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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:41 pm 
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Wow bronzebeta, that's some good doc you have there. This time next year he'll be driving his new Bentley GT at this rate.
What a dirty dog.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:56 pm 
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That's horrible, bronzebeta. It's exactly that kind of vulnerability you're exposed to that makes me not want to be on Suboxone long term. That guy is flaunting his control over you and abusing it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Yeah, he's a entrepreneur who's found a niche that he can exploit to make a lot of money - I know exactly what he gets paid per person and it's staggering when you add it all up. That's another reason why he shoehorns us in the building at night and the wait is so long. Also, I don't think I was clear enough in my post, but he actually has no medical training whatsoever; he owns the building and has the one doctor working part time for him. His mother (who looks and sounds like Betty Davis right before she passed away) mans the front desk taking cash, checks and credit cards. His daughter takes care of the medical records, and he calls the shots, not the doctor. Until last year he had four doctors working there, but he let the other three go. One of the doctors was a really sweet woman too. The last time I saw her she looked very agitated and told me that she "Had to go!" but wouldn't go into any detail.

The thing that bothers me the most is that smirk on his face - it says, I've got you and there's nothing you can about it. I so want to go in there one day and tell him in front of the group that I don't need him or his medication anymore. In a way, he's worse than any drug dealer that I've ever met - taking advantage of decent people who find themselves in a bad way, and are just trying to get better.

Ah well! You know what they say about karma.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:04 pm 
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I am currently doing a slow, liquid taper. I am down to .5mgs once a day (I dose around noon).

My current formula is .5mgs Sub = .25ml of liquid. The only problem is that sometimes the liquid would slip out into my mouth, and was difficult to hold under my tongue for 10 mins. So I came up with the idea of using the oral syringe to drop the Sub solution into a cut-in-half cigarette filter. The filter absorbs the liquid Sub, then sits on top of a plastic ziplock bag while it dries. I will make four of these filters at a time, each having my .5mg daily dose within them.

It works really well, the Sub liquid is absorbed evenly. Just make sure your cigarette filter piece is large enough to hold all the liquid of each dose. You can experiment by squirting water on a filter piece to see how much it will absorb.

I put the small piece of filter under my tongue once a day and it works every time. The filter stays in place--no slipping or sliding, and all the orange color (from the Sub) has disappeared after 10-20 mins. Then I spit it out.

You can also use a small piece of cotton, but the cig filter is much more dense, and will absorb the Sub much better. In fact, you could even make up several pieces of filter and store them in a pill bottle after they've dried. It's really just a way of liquifying the Sub, then redistributing it into a "filter tablet" so to speak. I always worried about the liquid Sub mixture evaporating a little, making the liquid more concentrated, and my dose larger than I was aiming for.

I hope this helps someone. If anyone has any improvements for this method, please please reply or PM me. I can use all the help I can get. Thanks for reading,
AM


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:35 pm 
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<b>annmarie</b> - Excellent suggestion! Many of us have been tenacious and very creative (for lack of a better word) in obtaining our drug of choice when we were in active addiction, so it's nice to see some of that spirit and ingenuity carry over when it comes time to do battle with our demons. Please keep us updated with your progress.

My mixture has been 1mg per 1ml, which has been working pretty well. I've gone from 32mg to .6 in the last three months or so. I have some oral surgery scheduled in five days, so I'm going to hold off on my next drop till next week - wouldn't want to have a runny nose or break out in a sweat while the doctor is doing his thing.

Good luck to you, and welcome to the Suboxone forum.


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 Post subject: Liquid Taper Progress
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:49 pm 
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Thanks for the kind-hearted welcome. I feel so fortunate to have found this site!

I just came up with the "dried-out Sub-soaked filter thing a week ago, but it works very very well. Especially since I'd get mentally worked up if I thought even a tiny bit of liquid crept out and didn't get absorbed. (You know how the addict mind plays tricks...LOL)

I use 2mgs Sub per 1ml of liquid. I found that .25mls of liquid is the perfect amount to fit into the pieces of filter I have been cutting. I will continue to use the same .25mls on each filter for the the rest of my detox, but will decrease the amount of Sub I'm taking by adding in a little extra water each time I mix it up. They dry out in an hour or so, but I let them sit overnight just to be sure. It's great, you use the whole mixed up batch at once, so no evaporating/concentrating.

