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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:54 pm 
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When I see progress like this, it just makes me wanna do it myself. I tried to stop, did it for 13days but I went back on... (jumped off 0.5mg) I couldn't really take that lingering, annoying WD anymore. It wasn't that bad but I still couldn't function normally. So now I'm at 0.1 -max0.3 (can't really tell). I'll use the liquid taper method from now on, so I'll know what dose I'm on. The thing is, I've been fighting this ridiculous dose for quite some time now and I think the WD's are actually getting softer?? I'm able to skip a day (yesterday), endure some feverish WD, and next day I'm ok (some mild symptoms). It comes in waves though for me... So I'll try to continue skipping days and I'll just see how that is working for me...
I'd like to thank ALL you guys&girlz for sharing your stories, methods, sheets, xperiences and diaries lol :) It was a huge boost for me to read that other ppl do have the will to come off and actually are succefull with it. VERY helpful thread! I just hope I'll have a quitting story myself very soon. (not that far since I'm really low actually :) )


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 Post subject: Patience
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:59 am 
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BupeAddict,
You can totally do it! And yeah, the WD from Sub lingers for awhile post jump (this seems to be a pretty common issue). The trick is to jump from such a low dose that any WD you feel will be mild. Then, if that WD lingers, whatever's left will become unnoticeable at that point. When I jumped from 2mgs once, I had terrible WD with lingering aftereffects for months. This time, the symptoms were so mild that I just noticed I felt better every day.

I thought 1mg --or even .5mgs-- was a low dose. I was mistaken. Even .5mgs may be too much for you to jump from. If you jumped from .1mg, or less, the WD would be much milder. Bupe, you are doing great! Perhaps you could try to get stable again on a lower dose, then try slowly decreasing to an easier jump amount?

I never skipped days. Some people can do that without incident, but my WD comes on fairly quickly, so I found it was easier to just dose a little less every few days.

You wrote: "So now I'm at 0.1 -max0.3 (can't really tell)." The liquid method is a MUST for producing accurate doses. You may be having trouble stabilizing because your doses aren't consistent. I discovered that even the slightest .05mg miscalculation was enough to produce WD symptoms during my taper. Once you get to low daily amounts, taking accurate doses is very important for a smooth decrease.

Please post with your progress! You are almost there, BupeA!!! Being patient can become difficult near the end, but it can make all the difference in your success.

AM


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:58 pm 
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Hello everyone just wanted to give a quick update. :D I cut last week to .66 and had unusual onset WD at about 12 hours. I felt pretty bad after 24 hours but still pseudo functional. I was able to get out anyway. I have to emphasize that exercise is really helping me. My biggest problem is w/ fatigue/jelly legs and I've been pushing myself to do at least 20 minutes of high intensity exercise a day. It gives me incredible energy, straightens out my anxiety, allows me to sleep at least 7 hours a night and I am out there functioning in the world. My symptoms leveled off by about 48-54 hours post cut last week.

I made my cut today to .61, a smaller jump because I have a busy week ahead. I actually experienced WD SX at about hour 3 this time! (What is up w/ how quickly I metabolize this drug??? LOL) I managed to stay out and about despite having anxiety, buzzing in my head, brain fog and mild rls. I did some exercise at 230pm and felt well enough to go out again. My plan is to do the exercise 1st thing in the morning because I find it really helps w/ fatigue, energy, anxiety and irritability.

I hope everyone is doing well and I hope to hear some updates soon.

:D
Samantha


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 Post subject: Checking in
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Just wanted to check in with a quick update.

It's been over 8 weeks since my last dose of sub and everything is going just fine - better than fine actually. I think the main thing now is to always keep in mind... there is no "I can do this just once more and get away with it!" for me. I know in my heart of hearts that if I put another pill (OC, Morphine, whatever) in my mouth (or anywhere else for that matter), I'll probably be throwing my life away in short order. With the amount of crap I was able to consume before I began taking Suboxone, it's more likely than not that respiratory arrest was in my very near future. Anyway, this isn't something I'm going to bother to dwell on, because frankly, I really think that it's counter-productive. The bottom line is - I know what I have to do to stay alive... so I either do it or I don't, and that decision is completely up to me.

On a related note - I'm no longer taking Xanax or Wellbutrin and I'm also down to a very low nightly dose of Seroquel which I've been using as a sleep aid. It wasn't all too long ago (5-6 years) that I was completely medication free, and that's something that I want for the very near future. It should only be another month or so... no need to rush - slow and steady will win this race.

