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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:53 pm 
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I'm with Q on this also Evolve :)

I'm reading all ur posts with actual hope that stopping, even if I have to taper to a super low dose, won't be so horrible as I have always assumed. I've done so much reading about sub withdrawal that I'm literally scared to death when my time comes to even attempt it. I know everyone is different and all that, but just seeing that ur still able to sleep pretty good, and eat, and even post about it several times a day on the computer. It gives some of us hope that had kinda gave into the thoughts that it will be the worst experience on earth lol. I love reading ur progress.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:40 pm 
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Hi Q and Jenn,

I definitely think this is more than doable. You could work through this even if you worked from a office, 9-5. In fact I'd think it might make it easier to some degree since you're out and on your feet more so than when you're at home. Not sure it's going to get worse tomorrow. Today was easier still, with the peak of how bad things got thus far on the 3rd day. I'll reserve my judgement if I'm over the hill so to speak just yet. There's really not much besides random anxiety / depression, and really mild RLS.

When I tapered down to the .12 dose and got sick, those days were harder than this. Most of the taper was, and those were easier than skipping days by quite a lot.

It makes me wonder that if at .12 or so you're really not taking enough suboxone to be effective and essentially may be so close to off the substance that you're really doing part of your WD while tapering. That might sound scary but again, most of those days were easy - I worked through most, and didn't really need much of anything to get by. Haven't really had an agonizing day since skipping at .5 or higher.

It's a bit weird though, it seems like time is going slower now. Most substances for me anyways seem to speed up time - I almost never know where it goes. Being off most everything pretty much (I've not taken anything today) might have something to do with it.

I don't really know if I'm going to be able to say whether or not the skipping days has shortened my suffering at the end of the taper or not. I don't know if I can conclusively say so. I am however getting close to the point where I'd feel comfortable in saying that the liquid taper in general is a success, and tapering very low is the way if you're trying to minimize discomfort. In the end there's been some minor suffering here and there, but overall it seems like this is probably the easiest way to go. I'm actually happy myself I stumbled across the original liquid taper posts which lead me down this path and suboxone forum for providing the platform for hosting these kinds of discussions.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:15 pm 
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Post dinner notes:

About a hour ago my legs started to feel a bit bouncy, somewhat too energetic, which usually means RLS is going to happen later. As of now, my ankles feel a bit achy, nothing major - very minor aches similar to the onset of RLS. My wrists feel like they might be the next to go, but really aren't annoying at all yet.

I ended up taking 2 Lopes, which I didn't want to take but what's a few more days. I figure this should calm down a bit over the weekend and then I can stop / cut down then. Not really too worried tbh.

I'll probably take 5HTP tonight again since it's been keeping me in good spirits. That too I'll probably stop come next week and assuming the anxiety / depression don't come back I should be ok.

Still pretty tired right now, most of the day was a breeze though. No real bouts of tiredness until about 7PM.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:32 pm 
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Last night pretty much ended with some minor aches which went away at night time. I ended up feeling normal until bed which was around 2AM - and decided to skip the 5HTP.

No issue falling or staying asleep really. No RLS really.

Woke up today at 11AM and felt a little bit thirsty, and slightly sore before I went out for a walk but it is so minor that it's almost not worth writing about. To equate it to something, it was far less minor than feeling sore from working out - significantly so.

Not sure I'll need Loperamide today, seems like I probably won't but I've said that before. I feel fine right now, except a little tired, but the tiredness has been getting progressively easier to deal with.

Some things that are weird, my libido a few weeks ago and during the taper especially as I got lower was quite high, but now it seems to have leveled off a bit again.

Most of the skin issues I have are pretty much clearing up at this point.

In a somewhat unrelated note, I found my strips the other day when doing some cleaning. Don't need them now so I've just left them where they are. I do have some cravings but they're manageable. Mostly I'm holding on to the aids / etc I have for when I actually need them which I'm sure will happen eventually but hopefully not for a long, long time if ever.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:33 pm 
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It's so awesome to read your amazing progress ER. I'm so happy for you! Things seem to be getting easier, so it's great to read about it. I hope I have the same luck!

I'm about the same age as you, so reading your posts gives me somewhat of a guide as to how I'll feel once I'm that low. Of course, I know everyone is different, but I've also read a lot about how age seems to be a factor in your tapering/WD process, so I really appreciate this thread. Thank you a thousand times, it's giving me hope!