Therefore, each filter I've prepared has an equal dose. No more "How much was in that last crumb?" guesswork. When you get down this low, the slightest miscalculation of a tenth of a milligram is enough to cause withdrawal symptoms. I can't handle the surprise WD rollercoaster.

Currently, I'm stable on .5 mgs Sub/day, so my next concern is how low to go before I jump off, and how long do I need to stay at each incremental decrease. My body will be dictating that, but I do keep a chart so I can see my progress.

Any and all advice is gratefully appreciated. Try it out and tell me what you think, or any improvements you can come up with. Like, maybe there's something better than a cig filter. I'll keep posting as I make more progress.


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 Post subject: THANK YOU!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:03 pm 
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I've been on 16mg Sub for five years, and had some seriously bad experiences notso much because of the Sub but because of people's ignorance and fear. I was sorta thinking to get off it because it crimps my style but it seemed impossible.

Then owing to a bureaucratic snafu my script was delayed for almost half the month and i had to stretch what i had. I was amazed at how quickly and easily i tapered from 16mg to 6mg and held there, with only a bit of discomfort, and i began to have hope of tapering to nothing.

Then i discovered how very powerful 6mgs of Sub actually is, and i lost hope again.

These posts have restored my hope. No, better, they'e given me faith... i can do this.

Thanks, Diary, for the liquid technique. And Annmarie that is an awesome innovation. You should patent it. ;)

- joe


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 Post subject: YOU"RE WELCOME!!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Joe, You're Welcome! I came up with the filter trick out of sheer desperation for an accurate low dose, as human error managing crumbs and piles of powder resulted in continual surprise withdrawal symptoms for me.

Like you, much to my surprise, I began to realize that 1-2mgs of Sub is a lot stronger than I thought. I didn't have any problems or WD symptoms decreasing from 24mgs until I reached the 2mg mark. The liquid method is the way to go. From what I've been reading, the detox from 1mg Sub is similar to the detox from 15mgs of methadone. When you look at it that way, coming down to .25mgs Sub becomes a preferred reality. Unless you're into the "no pain, no gain" thing.

I have a long history of detoxes, and my body has become nothing short of evil with each successive detox attempt. Try to come off at a certain dose. You'll know pretty quickly if it'll work or not. Unfortunately, I have discovered that even .5mgs Sub is going to be too much for me. Others have jumped off just fine at that amount. You won't know until you've tried. Seems that patience is key here. I just wish I had known how long it would take a little earlier. By the time I was ready to detox (thinking I had a month or so to go), I was crushed to discover it was going to be much longer than that. I had to be realistic.

The upside?? A slow taper detox lets your body adjust with zero or minimal discomfort. And at the very end, you're not afraid of feeling horrible, it's not going to drag on hopelessly for weeks and weeks, and the PAWS should hardly be an issue. It makes complete sense.

Now, where do they sell "Patience" tablets? Cause I need some of those..


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:32 pm 
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That is such a neat idea! The cig filter thinggy! I actually just posted in another thread saying how annmarie has some great info, and I wanted to comment on the filter thing..... Very neat! Something else we can use to taper a bit easier. Thanks!!!



Last post towards annmarie click here






Thanks again Diary of a Quitter for the liquid taper method and annmarie and take care all!

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"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:17 pm 
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Maybe an hour or so after i'm so impressed with you folks for your innovations and your humanity, i am P***ED OFF that you had to figure it out for yourselves. I mean, it's really great that you did, but i'm reading around the interwebs and coming on all sorts of people in all sorts of misery because the medical/pharmaceutical establishment has NO such options and people are jumping from 2mg cause that's the smallest you can get.

But OTOH if we didn't do for ourselves i suppose we'd be at the mercy of doctors who might think we should stick to a program that might not be right for us, individually. NTM, some folks have expressed fear, for God's sake, that their doctors might find out they've been doing something unauthorized. Sad...

Ok got that out my system.

