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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:28 pm 
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Also, what does PAWS stand for?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:39 am 
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hawker1 wrote:
Also, what does PAWS stand for?


Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. It starts within a week or two of the end of opiate withdrawal symptoms. The longer you have been on opiates the worse it tends to be, the longer the half-life of the opiate you have been using, the longer PAWS tends to last.

Here's a link to a quick primer on PAWS: http://www.ehow.com/about_5038806_post- ... iates.html?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:38 pm 
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Euphemism wrote:
Hi Diary,

Do you have a target date for when your taper will be finished? What dose do you plan to end with?


Good question Euph. I'm on .3mgs now (approximately, since I had to eyeball the pill fragments), and I have about 7 days worth of that solution left.

My plan was to then go to .2mgs for 10 days, .1mgs for ten days, and then stop. I would still have 1mg left of Sub at that point.

I have to kind of play it by ear though. If a reduction is too overwhelming because of life or hormones or whatever, I step back a little and give myself time to work through it.

UPDATE

I'm on .3 mgs and doing fine. I take my dose all at once in the morning now, have been for a few weeks. Every morning I have chills and yawn a bunch and my eyes tear up a bit. That goes away once I dose.

My legs tend to get achy, but I also have fibro, so who knows. Today a long, hot bath worked that out for me.

I'm still getting headaches later in the day, but not as bad as they were. Don't know if this is w/d related or not.

Emotionally, things are strange. In some ways I feel like crap, but in other ways I feel better. Idle time seems to be the worst thing for me. If I'm forced to motivate by some external factor, I'm pretty much fine. Left to my own devices, I'm an apathetic lump. Time for self-discipline, I suppose.

Thinking about signing up for massage therapy school. I also just finished my associates degree, so I could go for my chemical-dependency liscense.

So I guess my advice for myself continues to be: Don't dwell on it, stay busy, try to keep moving forward.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:44 am 
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Diary of a Quitter wrote:
My legs tend to get achy, but I also have fibro, so who knows. Today a long, hot bath worked that out for me.


A jacuzzi works even better if you have access to one.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:55 pm 
Hey DOAQ -

It sounds like you were on Suboxone for 1 1/2 years before starting your water taper. How much Suboxone were you taking in the very beginning? Like your first 6 months.

The water taper sounds great btw! I will definitely be doing it when the time comes.

How are you feeling today?

Thanks,
Patrick


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:44 pm 
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dear diary, (had to say that lol). if u dont mind -what state r u in? i wanted some info on ur associates degree and chemical dependancy license??? im in w.v. and i really want to go back to school. the only thing that interests me at this point is helping others deal with their issues with addiction. i would love to do counseling and have felt that way ever since rehab about 5 yeas ago. i cannot find any 2 year programs that are close to home they r all 4. i would much rather do 2 yr associates with some continuing education classes along the way-as i am 33 years old and would like to get this done as quickly as possible (yea we all want that instant gratification) and what exactly is a chemical dependancy license? i have never heard that term used before. any iformation u could give me would be helpful. glad ur on the right track :)-mackenzy


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:35 am 
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Quote:
Hey DOAQ -

It sounds like you were on Suboxone for 1 1/2 years before starting your water taper. How much Suboxone were you taking in the very beginning? Like your first 6 months.

The water taper sounds great btw! I will definitely be doing it when the time comes.

How are you feeling today?

Thanks,
Patrick


Hey Patrick - I started off at 14mgs for about a month, then 16 for about a month (after I flunked out of the Probuphine trial), and then I started tapering down. I was having too much sedation at the higher dose, nodding out in my car and whatnot.

I think I stayed at 8mg for a couple of months and then the better part of the next year I stayed at 4mgs.

I was down to 2mgs for a couple of months, and dropped to 1mg a few weeks before I started the water taper.

I started the water taper in mid-May, so it's taken me 2 months to drop from .8mgs to .3mgs, painstakingly slow but so far I've successfully avoided most of the crappy withdrawal symptoms. Yay!