Speaking of hope, did you have a hard time once you got below 2mg? I'm having a hard time with my latest drop from 2mg to 1.9 mg, so I'm wondering if it's going to be like this the whole time...I sure hope not. I can handle it, but yeesh, it's sure not pleasant and I'm hoping I'm not going to feel like this for the next six months during my taper. Of course you know the symptoms: restless, leg throbbing, insomnia, anxiety, etc. for the last six days since my drop, and it was only 10%. I'm trying not to be a baby about it, but at the same time, I'm concerned that I'm going to be feeling like excrement for the next six months. Anyway, my problems are not your concern, so please don't feel like you need to answer if you don't feel like it. You're on your way out and you've already given me soooo much information and hope!

As always, I'm wishing you the best of luck. Sounds like you're doing well!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:22 pm 
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Hi BK,

I really found it most difficult below 1MG. But what I can say is the drops felt somewhat easier as time went on. It was probably hardest from 1MG - .05MG and then below that it got easier with the liquid. What method are you using the measure below 1MG? How long are you trying to stay at each level? Realistically I stayed at each until I felt normal with the exception of the last 5-6 steps or so. Most of the things you mentioned about RLS / throbbing / insomnia / anxiety etc only came into play later for me. I wonder if it's because you have probably been taking Subs daily? If so chances are your body might not be used to the change? Whatever the case, I think it will get easier for you. Like anything though you're going to need to tough out the bad days.

Quick update on my progress - Took nothing but 1MG Loperamide last night. Felt like I probably didn't even need that but I took it anyways. Ended up sleeping and not even flipping over at all during the night. No real symptoms of any kind. I'm fairly sure I'm through the other side but later this afternoon will be the true test seeing as I usually get tired then. Time still feels significantly slower. Slept about 9 hours last night uninterrupted and woke up feeling normal.

Work starts tomorrow - not looking forward to that in general but who ever is really. I'm thinking I'll do a full recap (short form) of the taper, things experienced at different steps and what I felt around day 10 or 15. I may cut down on daily updates a bit - probably sticking to one or two a day from here on out since I'm pretty sure the worst is over now.

BK - if you ever need anything and I'm not around PM me - I'd be glad to help.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:11 pm 
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ER,

Yeah, I've been taking them daily, not able to skip days. Not sure I will be able to. But as you said, I'll just have to tough it out through the hard days. I'm Feeling a bit better today, hoping I've adjusted to this new dose. Thank you so much for the advice!

I'm so glad to hear that you're pretty much there. So happy for you! I've loved reading your daily posts; so informative and truthful.
I'm not looking forward to work tomorrow either. It's my first day of a new, higher stress job. But eh, we manage to get through, right? At least that's what I keep telling myself.

I hope the rest of these next few days go smoothly for you. You've done so well this far, can't imagine it would get worse. You're through the hard part! Good luck and thank you so much for the offer of help, I'll totally take you up on it!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:15 pm 
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Oh and I forgot to say that I am not sure how I'll measure below 1mg. Thinking I will try to get as low as I can using my scale, then switch to liquid once I'm shooting for below .25 mg. as the scale seems to be pretty accurate thus far. I was really wanting to reduce every 7 days, but if I'm not adjusting well, I may have to just stay at each dose until I'm stable. Everything I've read on this forum indicates that it's smart to stay at a certain dose until you have at least 4 days of stability, then drop after that.

Thanks again for everything!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:09 pm 
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BK,

Hope the new job is going smoothly today and you're not suffering too much. I can't really speak on when the right time to lower your dose is. For me personally working from home and not having much work right now allowed me to lower faster than you'd probably want to, though I really went with "do I feel OK enough to lower again". Most of those earlier steps were harder, with the exception of some of the earliest being easiest for some reason.

When do you dose? Is it a morning or a evening thing? Stick with it, I think it should be more than doable for you, and assuming you can take a few days off and or frontload your work like I did it might make it a bit easier to jump when the time comes.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:14 pm 
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So I avoided the Loperamide yesterday entirely, and only ended up taking some B6 + L-Tyrosine for tiredness later in the day. The tiredness was actually pretty strong yesterday and I went to go lie down for a bit, but once I did I felt awake and got back up again.