Questions, if i may:

    *Where do i get a syringe for such micro-doses? I've got an oral syringe here but it's marked in... um... 1/5 milliliter gradations. So it won't work when, (see i said when), i get down to .25mg.
    *I suck at math. It's ways off from here, but but how i'm gonna reckon the solution at different levels on the taper? I think maybe this warrants a spreadsheet or formula or something, that people can reference for the tapering process. I'm not inclined to ask my doctor for anything less than my 8mg tablets, because i'd prefer to hoard them in case anything goes wrong and so i have all the time i might need. But that means i can accurately break the tablets, at very best, into quarters and even then at these dosages i can imagine it getting tricky. Am i gonna need, at some point, to ask for 2mg tablets?
    *What exactly is the process for dissolving the tablets and getting the solution into the syringe? For instance, my oral syringe has a nipple on the business end which appears to hold almost a milliliter of liquid. I was just now experimenting with it and found it difficult to load it with say, 4ml of water without filling that nipple, thus, having to squirt some out in order to get air where the water is. When i get to doing this with Sub i obviously don't want to be squirting any of it out. Maybe i'm just stupid right now.
    *What's the (rough) consensus as to how long the taper should be? Annmarie, for instance, was bummed that it would be "much longer" than a month for her to get to .25mg from her current .5mg. I'm told that it will take me ~6 months to get my new knee working properly, and i was sorta hoping to use that same timetable to get off the Sub. Is this realistic, at common rates of reduction?


Apologies if the answers to these questions are scattered about. And i obviously have no use for the answers right now because all i want in the whole world is back on to my Sub at whatever dose works. But i AM gonna do this, and it would be nice to have the whole process and all the maths and cigarette filter tricks etc. articulated in one place for those who might be stumbling around the interweb looking for help, now. I might could make my own answers if my brain worked, but meanwhile just seeing people actually doing these things is so very heartening i could almost cry.

Thanks again,
- joe


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:12 am 
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Hi Joe, and welcome.

I've come to the conclusion that many doctors don't have a clue as to what they're doing when it comes to Suboxone. You really have to educate yourself - kinda crazy if you ask me, but that's just the way it is.

It's almost 3:00AM, but I'll try to answer some of your questions before I knock off.

You can get another oral syringe from CVS. When I asked what section they were in, the pharmacist said they didn't sell them, but she would be glad to give me a few - one 1mg and one 5mg. If they ask you what it's for, just say it's to dose one of your children their medication. You already have the 5ml one, which is great - that's what I use to measure the water for the mixture. I use the 1ml one to actually dose myself.

I'd stick with the 8mg tablets. It's just as easy to mix them if you have the equipment, they cost less per mg, and you can stock up on them as you taper down. My own mixture right now is 1mg for every 1ml, but you can play with that as you go along. I put a little sticker on the bottles that I've made up detailing the potency of each mixture. I take one of my pill bottles, and with the 5ml syringe measure 24ml of warm water into it. I then put in three 8mg pills, let it sit for 5 or 10 minutes, and just swirl it around a little. The pills should be desolved by then anyway. I draw the liquid up, then, keeping the tip still in the mix, squirt it back in and draw it again so there's no air bubble. I'm not sure I know what you mean about the nipple messing up the amount that you draw - if it says 1ml it's 1ml and that little area is accounted for when it was designed.

Once you get close to - and under - 1mg per day, you have to slow your taper down because it takes your body longer to get accustomed to it than when you were tapering from the higher doses.

Really got to get to bed, 'cause I can barely keep my eyes open. If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

Take care.


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 Post subject: Down to .5mg
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:35 am 
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I just wrote a novel of a post that dissapeared into the ether because I was supposedly not logged in. Grrr Argh!!!

Anyway, the short version is - my dose is now at .50mg and everything is going ok so far. Time to get my butt back into the gym I think.

Hope everyone is doing well.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:32 pm 
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I am stable on .5mgs, doing a liquid taper. I dose twice a day. I've read many posts, and it seems the rule of thumb is larger dose in the morning, smaller dose in the evening. So typically, I take my larger dose in the morning (.35mg @ 7am) and the smaller dose in the evening (.15mg @ 6pm). I am good to go all day, but start getting what I affectionately refer to as "a little crunchy" in the evening. The 6pm smaller dose is enough to chase it away, but I start tossing & turning/waking up around 4-5am.