Best to everyone!

Bill


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:39 pm 
So impressed and proud of you, Bronze! You're so close to your goal! I feel exactly the same....It wasn't so long ago for me either (~5-6 yrs also) that it was a rarity for me to even take a Tylenol! I guess I just fell apart at 40!! In any case, it has been my goal since starting Suboxone ~1yr ago, that I would get back to that lifestyle. Before anyone jumps my case....I know I can't go back as if I had never become addicted to opiates....that is now a part of my his(STORY) that I must integrate into who I am and I am forever changed by it. However, for me, it will not define the rest of my story! I will be completely medication free at some point in the coming months....as Bronze said..."slow and steady." And, in part, I will have Bronze and Diary of a Quitter and Shelwoy and Annmarie and others here who have shown me how to do it. Thank you and Congrats! I am glad you are feeling well!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:37 am 
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<b>setmefree</b> - Thank you for your kind words! I have no doubt that both you and I will achieve exactly what we've set out to accomplish. It looks as though I'll soon be traveling to the Gulf along with a few other local wildlife rehabers, and I must say that it's liberating to know I don't have to concern myself with bringing any meds, or missing a bi-weekly clinic appointment for that matter. Things are going so well it frightening! :)

Oh, there's one other thing I wanted to mention before I hit the hay - I no longer dwell on thoughts of what opiate abuse has cost me in my life... that kind of thinking doesn't help matters any. I can only move ahead and continue to appreciate just how lucky I am that I have so much living yet ahead of me.

Take care!


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 Post subject: taper working
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:54 pm 
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I've been on subs for about two years. I started tapering my dose last October, and have gone from 8 mg to .055 mg.

I have decreased my dose about 10-20% about once a week, sometimes more often. I am down to 1 mg of sub left, so I'll most likely be jumping off in a few weeks.

In the past I tried to jump off at 1mg. Every time I tried to decrease from 1mg to .5mg, I'd be so sleepy in the afternoons (my first withdrawal symptom) and so lethargic that I decided to just get it over with and jump off at 1mg. I was sick for over two weeks, with absolutely no energy, and having to go back to work, went back on suboxone. The two weeks were miserable!

With the liquid taper, I have mild withdrawal symptoms. Sleepiness the first day, edginess the second and third, usually better by the fourth. I haven't missed a single day of work, which shows that the w/d is very tolerable. I always give myself permission to increase my dose if I need to, but since I'm almost out of suboxone, I am very reluctant to go back up. I'm always fine in the morning after dosing, so the mild w/d is in the afternoon only. My conversations in my head go something like this -

day one, a little discomfort, but not too bad.

day two, worse, but I've already put up with this for almost two days, hate to dose and have to go through this again.

day three, a little worse, but . . . I know it's only one more day, better on day four.

It gets tougher when I try to reduce the dose twice in one week, as I get no break that week. But at this point, I want to be on the lowest dose possible when I jump off, and I don't want to go back to the doc. (Spend $120 to go see sub doc to get one 2mg tablet??!! I will if I have to . . . but prefer not!)

I do my dose a little differently - I put a 2mg tablet into a 3ml syringe, and draw up 3ml of water. My daily dose was .5ml. Later I cut them in half, then quarters, now thirds. I used to dose twice a day, now only once. I know that this method is not as accurate as I can't be sure of the size of the cut pieces, but has worked fine for me so far.

If I drop my dose more than 10%, I get diarrhea. I know that my various symptoms could be seen as mental, and I notice that if I'm thinking about other things, sometimes I "forget" my w/d. But the diarrhea is a physical symptom that isn't affected by my mental state.

I take 1/4 baclofen on some of the difficult days. I usually take a sleep aid at night. I've had a few nights that I woke up at 3am, unable to sleep. I'm grateful that those days have been few and far between.

A question to those who have tapered successfully - at what dose did you jump off, and were you able to sleep? I think one poster said that she had sleep issues for several weeks, but she jumped off at a higher dose than my plan. My hope is that I jump off around .01mg, and hoping for no sleep issues/lethargy.

