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 Post subject: What a ride!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:15 am 
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Update time - hope everyone is doing well.

A few days after my last post I sustained a cervical injury - C4-C5, C5-C6 and C6-C7. A fragment of one disc got wedged between the cord and bone causing my left arm to lose most of its strength, loss of sensation to my thumb, middle, and index finger, as well as some pretty intense pain constantly radiating from the neck, shoulder, tricep area and forearm. Long story short... went to a nearby clinic, was offered pain meds (refused because I was scared to death I was going to end up getting hooked again) and was refered to a neurologist. Two days later things were much worse so I drove to the nearest hospital at six in the morning. After spending 7 hours on a gurney I was transfered to the state hospital by ambulance and was told a surgeon had been called in and would be speaking with me - possible surgery that same day. Six hours later an associate of that same doctor arrived and said he got tied up and couldn't make it. He gave me a list of surgeons and said that after I was discharged to call around asap when I got home to see which one could take me the soonest. Found one the next day that could do the job in 3 weeks. Had titanium plates screwed in and cadaver bone grafts done on the 27th. I woke up with a morphine drip, catheter inserted (God, I hate those things), pain pretty much gone from the shoulder and arm, hand still numb but less so, and a big ass gash at the front of my throat. Discharged the next morning, and at this point - I hate to say it - I was ready for the pain meds. If I were to do it over again I would have taken the meds prior to the surgery instead of suffering for three weeks in bed with ice-packs every few hours, but I just didn't trust myself. Well, I was taking 60 to 80mgs (I was using ten times that amount prior to going on suboxone) of oxy per day until about a week ago and blew off my appointment with the pain management pros (my wife rescheduled my appointment for the 9th but I'm concerned that they're going to offer me whatever I want but really don't need, and that it's going to be hard to refuse, so I may just blow that one off too).

Anyway, things are going pretty well - everything considered. Now I can blame my lousy guitar playing on a bum hand - I'm hopeful it will improve over time - for the rest of my life. :) I'm back to 4-5 mile walks everyday as of 3 days ago and can't wait to be cleared to do at least some push-ups or something for my upper body. I've gone from 210lbs with a 33'- 34" waist to 200lbs/36"... one arm is bigger than the other and I look like I've been in a knife fight - what a mess. :) On Oct 2nd and 3rd I have to go to the State University to be tested for my Wildlife Rehab recertification so I've been boning up on that while I recover - it's hard to believe I'll be 50 years old on the day I take that test... why couldn't we stay 35 forever?

Take care everyone!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:30 am 
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Hey, 5 yrs ago I had C5,C6 and C7 fused together ( the 4 yrs leading up to the surgery is how I got hooked on pain pills ) the surgery was a 100% success, my arm is working fine... Stay Positive , Mike 1mg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:02 am 
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Thanks Mike,

I really appreciate you sharing that with me... our situations seem similar - my problem developed after a shoulder injury, surgery, and about 4 years worth of oxy use, and then abuse.

Hopefully, it's just going to take some time for the hand to get back to normal.

..............................................................................................................................................................................

Liquid taper - continuation of the water to Suboxone ratios from my May 25 post! (trying to keep things sort of on topic)

