route in swallowing the pill. Some absorption will occur in the nasal cavity but not much. If anything, I think you are losing effectiveness this way and if you were to take it the proper way it would probably provide greater relief. You say you are not getting a drip but you are, you just can't feel it. People are swallowing boogers all day, it's a natural body function.

Also come on, dude. I know you must be suck of having crazy looking orange boogers. You must be pulling crap out of your nose all day. The fact of the matter is you are still evoking addict behavior. In the end of my addiction, I was shooting heroin, morphine, oxy, hell even sub sometimes and so were many others on here. If people who were shooting up can stop, so can you.

THE GOOD NEWS is that the new Sub Film/Strips are available EVERYWHERE and come with 75 dollar off coupons if you are paying out of pocket. Maybe the film could be the saving grace for you and keep you from ruining your nasal cavities.

If you are really, really low in funds department then give me a message and I can set you up with some info on the patient assistance program. I get 60 pills a month 100% free of charge.


Good Luck

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:21 am 
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Excuse me but WHAT!!?? Not much absorbtion happens in nasal cavity?? Um not trying to be a jerk but you don't have a clue how soboxone works my brother. Orange boogers? Haha no. I break off a peice of suboxone about the size of a crumb, around a sixteenth of a pill. What goes up my nose is a line as long as my pinky nail and thin as a pencil tip. Literally. A couple times a day. I have no reason to lie to the people I rely on for feedback on this. I don't even get a drip. I can taste it but no drip. ANYWAYS the suboxone works ONLY in the nasal cavity or in ur mouth or similiar mucous membrane tissue (lol rectum) and I'm saying if there is no health issues with the SMALL SMALL. Amount of suboxone in the nose then I'm OK with it. I know my attitude and intentions, so thank you for concerns about abuse and stuff, I COMPLETELY understand I would give the same advice. I think id rather do one or two pills a week rather than two a day like my doctor wants me to. I get paranoid about my health and am worried that suboxone is going toend up (like in ten years) being some awful drug because of long term effects like making us go insane or SOMETHING. There's a lot of nut jobs out there saying suboxone is EVIL and a scam...because ppl are stupid, they think suboxone is just a magic pill that takes away ur opiate addiction symptoms but REALLY all ur doing is taking a prescribed opiate. Were taking the same drug we were addicted to, but its prescribed and less intense. And that's OK, its a STEP in recovery. The next step is living without. Because if we were meant to live our life taking a pill, wed have a regenerating suboxone tree growing out of our shoulder (lol totally kidding), but I'm starting to think maybe there's something missing in my brain that suboxone helps. Like why do some ppl go to work sober and act happy n energetic..... but I can't? And even as a kid I always felt less ALIVE but opiates make me feel alive. Hmmmm...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:38 am 
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[quote="mayunholdup"]Ok, so we all know that swallowing subs greatly diminishes it effects, right? Well, when you snort something it goes up your nose, into your sinus and then drips down your throat, into your stomach. Basically, you're taking the long route in swallowing the pill. Some absorption will occur in the nasal cavity but not much. If anything, I think you are losing effectiveness this way and if you were to take it the proper way it would probably provide greater relief. You say you are not getting a drip but you are, you just can't feel it. People are swallowing boogers all day, it's a natural body function.

Quote)


I think I messed up the quote thing).....but anyways...I just want to say that everything you put there holds NO validity. That is bogus information and you say I AM getin drips? No I most certainly am not. A DRIP is a term used to describe a large amount of mucous caused by a powder in nasal cavity...it has a strong taste especially if its citrus flavored. I don't get a drip. And the whole thing about swallowing subs? That made me chuckle. Its complete non sense. That applies ZERO to my situation and has no credibility. Your logic is severly flawed and you have been misinformed oabout the drug and how it works. If you swallow a sub it won't work. I'm puttin a dusting of it into my nose. Not enough to even create a drip. Thanks for your help but that made no sense. Id be willing to clear up any misconceptions you have. Suboxone works by traveling across mucous membrane into small blood vessels below the surface of that membrane (ur nasal cavity is lined with that membrane) and its more surface area and it crosses thru easier than inside ur mouth. The nose is thee most effective way besides possibly the rectum to ingest suboxone. FACT. Remember I say EFFECTIVE


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:42 am 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
There is a HUGE difference between being addicted and being dependent. Addiction involves compulsion/compulsive behavior; poor control over their drug use; continued use of the drug despite harm; and cravings for the drug. Dependence doesn't involve any of those things. It just means when you take the drug away there are withdrawals. Here are some of the ways to know when someone is addicted: Taking medications at higher doses or more frequently than prescribed; ingesting drugs in ways other than prescribed; doctor shopping; multiple pharmacies; and frequent lost or stolen prescriptions.

I would argue vehemently that I am not addicted to suboxone. It's not causing me harm, I'm not taking more than prescribed, I take it as directed, I don't crave it...etc, etc, etc. I (we) are dependent on suboxone only.



Dude nobody saying ur addicted. Relax the topic is nasal use and long term effects.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:04 am 
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But I am a little concerned with how some posts say were not addicted to subs? Try gettin ur script takin away suddenely and let's see if addictive behaviors come back. Ill be looking for subs like I would be oxy and if I couldn't find it then I would look for oxy. We are only 24 hours from relapse if our script goes away...I wanted to stop doing pills so I sought out suboxone and used it because it made me feel not sick and cost less money....when I take suboxone I have no desire for MORE SUBOXONE. But if I go a whole day without suboxone I need MORE SUBOXONE. Haha but seriously I'm on drugs to get off drugs...genius. bupe is a narcotic, just not as good as oxy. But it works!


How is what you wrote NOT saying that people are addicted to suboxone? The last thing we need is for new members or guests to read this and get the impression from your words that if they start suboxone they'll just be addicted to it. I merely responded to what you said.

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