Last night falling asleep was hard but I think because I've been staying up fairly late and waking up late as well. Flipped over a lot during the night, didn't get comfortable quickly. I have a feeling this might have to do with the soup I had for dinner, because I felt pretty hungry before bed, and somewhat less energized than normal but perhaps not.

Today woke up with a bit more difficulty than usual, some minor leg aches came back (nothing even close to annoying or painful). Feels like ankle soreness, again probably due to my diet if I had to guess? I'm getting groceries today so I should be eating a bit more substantial food over the next few days and I'll see if that helps.

Not sure I'll get tired later, I have a meeting around the time I usually get tired which is going to be pretty fun if it does creep up.

Still though, this seems more than bearable and I banged out almost all of my work really early today.

I just found out I have another friend jumping off suboxone at .5 today. Curious how he'll do but I don't think he's been on them that long.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:21 pm 
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Hi ER,

Sounds like today went ok for you, perhaps a bit rough, but nothing as bad as many people say. I'm so glad you have this in the bag!

I did well today as I've adjusted to this new dose. Sweet. I dose in the morning, as it is the easiest time for me to do so. I'm planning to do as you did; reduce once I've been stable for a few days/ I feel like I can do it. I'd love to get this taper done by August, but I also know there isn't a way to really plan since I need to go by what my body is telling me. I really appreciate the support and advice! Truly, it really helps.

I hope to take a few days off of work as you did, as I know that trying to work during those first few days sounds like it would be roooouuuuugghh.

I'm so happy for you though! Way to be strong and get this done the right way!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:01 pm 
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Hey Evolve :)

Just curious how'd u rate ur cravings on a scale of 1 to 10 right now, or are u not having any. My biggest road block every single time i have stopped any opiate is the unbearable craving and depression. I've done everything ur supposed to do in the past for months and months & never could get past this. That's a huge fear of mine when I think about if I were to ever stop suboxone. Is this anything u are having any issues with? Just curious :)

Congrats on all ur great progress btw!!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:39 pm 
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Hi BK,

Hope you've stabilized a bit and things are getting easier for you. In retrospect how hard were those first few days you lowered your dose now? Still quite as hard?

As for me, really the wosrt is tiredness which creeps up in the later afternoon and lasts until 8PM sometimes. usually its not that bad. Never really so bad I've had to take a nap yet, though I did briefly last night which could be why it took me a while to get to bed last night.

Still no Loperamide today. Haven't taken anything. Some minor leg aches today, but not that bad. Maybe a .05/10. Definitely not annoying really, it's just there and I can ignore it most of the time.


Jennjenn,

The cravings were maybe a 2 or 3 earlier in the process. Since then they've been pretty low. The thought of having to go through this again really outweighs the need to feel 100% now, considering I feel like I'm close to 85% right now. If the tiredness and minor leg stuff went away I'd probably be at 95% with the rest being really minimal mental stuff.

I understand you about cravings though. Last time I jumped the thought of taking anything to feel better was a huge idea in my head. I stuck through it though. In the end though the liquid taper makes things easy enough that I never really considered taking much of anything. Generally I'd work up and up through my aids, but it never got that bad. I still have all my Valium. Here I was thinking I'd need kratom or potentially clonidine but haven't really felt the need for either (even though I don't have the latter).

To compare it to something - this feels extremely easier than having a drinking hangover, even during its worst it was still better than a drinking hangover. It's different though obviously, but when I drink I tend to feel like such garbage I generally want to stay in bed and sleep the day away. With this I could get up and get things done, and the worst came in waves which again - really weren't bad at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:08 pm 
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Hi ER,

Wow, sounds like you're over the hump. Congratulations! It's a huge accomplishment, so I hope you are able to treat yourself with a nice massage or whatever suits your fancy; you deserve it.

Regarding those days after my last drop, eh, I'd say they weren't easy, but doable. I could at least go to work and function, which gives me the courage to continue this taper.

I get nasty hangovers too, so I sympathize! The fact that this hasn't even been close to a drinking hangover is awesome and very encouraging.

I also hope my cravings, or lack thereof, are like yours. Of course I don't have them now, but I know I'll need to prepare myself for the possibility that they may creep up as I lower my dose and stay strong in avoiding them (that and the sheer fact that I don't ever want to go through this again). As many people say, the hope that suboxone provides time for your brain to heal is a definite encouragement as well.