8 milligrams of Suboxone to 61 millileters of water - 1ml = .131mgs

8mg/62ml ---- 1ml = .129mgs
8mg/63ml ---- 1ml = .1269mgs
8mg/64ml ---- 1ml = .125mgs
8mg/65ml ---- 1ml = .123mgs
8mg/66ml ---- 1ml = .121mgs
8mg/67ml ---- 1ml = .119mgs
8mg/68ml ---- 1ml = .117mgs
8mg/69ml ---- 1ml = .115mgs
8mg/70ml ---- 1ml = .114mgs
8mg/71ml ---- 1ml = .112mgs
8mg/72ml ---- 1ml = .111mgs
8mg/73ml ---- 1ml = .109mgs
8mg/74ml ---- 1ml = .108mgs
8mg/75ml ---- 1ml = .106mgs
8mg/76ml ---- 1ml = .105mgs
8mg/77ml ---- 1ml = .103mgs
8mg/78ml ---- 1ml = .102mgs
8mg/79ml ---- 1ml = .101mgs
8mg/80ml ---- 1ml = .100mgs
8mg/81ml ---- 1ml = .098mgs
8mg/82ml ---- 1ml = .097mgs
8mg/83ml ---- 1ml = .096mgs
8mg/84ml ---- 1ml = .095mgs
8mg/85ml ---- 1ml = .094mgs
8mg/86ml ---- 1ml = .093mgs
8mg/87ml ---- 1ml = .091mgs
8mg/88ml ---- 1ml = .090mgs
8mg/89ml ---- 1ml = .089mgs
8mg/90ml ---- 1ml = .088mgs
8mg/91ml ---- 1ml = .087mgs
8mg/92ml ---- 1ml = .0869mgs
8mg/93ml ---- 1ml = .086mgs
8mg/94ml ---- 1ml = .085mgs
8mg/95ml ---- 1ml = .084mgs
8mg/96ml ---- 1ml = .083mgs
8mg/97ml ---- 1ml = .082mgs
8mg/98ml ---- 1ml = .081mgs
8mg/99ml ---- 1ml = .0808mgs
8mg/100ml --- 1ml = .080mgs
8mg/101ml --- 1ml = .079mgs
8mg/102ml --- 1ml = .078mgs
8mg/103ml --- 1ml = .077mgs
8mg/104ml --- 1ml = .0769mgs
8mg/105ml --- 1ml = .076mgs
8mg/106ml --- 1ml = .075mgs
8mg/107ml --- 1ml = .0747mgs
8mg/108ml --- 1ml = .074mgs
8mg/109ml --- 1ml = .073mgs
8mg/110ml --- 1ml = .0727mgs
8mg/111ml --- 1ml = .072mgs
8mg/112ml --- 1ml = .071mgs
8mg/113ml --- 1ml = .0707mgs
8mg/114ml --- 1ml = .070mgs
8mg/115ml --- 1ml = .069mgs

Well, that brings you down to 69 micrograms. The lower dose, the easier the jump - I went down to 12.5 micrograms per day, and the jump was fairly uneventful.

Bill


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:19 am 
bronzebeta: Sorry to hear about your injury - it sounds horrible. But good for you getting through all that without relapsing! (especially with having to have morphine and painkillers). Good luck on the wildlife rehab, and thanks for coming back and sharing your story.
Lilly


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 Post subject: Thank You
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:30 pm 
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Thanks Lilly,

I think that's been the hardest part of this whole mess... not relapsing. The temptation to abuse under these conditions did seem overwhelming at times and I know I'll be tested again... I just hope I'll be up to it the next time I have to deal with a craptastic medical event.

Best,
Bill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:14 pm 
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Your taper looks promising. It will take a year to taper down to 10 micro grams or 10e-6 grams. It's amazing that sub works at these doses. I hope I'm up for it. Unfortunately, I'm too much of a baby to deal with WD these days...I just enjoy feeling comfortable and stress free, which will make jumping of .1 mg too difficult.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:02 pm 
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Hi Mike,

Sorry about the late reply. Yeah, the lower you go, the easier the jump... and you're right, sub is much stronger than many people think. Even though I weaned down to an extremely low dose, I did feel some withdrawal symptoms at the end of day 3 lasting till the end of day 5 - no paws to speak of though, which was one of my biggest fears.

Best,
Bill


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 Post subject: Starting taper
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Hey everybody,

I've been reading all the posts for some time now and I'm finally ready to post. I've been on suboxone for 3 1/2 years and I'm finally ready to get off of it and live my life opiate free for the first time in 8 years. I had a car accident in 2002 and damaged my knee and back and started out with perc 5's and ended up at 400 to 600mg's of oxy a day. I was ready to give up on life and tired of the everyday struggle of worrying where and if I'm gonna get my fix for the day it's very exhaustive as most if not all of you already know. I've been on 4 subs pretty much the entire 3 1/2 years and I've worked my way down to 1 tab a day and go right back up to 4 a day and now im finally ready to give it up. I've been taking 2 for a while and I'm going to 1 1/2 tomorrow and stay there for at least 2 weeks since it's a pretty big decrease. Then I plan to decrease by 2 mg's till I get to 2 mg's and then plan to use the liquid method and decrease by 10%. I'm excited and scared at the same time but I just wanna be done with it I don't wanna be a slave to it anymore and the $260 could be put to good use elsewhere. It's nice to see some success stories it gives me hope and there is a lot of useful info about using the liquid taper method, thanks for the motivating stories and info.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:21 pm 
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I went to my Dr. Today and got the sub strips they're pretty cool and you can cut them up into pretty small pieces easily. I took 14mgs today and yesterday and I could prob get away with only 10 or 12. I've always dosed once a day but since I've reduced to 12 to 14 mg's I've been a little more tired in the evening so today I tried taking 8 mg's at 6 in the morning and 4 mg's at 4 o'clock in the afternoon and it's 10:30 now and I don't feel as drained so I might give that a try for a few days see how it works out so we'll see


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:22 pm 
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Diary of a Quitter wrote:
A while back, Dr. Junig brought up (on his blog) one of the problems with tapering off Suboxone - the fact that you can't get pills in low enough doses to taper comfortably. He suggested a way around this problem: dissolve the Suboxone pills in a small amount of water so that you can measure out smaller doses and taper in smaller increments.