Thank you everyone for sharing!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:18 pm 
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Hey Winning,

I'm on day 6 with no sub and will post my whole story soon. I skimmed your post becuase I have to get running but decreasing from 1 mg to .5 mg is a big drop. Just try to go down to .8 or so. If you have the 2 mg pills, break in in half an dtry to use less than the half in a day. Just use what you need. When you get under 2 mgs the decreases are felt a lot more becuase you are down to such a low dose your body and brain really feel it. It took me months to go from 1 mg to .5 mgs but i did it slowly and painlessly. I jumped from .1mg and haven't had much issue yet. Just a little anxiety, irritability, restless leg but VERY mild and VERY short lived. I'll be down for 30 mins or so here and there but cheer right back up. So anyway, once under 1 mg you hae to really take it slow. What I did was take a good solid dose in the AM (say maybe .5mg), then I'd take a little sliver around noon or so when you start feeling tired, then take a bit more around 6. Some days you'll need the full dose. Some days you'll feel good and don't need the night time dose or only need a small sliver at night...that's how I did it...used what I needed and always tried to cut a little bit out here and there.

hope that helps some!

Doug


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 Post subject: you guys are doing great
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:56 pm 
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<b>winning</b> - Excellent job of tapering! In answer to your question - I jumped at .0125mgs (12.5 micrograms) nine weeks ago and felt a little lathargic on days 4 and 5, but other than that I didn't experience any other withdrawal symptoms worth mentioning.

When you get a chance you may want to read through the whole taper thread. It may take some time to get through it, but I think it will be worth your while. If you want to send me a PM with any other questions, please feel free to do so. I probably won't be able to respond to you after next week though, so please keep that in mind.

<b>hawker</b> - You're doing great! Look forward to hearing about your taper and jump in more detail.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:31 pm 
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Hey all, just wanted to check in. No cut this week because of some personal drama in my life that has kept me in WD an entire week! Today was my first sx free day and I made my last cut, last Tuesday.

I have a compromised CNS so maybe that's part of the problem. Anyhoo....3 good days w/ no sx and I'll cut again.

Winning and Hawker
WTG!

Bill.....great to see you are still doing well! You're an inspiration!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:30 pm 
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hawker1 wrote:
Hey Winning,... I skimmed your post becuase I have to get running but decreasing from 1 mg to .5 mg is a big drop. Just try to go down to .8 or so.


He's already down to .05.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:39 pm 
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It's good to hear other people's withdrawal symptoms. They very so wildly, and that is just a fact. Some people do not even have withdrawal symptoms from Sub (lucky bastards). I'm sure it matters how long you've been on Subs and opiates in general. I find my own withdrawals extremely uncomfortable, even at lower levels. Just the 20 hours I with drew before getting on Subs was worse than anything I've ever felt. I'm really jealous when I hear some one say they just had some light nausea and tiredness. I do get some tolerable withdrawals at first, chills and sweating basically, but not as much a mood affect. But then at some point a haunting uneasiness starts up, an inability to sit still and a generally bad feeling emotionally. And it just grows. I can't sleep through it even with light sleep aids. I dropped rapidly from 24mg to 1 mg, then withdrawals set in more seriously. At that point even .1 mg drops were very uncomfortable and didn't seem to go away even after a week. Anyway, I just wanted to mention my own experience because I think it helps to have a lot of different experiences available so that people know they aren't alone or unusual. Sounds like people make it and do get back to feeling pretty normal at some point. I really thought that exercise was going to be more of a friend to me, and perhaps it's helping and I don't realize things would be worse without it. I tried some rigorous exercise during a drop and it didn't "make the symptoms go away". But I hear lots and lots of people say it helps.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:06 pm 
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Thank you for the input and encouragement! And congrats to my fellow taperers!

I'm still on .055mg a day, will drop again in a couple of days. I got a little confused to see that some people jumped off at .1 and were fine, but I still feel the .055mg. I have a busy week with work, and conferences, so I don't want to be in any more than mild discomfort for the next two weeks. I was feeling a little wussy, glad to hear that someone else got down to .01 which is what I'm shooting for.

Bronzebeta, hawker1, thanks for sharing. I tried jumping off at a higher dose and found that I felt horrible forever (two weeks). I'm hoping that .01 will result in only mild w/d.


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 Post subject: 11 weeks!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:46 pm 
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I've been crazy busy as of late, but I did want to check in, say hello, and give a brief update.