Anyway, I continue to enjoy reading about your success. Thanks again for the detailed account of your experience. You've given me so much hope! I know I keep repeating this, but it's so prevalent that I can't avoid it. :) Congrats again Evolved!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:13 pm 
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This is officially day 9. The leg aches that crept up yesterday went away last night after taking 5HTP before bed. Not sure why really.They'd remained mostly through the entire day.

Felt pretty overtired but mostly because I didn't get much sleep yesterday due to being overexcited before bed (the night before last). As for last night, got to bed quickly, but ended up waking up more often than I wanted to. In either case, I slept pretty well.

Seeing as I slept 6 hours between Mon - Tues I'd think that might be why some of those effects felt yesterday crept back up. I do feel its very important to get as much sleep as possible each night during your initial recovery.

I feel like I'm at about 90% today. Still a little tired, but it could just be usual morning tiredness. Once I get out of the house and into the cold I should be fine.

I'm not expecting too much craziness today. Got some good news on the work front this week so far so things are going to pick up financially as well. Pretty happy about that.

Seems like I'll be truly in the clear when I have a week of no fatigue (tiredness) later in the day and no random aches but both of these are so minor it kind of doesn't matter really.

Getting there,

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:32 pm 
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Wow, day 9 already??? That's crazy!

I'm so impressed with how easy this has been on you. Okay, so maybe easy isn't the right word, but compared to most taper stories I'd say it's fair. :D

Judging from your posts here I would say that your two best keys to success have been your dedication to the low taper, and your very positive attitude. You have been optimistic about this whole thing from the very beginning, and I am a firm believer that it makes a difference. Your story gives me further proof.

I'm still enjoying your daily updates. And I feel like you are definitely out of the woods now as far as any resurgence in WD symptoms. I bet it feels great to be finished with the taper, huh? I don't remember if you said exactly how long you had been tapering?

Q

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:49 pm 
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Hi Q,

In terms of detox, I can say it was easy for sure compared to jumping at 2mg. I can still remember the feeling of trying to skip days at .5 which was impending depression, hopelessness and extreme fatigue, muscle pains, RLS on day 1. Most of these were bad enough just the thought of dosing again was so strong, that it became harder and hard to continue to skip, plus it made living daily life and working VERY challenging. What I can say was - this taper, and even the jump were barely a fraction as difficult. At no point was I feeling so weak that I had to take something hence why I didn't even bother with most aids. Believe me, if I was in extreme pain, the first thing that would happen would be that I'd increase my loperamide by 2-3x and then take a valium. It just never happened like that though.

How long was I tapering for? difficult to say really. The liquid taper was around a month, maybe a little longer. I'll recap fairly soon and will check back in the older posts for specifics. But prior to that I'd been as high as 4MG, down to 2MG over the course of a year or so, then down to 1MG for half a year, and then sub 1MG for maybe 5-6 Months or so. I honestly wasn't really keeping track of most of that since it was one of the more challenging times in my life, and mostly due to non suboxone related issues. For the most part I just wanted that period of my life to be over, and it was, for a bit. Financially I'm still struggling now, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel, and I'm also not on suboxone which is great for me mentally and physically.

I don't disagree - dedication is probably the biggest thing. Knowing that I'm throwing my life away on suboxone was a huge factor. I'm not getting younger, and maybe when I was in my 20's being like, oh a week or two here and there of just doing nothing and not getting anywhere is fine. But now that I'm getting older, I see the value in each waking day and I want to maximize that time now. Falling into a suboxone thing for a few years pretty much threw that whole line of thinking into question and I had to remember that I control my life, not a drug - and that I need to regain control if I want things to change. I'd say thats the main catalyst. Plus the physical symptoms made my anxiety worse, and in general was like a catch 22. Suboxone helped me physically, reduced anxiety, messed me up physically, which increased anxiety of the physical symptoms. So what will I do about the issues I have that have kept me on medication most my life? I don't know but I'm tying to live without taking anything for now. Cravings have been nonexistant as of lately - and really most of my personal / health issues have been fairly minimal if not really that bad at the moment. This will change, but until then I'm going to keep going as if there's really no problem.