I'm glad I could be the test subject for this method and I really hope my experience will be helpful someone.

How am I feeling today? Suprisingly good. I had a couple of rough patches the past few days - just feeling really frustrated and angry over pretty trivial stuff. I kinda blew up and yelled and stomped around because of something pretty silly, and I was upset with myself for losing my temper and acting in a not-very-like-me way.

But I realized that my frustration had been building all day, lots of small annoying stuff adding up, and I wasn't recognizing it. Also, I hadn't gotten any exercise and I'd been cooped up in a hot house with a hyper 7 year old.

So, using my brand-new life management skills, I thought of some ways to deal. I took the kid to the park for a picnic and a hike, spent some time with friends, and presto, much better.

I guess this was a very long-winded way of saying: I'm adjusting. Today I didn't have any weird emotional outbursts and was busy and productive all day. I was in a good mood at work, meditated this afternoon and have been hanging out with the family. I am ready for my kid to go to bed, however. :wink:

Physically, I was totally fine today. I've been eating lots of fresh fruit and veggies and drinkng a TON of water, which has helped.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:28 am 
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MACKENZY3376 wrote:
dear diary, (had to say that lol). if u dont mind -what state r u in? i wanted some info on ur associates degree and chemical dependancy license??? im in w.v. and i really want to go back to school. the only thing that interests me at this point is helping others deal with their issues with addiction. i would love to do counseling and have felt that way ever since rehab about 5 yeas ago. i cannot find any 2 year programs that are close to home they r all 4. i would much rather do 2 yr associates with some continuing education classes along the way-as i am 33 years old and would like to get this done as quickly as possible (yea we all want that instant gratification) and what exactly is a chemical dependancy license? i have never heard that term used before. any iformation u could give me would be helpful. glad ur on the right track :)-mackenzy


Hi Mackenzy3376 - I live in WA, I got my AA degree from a community college. It's a transfer degree as I intend to eventually get my BA and hopefully go to grad school. In my state, you can become a licensed Chemical Dependency Professional (CDP) by earning an AAS in Chemical Dependency Counseling from a community college and then doing an internship. The AAS takes about a year to complete, and then the internship is a certain amount of supervised hours, I"m not sure how many, but you do get paid during that time.

As far as I know, in my state that is the quickest way to get into a counseling job. Most other jobs require an MA at least.

You should talk to the career counselors at your local CC and see what they say. And I know what you mean about wanting to get done. I'm 36 and it took me 5 years off and on to get my AA. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:46 pm 
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Great Job DOAQ,
You inspire me. This is my first time on the internet to look for support with my suboxone tapper problem. Yours was the first post I read and I find it kinda ironic that you have fibro, as fibro is what started my addiction problem to begin with.
I've been taking suboxone since February and I'm so sick of it, I honestly wish I had just tried harder to stop the opiate addiction cold turkey, I feel like I just replaced it. I mean yes, the suboxone is much cheaper and I don't feel as much like a drug addict when taking it but I honestly can't stand it. I've tried and tried and I can't stop it. The withdraws are so bad, the cold chills and the restless legs are the least of my problems, the mood swings and depression are way more than I can handle, but the worst of the worst is the fibro, I feel like the withdraw symptoms from the suboxone aggravates the fibro so bad it's unbearable. As if the fibro fog isn't bad enough by it's self, but the suboxone + fibro fog can make you insane. I have considered using opiates to try and come off the suboxone, I just don't know what to do.
I was wondering if you could tell me what your doing to control your fibro now that your coming off the suboxone. I was taking lyrica but my suboxone doctor took me off of it, said I couldn't take it with suboxone? :?:
Thanks,
Jen


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Hi Jen - I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with your fibro. It's a really frustrating illness to be sure, and there's so little help for us.