Well, it's been eleven weeks now and all is well - it's hard to believe that in a few weeks it will have been three months since my last dose of sub. The past two weeks have been very stressful (nothing at all to do with dope), though I no longer feel the temptation to self-medicate to cope with circumstances that are beyond my control. I'm actually completely medication free at this point and the only thing I really think about now and then is having a cigarette. Speaking of cigarettes... my wife mentioned a few days ago that she paid over $11 for a pack of smokes. We both recall paying somewhere around 35 cents the first time we bought a pack - quite the jump in price. Anyway, getting a little off topic here. Bottom line - feeling great, no urges, no setbacks. Contrary to what the 'Suboxone is the Orange Devil crowd' say, my decision to start taking bup was probably one of the best choices I've ever made in my life.

I'll try to check back in a few weeks. Though I may not post quite as often as I once did, I do stop by frequently. Good luck to all, and keep fighting the good fight.

Bill


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 Post subject: 14 Day Sub Taper
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:52 am 
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Whew, just got thru reading the whole thread. Took me 3 days;) Very inspirational.

My situation is a little different and one you might find interesting. My addiction doc has me on a 14 day taper. Today is day 8 for me. I was doing 200 mg of Oxycontin daily 9 days ago. My doc started my at 8 mg of sub. He's a firm believer in short 2 week tapers. I know not everyone agrees with that, maybe not even me. I haven't decided what I will do at the end. A few well meaning people on this forum and others are suggesting I stay on sub for months, and I have a new doc who agrees. He gave me a script for more sub and I now have some if I choose to go that route. I am now down to 4 mg a day and feel fine just as I have since I started. I have 1 more day on 4 mg, and then I'm supposed to drop to 2 mg a day for 5 days and then jump. For anyone that's been on subs for any length of time, that would obviously be too much of a jump, but for someone that's only been on subs for 14 days, it might be OK. My taper doc assures me that it will be fine, and I'm inclined to believe him. He's a highly regarded doc in this area, and mostly works with addicts in the medical profession. He's been an addiction doc for 30 years and has been using subs for 4 years.

I'll keep you guys informed of my progress.


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 Post subject: Starting my Taper Soon
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:41 pm 
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Hey all,

This thread has been extremely inspring for me and has given me the courage to finally attempt (again) to kick subs. Here is my preliminary plan... I'm just looking for some advice from those that have been successful. I know that I'm not one of the rare individuals that can jump from 1 mg with little to know withdrawals. Last time I tried to do that, I was utterly miserable for 3 weeks. I'm at about 3mg/day currently, so my taper schedule would be as follows:

Day 1-10: 3mg/day
Day 11-20: 2.5 mg/day
Day 21-30: 2mg/day
Day 31-40: 1.5mg/day
Day 41-50: 1.25mg/day
Day 51-60: 1mg/day
Day 61-70: 0.8mg/day
Day 71-80: 0.6mg/day
Day 81-90: 0.5mg/day
Day 91-100: 0.4mg/day
Day 101-110: 0.3mg/day
Day 111-120:0.2mg/day

I plan to make the "jump" at 0.2mg. Does this seem like a reasonable 4 month taper plan that should enable me to continue to work and support my family? I realize that everyone is different, but is there anything glaringly wrong with this planned taper? I am also planning on supplementing the program with hot baths, rest, a healthy diet, regular exercise, a multi-vitamin, plenty of water and cutting back on my caffeine intake. Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated!

PS: After reading this thread, I understand the liquid taper method well (I think). I really like the ciggie filter idea because I'm worried about my solutions evaporating and hence becoming more concentrated. Is this a valid concern? I don't smoke, so I don't feel like buying cigarettes just for their filters... has anybody figured out a viable alternative?

Cheers!

-Meta


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:19 am 
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I didn't use the filters. I'd use a 3ml syringe with .1 ml markings. 1/2 of a ml (5 notches) would be a day's dose. I would take the dose in two phases, half at a time. In the beginning I dosed twice; once in the morning and again at lunch to help with the effect of getting sleepy in the afternoon when the sub wore off. This effect stopped sometime around .5 mg, and I went to dosing once a day (morning, still half at a time, but one dose right after the other).

In the beginning, I'd drop a 2mg tablet into the syringe, draw up water. I used a spreadsheet to set up the math and the plan, always keeping the total amount of liquid per day (.5 ml) the same. When doses got smaller, I cut the tablet in half, then quarters, then sixths, always dropping the solid piece into the syringe and drawing up water. It was only at the very end that I had to mix the last sixth of a 2mg with more water than 3ml, so mixed in a prescription bottle. I also was concerned about evaporation, but this doesn't seem to be an issue.

