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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:29 pm 
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Hi Evolved,

Ah, you were actually referring to SOAP! Now it makes sense. I can see why it might help with RLS, hell, I'll try anything to get it to lessen. This is one more thing that I can try once I start getting RLS again = once I'm low enough in my taper. I've had RLS too many times to count when reducing and coming off my DOC (thankfully a year ago), so I appreciate any advice that may help. I also purchased some of the homeopathic RLS meds, so I'll try them once I know it's coming. I, like you, always know when it's coming because I have the same feelings throughout the day when I reduce, so I can tell when RLS will kick in at night.

I plan to start the liquid taper once I'm stepping down to below 1mg, but I may prolong it further since I can weigh my doses with a mg scale (I have the generic 8mg pills). I've figured out I can get as low as .25 mg with the scale, but if the liquid taper is more accurate, I may just start once I'm shooting for below 1mg. The scale has been an amazing blessing, since it's so hard to measure those crumbly pills once I try to get below about 4mg. I struggled with accurate doses for quite some time before I got the scale, but now I can measure my 10% drops accurately and it provides so much more mental relief from the "oh crap, I wonder if I'm taking more than my current dose" feeling and/or the roller coaster WDs that result from inaccurate doses.

Anyway, your posts have been so wonderful in assisting me with my decision to try the liquid taper. I was kind of freaking out thinking about how I'd taper below .25 mg, but once I found this site and your posts, I have a feeling of comfort knowing I can hopefully measure my doses accurately and get to minuscule doses before I jump. I bought some lab syringes that measure 1mg and have measurements down to .01 mg in each syringe, so I hope they'll be accurate. I also plan to mix 8mgs of sub with 8ml of water, hence my doses will be .09 ml = .09 mg, and so on, all the way down to .01 mg. I plan to use an empty pill bottle to mix my solution, then draw up the solution in ml amounts. I'm such a planning geek; I haven't even reached 1mg and have quite a ways to go, but I'm already planning my liquid taper anyway. Eh, whatever gives us hope and assurance, right?

I have also read about your concerns regarding how the sub doesn't completely dissolve in water, so that's one thing I'm worried about. But, it seems to be working for you, so I hope it will work for me. I read one poster's information saying that she was using distilled water for her taper, so I may try that if I can't get the pill to completely dissolve in water, since she said it helped...but who knows. I suppose I'll have to figure it out once I'm there and try not to become impatient with my taper in the mean time.

I have also really enjoyed reading about how you are trying a "green" diet, as that's one thing I need to do as well. I'm pretty good at eating healthy about 50% of the time, but then I get urges to pig out on a cheeseburger, pizza, etc. and I'm not good at staving them off, especially when I'm feeling like crap and just want a few minutes of "oh, that tastes soooo good," even though I know it's not the best choice and will likely result in feeling crappy later on. Guess I just need to keep reminding myself that a few minutes of tastebud heaven isn't worth it.

Anyway, sorry to ramble on. It's just nice to be able to converse with someone who 'gets it' since my boyfriend, friends, family don't know what I'm going through. Sure, my brother does, but he's also wrapped up in his own struggle, which I completely understand, and he's not tapering off his DOC/won't try sub since he says it makes him anxious, angry, etc. Sure, it makes me anxious too and I can somewhat relate to your issue of being allergic to it since I don't really like how it makes me feel either, but yeesh, the constant struggle of a DOC and always buying it, worrying about it, horrid withdrawing, etc. is way worse.

So, thanks again for your posts! I'm glad to hear you are becoming stable at these lower doses, even if the RLS, sweating, etc. is acting up, at least you aren't wanting to tear your skin off, right? At least you're not curled in front of the toilet, writhing in agony, unable to eat or sleep or even walk ten feet to the kitchen, right? I know it sucks; I've been through a few nightmare WDs, and it always seems to help if I think about how sub tapering WDs are not THAT bad, how sub WDs are doable, you can still function even though it sucks, etc. I hope I'm not sounding like I'm minimizing your struggle at all, because I know it's terribly hard and it seems like it's never-ending, but you're at the END! You are nearly there, so keep pushing through! Keep watching Netflix, playing video games, taking care of yourself, and try not to think about how you're not being as social as you normally are. I, too am not social when experiencing WDs, but you can keep telling yourself that, after you finish with this, you'll be back and you will have shed your sub-skin and will be growing into a new, fresh, clean skin that you can mold as you go along, sub-free!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:14 am 
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Hi Bad kitty,

The only other advice I have on RLS is drinks or supplements with Quinine, but be very careful with it. it's toxic in large amounts. Some of the RLS meds have it, others don't. You can also drink tonic water.

I like your scale Idea personally, that way you don't really have to worry so much about absorption, or how the pill sediments fall in the syringe. Those might be issues or they might not for you. Otherwise your plan sounds pretty sound. I think you'd meant 1MG = 1ML right? Or is the syringe only 0.09ML? Maybe do some water test runs with the syringe to make sure you know how much pressure to put on it to get to your desired dose. It's not so important when you start since your doses will be bigger, but once you get to smaller amounts, missing the drops even a small amount can throw you off. It's not as hard as I'm making it out to be, but it's going to depend on the suction of your dropper. I assume you plan on measuring the water, and then adding the suboxone into the mix and sucking it back up? Sounds overly complicated to me. If you can pre measure the suboxone just dump it in the back of the dropper when you fill it up. If your method is easier or more precise for you, go for it. Sounds okay to me but I don't know if I fully understand.