Suboxone actually helped me deal with my pain quite a bit. Not quite as well as full-agonist opiates, but enough to make it easier for me to focus my energy on making progress, rather than just getting through, if you know what I mean. I think it was better for me in the end to not have as much pain relief, because I got into a cycle where I would take opiates, then over-exert myself, feel worse, take more opiates, and presto - addiction! With Sub I was more aware of my pain level and could develop self-care plans accordingly.

I don't know why your doctor said you can't have Lyrica with Sub. My Sub doctor was just talking to me about Lyrica today and he said the two are not contraindicated, which means you CAN take them at the same time. Maybe you should get a second opinion, especially if the Lyrica helps. I didn't really find it helpful, so I don't take it.

Most of my fibro-management is behavioral stuff. I only work part-time, I try to maintain good sleep habits. I meditate, and part of my meditation practice is doing body-awareness scans. This keeps me in touch with what's going on so I can be proactive in dealing with pain before it gets out of control. I'll post a link to a guided body-scan meditation that I like at the end of this. I also practice yoga.

Exercise is probably the most important thing that I do. I almost never want to do it, but I do it anyway. It took me a LONG time to figure out how to exercise in a way that wouldn't give me a flare-up. I have to think about how much I feel like I can do, and then do about half of that. Slow and gentle, regular exercise. The yoga I practice is Viniyoga, which is good for people with injury or some kind of limitation like FM. I take walks, I swim, and I do some strength training - but I have to be careful with how much I do.

I take a hot bath or soak in the hot tub at the gym almost every day. This helps with the stiffness and pain. I try to eat lots of fresh fruit and veggies. When I'm in a bad flare, sometimes I can get it under control by cutting ALL sugar out of my diet for a week or two. I have minimized the amount of caffine I consume. I take a multi-vitamin and vitamin D supplements, and I drink quite a bit of green-tea (that's my caffiene). I recently started drinking Kombucha tea, which is nasty, but I think it's making me feel better.

Mental attitude is also important. If I tell myself: "I can't deal with this pain, it sucks, it's not fair, etc," then I can't do it. I'll give up and sit on the couch all day. If I tell myself that I can deal, that it's hard but not impossible, then I do much better. When I wake up, I'm always in pain. I am stiff and moving just hurts. But I tell myself to just move around gently, soak in the bath, warm up, and in an hour or two my pain goes down quite a bit.

It really is amazing what your body and mind can adjust to. When I first got diagnosed, I thought I would go crazy if someone, anyone, didn't take this pain from me. I couldn't complete a grocery shopping trip, couldn't walk around the block, I was so angry and sad. I had a really bad attitude about the whole thing, which is probably natural. Now I realize that I just have to learn to live with it, work around it, make peace with it in whatever way I can. I have to do the things that make me feel better, even if they don't make me feel pain-free. And I never give up hope that a better treatment will come along, or that I'll find a better doctor or that someday I won't have to struggle with it.

Now I am almost done with Suboxone and at the tiny dose I'm taking I'm not getting as much pain relief. So I have to work harder to manage. I'm still better than I was though, so that's progress.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:57 pm 
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Thanks for the advice. It's just going to be painful and I'm going to have to deal with it eventually. My health insurance does not cover the suboxone so I stopped going to the clinic some time back. I was receiving much more than I was taking so I filled several scripts and have been taking 4 mg since February. How is the liquid reduction going? Have you completely stopped the suboxone yet?
Jen


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:58 pm 
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Thanks for the advice. It's just going to be painful and I'm going to have to deal with it eventually. My health insurance does not cover the suboxone so I stopped going to the clinic some time back. I was receiving much more than I was taking so I filled several scripts and have been taking 4 mg since February. How is the liquid reduction going? Have you completely stopped the suboxone yet?
Jen


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:08 am 
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I'm just bumping this up because there are always questions about how to taper succesfully.

I am also working on some good news for y'all soon, but you'll have to wait a few more days. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:03 am 
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Taper is finished successfully - new thread here:

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=717

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:07 am 
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Genius!!!! Good thinking and that will keep your w/d's to a bare minimum!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:26 am 
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Diary of a Quitter wrote:
I've noticed that when I read other people's withdrawal experiences I feel worse. Hmm...