Here's my question: Has anyone ever tried flipping their doses? That is, taking the small amount in early morning to chase the "crunch" away, then taking the larger dose in the afternoon? I'm thinking the small dose will stave off the WD for several hours while my mind is occupied during the morning, and I may sleep better if I took the larger dose closer to bedtime. Do you think it would be better to "scrape through the morning" if it meant I would sleep through the night? Cause I have to tell you, this repeated lack of sleep thing is probably just aggravating and worsening my WD symptoms.

Ultimately, I would like to get back to dosing once a day, but since I've started tapering down, the Sub seems to "wear off" early evening. I may also want to mention, that I am currently not taking anything for sleep, over the counter or otherwise. If I can save the sleep meds for the final jump, that would be ideal.

If anyone's tried this, or dosed like this, could you fill me in on what to expect? Or if it works/makes for better sleep? Thanks in advance! Annmarie


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 Post subject: Dosing
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:38 pm 
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Hi annmarie,

Lack of sleep can make the day seem like it's neverending, so maybe you should try breaking your dose up a little more evenly; it's worth a shot anyway. I'm taking .25 in the morning now and the same in the evening, which has been working well for me. Last Saturday I even forgot to take my night dose. Now that's something that would never have happened with the oxycontin... not in a million years. I do take something to help me sleep though, as I have for many years now for insomnia, but I've been cutting back on them for about a month now so they'll be more effective when I finally stop taking the sub. Clonodine is something that I'm waiting till the end to use too... every little thing I can think of I'm going to try.

I took a brisk half hour walk today, and worked up a little bit of a sweat - it actually felt pretty good. From what I gather, it seems like most of the people who have successfully weaned were doing some king of exercise routine toward the end of their taper, whether cardio, weight training or both. In the past exercise has always been of some help with my sleep problems, as long as I don't do it within 3 hours of going to bed.

Besides a little sleep disturbance before I adapt to each reduction, my legs throb at night. It doesn't exactly hurt, it's just a weird sensation, like I can feel the blood rushing through them with every heartbeat. I have a low grade headache at times as well, and I'm very grouchy - I caught a few kids trying to whack a goose with sticks today and I almost lost my mind. I lost my temper, but in my defense, I've always loved animals... plus, for the last few years I've worked at a wildlife rehab center, and that kind sick behaviour is something I just can't tolerate.

Well, those are the negatives... but on the plus side, some of the side effects of the sub have gone away - the nodding, the constipation, and the lack of a sex drive, so that's something to be very pleased about.

Best of luck to you, and I hope you'll continue to keep us updated on your progress.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:34 am 
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Hey Bronze!

First, congrats on reaching the .5mg mark!! I know how disciplined/patient you must have been to get there. Your dosing regimen makes perfect sense: the same quantity every 12 hours. It seems delivering an even amount of Sub could banish the WD rollercoaster I've been on. Tomorrow, I will adjust my dosing schedule and try it your way. Thank you SO MUCH for the advice. We are all different (what works for one person may or may not work for another), but I think it's important to stay open-minded and try out other options. We are the guinea pigs for this drug. If the Drs had all the answers, we wouldn't need these forums.

You wrote:
"Last Saturday I even forgot to take my night dose. Now that's something that would never have happened with the oxycontin... not in a million years."

I've done that, too. That is why I love the Sub so much: very low psychological addiction/craving. I have friends who have tapered down to crumbs, forgotten to take them a day or two, then realized it had been several days or even a week since their last dose. I believe the skipping days helped with the half-life, greatly lessening their WD symptoms. When you feel fine, it is easy to forget to take it.

Like you, I am a chronic insomniac. Over the years, I have been on almost everything for sleep. But I also quit taking those meds about two months ago with the aim of lowering my tolerance- saving the Rx for the end of my taper. I get a few leg twitches at night, but so far so good. It's the "losing my mind/temper" part that is hardest to deal with right now. I have also gone inappropriately ballistic over the slightest thing. I have warned all my friends that I will be crazy for the next month or so, but I still feel very guilty for my outbursts. Sometimes I think I should've gotten dropped off on Detox Island for awhile. I have been trying to have a lot of quality "alone time." The mood swings are horrible. At times I feel like I've picked up a mental illness.