Quick update for day 10:
Felt pretty normal last night. The aches that I had yesterday, if I could even call them that were like a 0.01 out of 10. Couldn't be more minimal. They were there but not really. Didn't get super tired last night, and overall just felt pretty good almost the entire day.

Got to bed normally, took a 5HTP to promote good sleep, and slept fairly well. Rolled over a few times, felt normal IMO.

Aches minorly came back when I woke up, and currently are gone again. It's really hard to describe how this super minimal aches feel like. It's like you know you're legs aren't 100% normal, but they're also not in pain or agitated. There's just something slightly off. Doesn't hurt, doesn't feel perfect though, and isn't irritating or annoying. It's pretty much the most minimal thing. I did want to mention it though because some people might want to know whats still going on, and that is, but I couldve avoided mentioning it since its such a non issue.

That's about it for today.

I'm losing some weight which is interesting because my diet hasn't really changed too much. Don't have a scale but my pants are becoming loose. Skin issues I had while on suboxone are still around but almost entirely better. I'm probably a week or two out from the skin issues to be entirely resolved.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:48 pm 
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Yesterday was weird, I had a bit of brain fog that kinda persisted throughout the day. Might have been related to what I ate but might have also been lingering WD stuff. It wasn't quite annoying, but enough that I wanted to maybe take some advil or something to make it stop. I didn't though.

Woke up today slightly irritable, but okay overall otherwise. I'd say yesterday I mightve been back at 80-85% in the evening, and today back at 90% so far. My feet are especially cold since its cold out and cold in here. Trying to keep the heating pad on still.

I think at the moment the only real thing that seems to come and go is like I feel a bit dull, in the sense that I'm not quite excited to be living life right now. I'm not depressed, but I'm also not quite happy. It's weird. Hopefully this lifts soon, but if it doesn't it wouldn't be too much of a change since this is part of what's been up most of the time during the last few months anyways. It's not like it's a change really, and its not necessarily annoying or bothersome. I know this isn't necessarily "normal" though, even though one might think it might be since living without substances can feel pretty dull at times. It's not though, and honestly you should be able to have natural highs and lows with life instead of a somewhat of a non-feeling feeling. It's not really that serious, but I can equate it to being on SSRI's once in my life and feeling like I felt nothing. It's not that intense, but its similar - probably a lack of something (probably dopamine) in my body. It could also be the fact that I haven't taken 5HTP for a few days.

Slept well last night, didn't have any issues really. Got tired and everything was pretty normal.

Unless the minor leg stuff comes back I'm fairly sure the physical symptoms are mostly done now but I'll know more tonight.

I'd usually be feeling pretty tired around now to about 6PM, that hasn't started yet. Maybe it wont. That would be awesome.

I do want to stress that most of the things described here are so very minimal that I'm just writing to explain what it is I'm going through but in no way are these that bad, or don't really need medicine to correct - not for me anyways.

Hope you're all doing well!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:57 am 
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Was out and about most of the weekend but wanted to update again.

Last few days have been pretty mild. Almost nothing to report for Saturday except some minor tiredness. No aches / pains, nothing else. Didn't sleep enough on Saturday night, and woke up overtired on Sunday, but again nothing to report except tiredness for Sunday.

As of today (14 days / 2 week mark) I'm feeling a bit achy in my arms, probably just due to diet again - or because I haven't taken anything including L-Tyro since last week sometime. I'm going to try to get some foods with potassium / magnesium in my diet today if possible. It's by no means annoying, and just kind of barely there.

Not sure if this would be considered PAWS or what - but I feel normal enough to operate and mostly its nowhere near as bad as anything before it which was very mild to begin with.

This weekend I'll be doing the long promised and somewhat overdue final review of this taper and jump. It's supposed to be spring come the weekend I think but it just snowed again. lol.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:28 pm 
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Hi ER,

I'm so happy for you! You've accomplished a great feat. Reading about how it's gotten even better for you these past two weeks is so encouraging. Every time I'm feeling a bit crappy after a drop, I think about your story and about how, in the end, this will all be worth it.

Hope you are well and that the seemingly endless winter dissipates. Man, the northeast is still getting snow and it's like spring where I live in the northwest, even though it is usually the opposite. Climate change is very strange. All my best to you!

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