I make sure to hold the liquid (about .25ml at a time) in my mouth for at least 10 minutes, sometimes as long as 30. Fortunately I haven't noticed a big difference based on time. I stopped "feeling" the dose at about .5mg.

Regarding your taper schedule, everyone is different. The smaller the drop, the less you feel it. Doing a 25% reduction at higher doses (for instance, from 8mg to 6mg) was a piece of cake for me. I didn't even really feel the reduction. But, at very low doses, I'd feel the 20% reductions. A little edginess, diarrhea, a little sweatiness. Very mild, never missed a day of work. So I'd try to do 10% reductions as often as possible. Since I was working with a limited amount of sub, and committed to not going back to the sub doc, I've pushed a few times, knowing that I may experience more symptoms than usual. I'd be fully prepared. By now I know my body - Day 1, almost no w/d. Day 2, a little edginess, gets worse as the day progresses, but a very busy day will take my mind off of it. Day 3, a bit worse, but I know that's the worse day, and by Day 4 I'm better. Day 5, body is fully adjusted to new dose, and I have the choice to cruise (stay on that dose for a few days) or drop again.

In the beginning, I dropped my dose once every ten days or so. Towards the end, I'm almost out, so I've stepped it up to every four days. So as soon as I'm 100%, I drop my dose.

The majority of the symptoms are easily controlled as they magically disappear when I'm 100% engaged in an activity. For me the diarrhea/loose stool is the one symptom that is entirely physical, so that's been a good bs barometer for me. Sometimes I think I'm getting symptoms, and I remind myself that I don't have diarrhea or loose stol, so that's impossible. And if I do have diarrhea, I take a little immodium D.

All relatively painless. I'm now on .026, and will attempt a 50% reduction tomorrow to .013. I'd drop slower, but I'm out of liquid. So, six days on .013, then off.

And, have to add one more thing. I'm not around ANYONE who uses, ever. I have a good job that keeps my mind very busy during work, and an active life at home with plenty to keep my happy and occupied. I stayed on subs for about 2 years to fully break the cycle of using, now the thought of getting anything seems entirely foreign (rather than second nature).

Best of luck to you, sounds like you're on the right track with the taper, but be sure to have the rest of your life in order too.


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 Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:59 pm 
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Thanks for the Reply Winning.

Fortunately, I do have the rest of my life in order. I've got a good full time job, a wife, a mortgage, and a child on the way. In addition to tapering, I'm going to make sure that I keep up on a good diet and exercise. I've also made up a spreadsheet so i can keep track of my diet, exercise, dose, and symptoms/feelings each day. I think it will be helpful in objectively looking at the taper process.

My biggest concern is that I also have chronic pain in my lower back. In the past, whenever i have tried to get off of Suboxone, I've ended up continually waking up in the middle of the night with back discomfort and been unable to get back to sleep. The combination of sleeplessness and withdrawal always meant that sooner or later I'd end up back on the sub. I'm hoping that this time will be different. I think I've set myself up for the best chance at success.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:52 am 
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Just wanted to update as I haven't in weeks. I've sort of hit some difficulty. I held my last dose from 6/9/10-7/9/10. I was cutting once a week before that. I held at .61 for so long because there was some major life change going on at the time and I was in chronic WD almost the entire 4 weeks. Diarrhea lasted almost 10 days, RLS never let up and I had some other symptoms like fatigue (body, physical fatigue not head fatigue), anxiety, visual disturbances, headache and pressure.

I finally dropped to .57 on 7/9 and I am still having symptoms. before the stressful event that occurred 6/12, my symptoms would subside after day 3 and here I am day 5 w/ severe fatigue and muscle twitching/RLS. I wanted to cut again this Thursday but I think I will wait to see if I can get 3 good days symptom free before I make another cut. Waiting for 3 days in a row symptom free was what kept me on my last dose 4 weeks.

I don't know why the WD is worse on these very low cuts. I cut by .05% in June and .04% this past week and I am very uncomfortable. I am still exercising every day and my food is clean and healthy.

I guess it's stress. :shock:


Good luck everyone and keep us posted! :D

Samantha


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:38 pm 
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I'm very glad to hear of the liquid method,it's simple and it sounds like it will work.

I'll keep anyone posted,but I have to get permission from my Dr.,he wants me to continue to take it.

Robert


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