I also get that constant headache. I've heard it's quite common during the detox. Some people have added salt to their diet due to all the sweating/dehydration we are going through. I read about a special Alkaline diet (eating alkaline foods to change the ph of the body, thus creating an anti-inflammatory environment) that can greatly reduce WD symptoms. This diet was specifically recommended for anyone with an autoimmune disease, cancer, or someone going through an opiate detox. I just started eating differently, so it's a bit too early to tell if it's helping.

Exercise has seriously helped. I've noticed that people report it's hard to do, but will provide some relief. They are SPOT ON!! I do 2 or 3 ten minute sessions of weight lifting every day, especially if my legs start up. I'll look at them and say, "OK Crazy Legs, you wanna move? Well, I'll move you..." I get up and crank out some squats. It DOES help!!! However, just doing 10 minutes of exercise makes me so tired that I often take a nap afterward. So sad. I know that patients who have had leg surgery/broken legs, etc. are advised to elevate them above the heart to prevent that throbbing. This can be done with a pillow/foam wedge or by putting a few books under the bedposts. I'm sorry that's happening to you. I know how annoying it can be.

I have also noticed that I do not feel WD symptoms when I decrease my dose by 10-12% or less. Any greater decrease, and I start to feel crunchy. Lately, I have been decreasing about 7% every 2-3 days with no problems. I have been keeping a record of my taper, and will post it when I have enough useful information collected.

Again, thank you for responding! Keep me posted about your progress as well. It feels really good to know that I am not going through this alone.

Annmarie


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 Post subject: Thank You!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:57 pm 
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Thank you annmarie. It's very comforting to be going through this taper with you.

I've changed my diet as well - fruit and oatmeal in the morning, less fats and higher protein foods later in the day. I'm going to check out a few gyms in my area tomorrow, with the hopes that one has a pool. Right now, some form of exercise that's easy on my joints would be the way to go for me.

I hope the dose change helps with your sleep. This afternoon I took a 20 minute nap, which I kind of regret because I want to be as tired as possible at night.

I'm trying to decide how much to reduce my dose at this point. One thing that I would like to follow through with - which I may have mentioned - is to get down to an extremely low daily dose before I jump... say .10mgs or lower. It feels like my body is undergoing some repair work right now, and the longer and lower I go with my dose, the more damage I may be able to repair.

Today I had a root canal and some other dental work done, then I went to the clinic and waited for about two hours to see the doctor to get my prescription. I'm a hurtin' puppy right now, but it really wasn't all that bad. The dentist wanted to give me vicodin for the pain, but I told him I was all set. He said "Well! I don't hear that very often.... you're a trooper!" And I'm thinking to myself "Yeah, I'm a trooper all right!" :)

Keep me updated on your progress and I'll do the same.

Take care.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:38 pm 
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eeeewww, Bronzey-B, ...the dreaded "no pain meds" dentist visit. You are incredible! That Rx was just within reach and you said NO! Give yourself a huge round of applause cause you're being very proactive with your recovery. You should definitely be proud of yourself!!

I am also going to taper down to a ridiculously tiny tiny dose. I think that's the best way to escape heavy WD symptoms. I need more patience. I just want it all to be over with asap. But slow and steady seems to be the most painless path.

Like you, my concern is how much to decrease, how long to stay at each dose, etc. I've read that a good rule of thumb is once you've been taking the same amount every day for 4 days in a row with NO withdrawal symptoms, you can go ahead and decrease again. (You MUST go 4 days in a row.) Until recently, I had been decreasing by increments of .05mgs every 3 days (approx. a 7-10% decrease) without any problems. I don't feel great in the evening, but I don't feel bad enough to take anything, either.

I have read posts where people highly recommend staying at a low dose for a few weeks at some point to level out for awhile. I guess that gives your body time to adjust. (I'm planning to sit at .2 or .25 for a while.)

Tomorrow I'm going down another .05, so I will let you know what that does, if anything. I will then be on .45/day. Wish me luck, LOL. Thank you for finding this forum, and going through this with me, even if we are total strangers. I know you (and everyone here) understand the anxieties I am having. And frankly, my friends are sick of hearing about it, as they don't really get it. If my next decrease goes horribly wrong for whatever reason, I'll post you immediately. Please do the same for me. I know we can figure this out, and see it through to the end.