Hi DOAQ (et al). This is probably a stupid question and I apologize if it's been covered elsewhere. But I am starting to think about my liquid taper. I would like to start by dissolving 10MG into 10ML of water to have a daily dose of 1MG. But I only want to stay there for 3 days and then move down to about .75 per day. Here is my question. At the end of 3 days I should have 7MG left in 7ML of water. Is there any reason why I cannot simply add 3 more ML of water to dilute the remaining solution and stir it up in order to get a daily dose of .7mg per 1ML? It would make more sense to do that than to simply toss the solution and start again with 7MG of sub. But I wasn't sure if adding more water later would screw up the solution somehow or if the sub is soluble enough so that it will still diffuse across any subsequent water added.

If so, I am thinking of a schedule like this, where my dose decreases every 3 days. All utilizing the original 10MG of Sub.

MG--ML--MG/1ML
10--10--1
7--10--0.7
4.9--10--0.49
3.43--10--0.343
2.401--10--0.2401
1.6807--10--0.16807

Thanks for any advice.

Matt


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:51 pm 
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Yeah, that would work.

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-Jack Kornfield


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:45 pm 
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Ugh sorry to do this. But I keep reading elsewhere that Bupe is only slightly soluble in water and more soluble in fats/oils and alcohol. Does this matter at all for the liquid taper? Would the doses be more accurate if Bupe was crushed in say vodka instead of water? (I don't drink much alcohol btw - so no excitement at the prospect) Just wondering.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:17 pm 
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Bupe has a solubility of 17mg per 1 ml of water, so I don't think you have anything to worry about if you're putting 10mgs into 10 ml of water. You could put 170mgs into that much water and it would still be fine.

You could use vodka, bupe's solubility in alcohol is 42mgs per 1 ml, but it would burn your mouth and there really isn't any point since you're not trying to make some super-concentrated solution.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:30 pm 
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Diary of a Quitter wrote:
Bupe has a solubility of 17mg per 1 ml of water, so I don't think you have anything to worry about if you're putting 10mgs into 10 ml of water. You could put 170mgs into that much water and it would still be fine.

You could use vodka, bupe's solubility in alcohol is 42mgs per 1 ml, but it would burn your mouth and there really isn't any point since you're not trying to make some super-concentrated solution.


Excellent - thanks so much!


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 Post subject: QUESTION!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:03 pm 
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I have a question. :?:
I read as much as possible on this particular thread
and I keep wondering about this so I guess I'm just going to ask:

Will the liquid method work on the FILM?
Not that I'm anywhere near ready to taper down that low,
where I would need to utilize the liquid method, but I am
curious as to whether or not anyone has tried it...
or if there's some other secret potion to use? (lol)
Thanks for any feedback!
C.i.R.
:?:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:59 pm 
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I am such a wimp compared to y'all. I've been on 0.10 mg/day for over a month, and spent the past 3 days at 0.03 mg, which is just 1 or 2 drops in the dropper, and I am afraid to just jump.

I"m going to NA meetings to get a support system in place.


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 Post subject: Update
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:05 pm 
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Just a little update on my situation. It's been about 8 or 9 months now (not sure on the exact date) since my taper ended and things have been going really well. It's funny how at the beginning I was counting hours and days since my last dose of Sub and now I can't even remember exactly how many months it's been. :)

Happy Holidays!!! Hope everyone had a nice Christmas.





PS: My computer's been in the fritz for quite some time, so if anyone has tried to send me email recently and didn't get a response, please feel free to send another.


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 Post subject: Success
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:24 am 
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Well, today makes it one year since my last dose of Suboxone and approximately two years since the Oxycontin/Morphine/Fentanyl madness ended. I just wanted to thank everyone who helped me out when I needed it the most... in particular, DiaryofaQuitter, for posting about her experience with the liquid taper method - I found the information she provided invaluable.

I sincerely wish every one of you posting at this site the best of luck! No matter what path you take, I commend you all for your desire to better yourselves.

Take care,
Bill


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:39 pm 
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Congrats, Bill! That is awesome news.

I want to thank you for continuing to come back and post updates on your success. I'm sure your story has inspired many people and given them hope that it is possible to stop Suboxone without your eyeballs falling out.

I hope this next 12 months brings you continued growth and much happiness. Take care :D

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:57 am 
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I have a quesion, can I use the suboxone film to put in water or do I need to use the regular pill......


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