Me too!


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 Post subject: Re: diary of a quitter
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:57 pm 
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Hello,
I am a Suboxone user, for 2 years now, who is now beginning the process of tapering off. I started taking the drug to help me after an addiction to Percocet and now, like many users, my body is addicted to this "non-addictive" drug. I also suffer from severe depression and some moderate pain in my back and neck. The last time I tried to quit Suboxone cold turkey I thought I was going to go crazy, couldn't sleep, horrible rstless legs, nausea etc.. My mom actually found your blog for me and I am now going to try the "solution" taper. I too am down to 1mg a day and as well found every other day to be rather unpleasant so I'm hoping this method will be more successful. I mixed a .6mg solution last night and will begin w/ it today. Thank you for your honest and innovative approach its given me hope that maybe I can stop being addicted to medications (w/in reason)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:57 pm 
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hey Subchick!

Glad you came along and posted here... I might suggest that you start a thread for yourself and then we can add comments / suggestions for you there..then you can track your progress.. sometimes nice to come back here and re read our own posts and it keeps us remembering why we quit or starting to quit.

Sounds like you're doing great and getting your dose down... yes you will start to notice some WD symptoms with tapering, but overall it will be a lot easier to deal with those day by day then just going cold turkey. I tried to do that 4mg and that was not going to happen.

So keep us up to date and maybe post your own thread so we can add to it! Look forward to any kind of assistance / ideas!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:29 pm 
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yeah, and if a drop from 1mg to .6 is too much, try .9mg. That's actually what the doctor that hosts this site says to do, drop 10% every 2 weeks. May it go well for you.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:32 pm 
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I just wanted to give this topic a bump. <b>Diary of a Quitter's</b> successful taper inspired me to make my own attempt using the liquid method. I've gone from 32mg about 3 months ago to .60mg today - probably a little faster than I should, but it really hasn't been that bad at all. I don't want to get too cocky though, because I know that I still have some big hurtles ahead, but so far, so good.

Anyway, I've been going to the same clinic to get my Suboxone for about a year now. During each appointment, the doctor does an evaluation and writes a script - of course, that's after waiting for an hour or two in a small room packed with fifty or so other people. At first I went once a week, then every two weeks, then the doctor said I could come once a month. In December, the gentleman who runs and owns the clinic pulled me aside and said that I was going to have to start coming every two weeks instead of once a month. Now, I've had no dirty urines*, and the doctor thought it was in my best interest to come once a month... but he said that he's running a business (he has a new Mercedes, so I really don't think he's hurting) and he has to be solvent. He said "Why don't you be a team player and come every two weeks, ok?" When I asked if I had a choice, he said "No... maybe this program isn't right for you!" He's right about that, but he's also the only game in town. What a piece of work... but you know, I think that incident was the nudge I needed. Six months ago my head wasn't in the right place, but I think I'm ready now - ready at least to lower my dose if nothing else. Every once in a while, he'll come down to the basement and address the group with his wisdom and a little misinformation; he's quite fond of reminding us that he thinks everyone - no matter their history - should be on Suboxone for the rest of our lives. Last month he also made the statement that "Anyone who has taken an opiate for a two week period in their lives has permanently damaged their brains."

Well, that was cathartic. Just blowing off a little steam and giving an update on my situation. I hope everyone is doing well, and I hope to read more about your own situations.



*On three separate occasions he became testy and said that my urine was dirty. The first two times when I asked to see the urines, they were negative - he explained that it seems my body chemistry was different than most peoples and that it took longer to produce an accurate result. The third and last urine he said was dirty (he actually had me come into his office and chewed my out for a minute or so) turned out to be someone elses. He was adamant it was mine until I told him that I scratched my initials on the plastic cap - I had to fish my real urine bottle out of the trash barrel to prove it.


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