Thanks again, BB!


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 Post subject: Cotton filters
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:43 pm 
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I love the filter idea, but I just wonder one thing?, aren't cigarette filters made of fiberglass?. If so?, that may not be a good thing, as it breaks down and small pieces of silica could be working their way into your stomach?. I am not a Dr, but this may be a bad thing? :roll:


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 Post subject: making progress
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:43 pm 
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<b>annmarie</b> - Good for you, going down another 10%. You have a great attitude and you're doing fantastic.

I may not get a chance to post everyday, but if you run into any difficulties at all, please feel free to contact me asap. We both seem to have the same mindset right now, trying to rush something that shouldn't be rushed. Like you, I'm just so damn anxious to be done with it that I have to remind myself to stay focused and keep to the game plan. I'm going to stay at .50 for the next week or so to make sure I'm stabilized. I haven't decided yet. At the beginning of my taper, I made a pact with myself that I wouldn't take more sub once I made a reduction, even if I didn't feel well. The only exception would be if I had an urge at any time to use my doc, and that hasn't been an issue to date.

I know what you mean about the importance of having a kindred soul. This is quite a big deal to me, but the two people I've confided in really don't want to hear about it.

Keep me updated, and remember one thing - we're already a success... just look at what we've accomplished so far. We may have some not-so-good days along the way, but I really think we're going to be just fine in the long run.


<b>superdog</b> Years ago I remember discussing this subject with a college instructor. He said it was just a myth and that cigarette filters were made of wood and cotton. It's very possible that trace amounts of fiberglass were found mixed in with tobacco at some point, and I think that's probably where the story originates.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:22 pm 
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Believe it or not volume and concentration calculations are very simple. On the other hand, solubilities and the various interactions of different substances in solution are not. In fact, even chemists must simplify every chance they get in order to avoid getting equations that may take hours to solve by hand.

There are a few concerns I have about the liquid method (although it probably isn't a huge deal). The solubility of buprenorphine may be affected by other solids in the pill. For example, if a solution is saturated (which means, it can't hold any more solid) no other solids can "fit into" the solution. A few milligrams is a minuscule amount but it could still be affected. Of course, this is only of concern in solutions in which there is remaining solid or "gel" (i.e. they are relatively concentrated).

Determining the concentration and volume of solutions is extremely easy. For example, if you have an 8 mg pill and dissolve it in 16 mL of water, the concentration will be 8/16 or .5 mg/mL (a cc or cm^3 is the same as a mL). If you dissolve an 8 mg pill in 26.2 mL of water... guess what? The conc. will be 8/26.2 or ~0.3 mg/mL. This means that at that conc. you will need to take 3 mL to get a (3 x 0.3) 0.9 mg dose. If you dissolve 8 mg in 10 mL or water your conc. will be (8/10) 0.8 mg/mL. If 2 mL evaporates off before you take any, your new conc. will be (8/(10 - 2)) 1 mg/mL.

A drop or two of ethanol (grain alcohol) per mL (or perhaps less if that bothers you) should dramatically increase the solubility of buprenorphine (I will not explain the chemistry reasoning but just trust me). This probably won't be an issue, but it's a good way to be safe b/c you want ALL of the bupe to dissolve the first time.

These pills have a mass of a little less than 400 mg so that means (w/w) they are ~98% filler. (97.5% if you count naloxone) It's been a while since I've looked at the composition of the pills but they contain about 380 mg of binders, fillers, other salts etc... that might affect the solubility of buprenorphine. It's a complex situation, though. Really, I wouldn't worry so much about it. The effect will be very small if it even exists.

Also, you can preserve your solutions by adding 1 drop of benzyl alcohol per 8 mL of solution. This will not hurt you but still be aware that you can't just drink benzyl alcohol in large amounts. You can usually get it from a local compounding pharmacy (ask for benzyl alcohol USP and tell them you need it to preserve some stuff).

I must go now but I will be perfectly willing to answer any questions anyone has as far as pharmacology and chemistry go.

I plan on making an Excel document to help people with the calculations, also.

And cigarette filters are composed of cellulose acetate.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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