I hear you on the food tip. I eat poorly except when I'm not which is most of the time. But in the past I've maintained pretty good eating habits. I don't know whats changed besides being less physically obsessive I guess? Whatever the case, I don't think I've skipped pizza day (weekly) in like 5+ years but I have this week. You can do it too. Something about the issues with your stomach when you get to lower doses the idea of putting crazy stuff in doesn't seem as appealing. Sorry if that's a messed up mental image. :\

Yeah for those individuals who went from full agonist to suboxone - I feel for you. I've never been there. I've done it a few times here and there, but only occasionally and even that was like a few times a year at most when I was younger. Maybe a total of 10 times in my life. Never got into it in a serious way. Truth be told, I'd been put on suboxone for Vicodin, which I'll never really forgive my doctor for. That's why I've taken it upon myself to do this on my own terms this time around. Obviously its more challenging when you're not working w/ a doc to get suboxone. I'm crafty though. Anyways, it shouldn't sound like addict talk, because in reality I'm treating something that can't be treated otherwise w/o pain meds, so yeah. I have no ill will / beef with other doctors. I just wanted more control over my own life, and less control exerted by the medical industry which has done me wrong many times in my life. I'll never replace a doctor though, I know that and I can't advise others to do what I've done. But I can say that if you have to do it alone, you can. I'm getting off subject though.


So yes - I don't want to tear my skin off right now. I'm not sure I will. I really don't know what to expect once I stop dosing. I'm thinking it will be anxiety, sleeplessness, and RLS, and stomach issues will be the main things. Probably minimal aches / pains. Hot and Cold sweats but not in the same way as jumping off 2MG.

Anyways, thanks for your words of encouragement. They mean a lot as always.

evolved.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:20 am 
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Quick update since I'm not quite in bed yet, and probably won't be for another hour (I stay up late and there's no work tomorrow (yay!)).

I ended up feeling RLS creeping in as I'd mentioned before, but didn't really take anything besides some ibuprofen. I'd been trying to cut down on the magnesium since it messes your stomach up even more, and today's been pretty impossible to stay hydrated etc. I ended up taking 2 2MG Lopes (immodium) and ended up feeling normal. All of the ankle based, and knee to shin based RLS and joint pain that was kind of lingering went away. It's now about 10 hours since I'd taken the lope and my stomach is back to being a twisted mess, however the joint pain is still gone. I'm pretty sure I can sleep tonight.

On a side note, the space heater and the heating pad have been okay, but I'd kept those on for hours and really with not much of a change to how I felt besides how bad the RLS / aches felt in their onset. I don't know if its a combination of the Lope, the heating pad or space heater but what I do think is its entirely the loperamide. That said, I've promised myself I won't take them daily, and that means tomorrow will really be the true test at 0.04. That and Tues will probably be pretty bad, and Weds, well. Weds will be weds. I'd like to try not to take any more loperamide until weds at the very least due to the amount of relief its providing right now. Surprisingly only 4MG is going a huge distance here, probably because of how low I've tapered.

k its time to at least get things done before bed.

bye for now!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:07 pm 
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Just wanted to update quickly prior to eating lunch and eventually dosing later.

I'd spent some time thinking about my comments about my doctor and felt they might have been somewhat unfair. In the end, the Vicodin I was prescribed was also from a Doc, however the idea to switch to Suboxone truthfully was my own. I'm definitely a bit annoied at that doctor though due to him saying Suboxone would be a good fit to get off the Vicodin and be a healthier alternative - I'd also been told getting off Suboxone would be easier than Vicodin. Mostly if I'm looking to blame anyone I can only blame myself at this point. In the end its my decisions that lead me here, on bad information. The solution for me personally would be to always be informed of all decisions and don't take anyone's word without researching first.

So I managed to sleep well last night. I did flip over a bunch of times, but I tend to do that regularly, even when not RLS'd. Oddly though I wasn't feeling any RLS or anything last night even after going out in the extreme cold out here before bed for a quick walk.

Woke up today, my stomach is back to being okay again, and still no signs of RLS.

Curious if this loperamide is cheating or what. I might want to reduce the dose to 2MG. 4MG might have been overkill. I'd done some research into loperamide on the chemistry side of things, half lifes can last from 7.5-14+ hours So in a 28 hour period, you'd have roughly 1/4 of the loperamide in your system. So it's still what I'd consider longer acting but shorter than subs. I think my initial plan of only taking it when I need it is the best way to go right now - I.E. trying to not take any before weds afternoon, which by then since I'd dosed on Sunday afternoon most should be out of my system.

I'll probably push my dose back as far as possible today since I feel so normal ATM. I'd like to think I can skip a day which right now I feel I can, however I have to do double work tomorrow to be off on Weds-Fri (even though I'm technically working on Weds morning). I expect most of the crappy feeling to creep up on Weds after about 5PM my time.

I need to stock up on some more food both because its freezing outside and because I don't think I'm going to want to go shopping once I've stopped for a bit.

I'd like to think this is going to be easy though.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:18 pm 
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Way to keep it up Evolved! You are really kicking this for good and your attitude is amazing. Truly inspiring.

I don't think it's overly cheating to take the lope, since you're not taking it everyday and not in excessive amounts. As long as it helps and you stick to your plan, to me, it's just one more comfort med that you won't ever need again once you're off sub (well, unless you get sick - hopefully that won't happen). I just think it's amazing that you've done this without other, more prescribed comfort meds like benzos, etc.! I will be doing the same thing, especially since I don't have access to them anyway. Lol.

My dropper is 1-.01 ml. It's tiny, so not really much room for dissolving sub in it, so I'm hoping I'll be able to suck up the proper amounts from the 8mg sub/ 8ml I'll have dissolved in the pill bottle. I'm hoping to avoid the undissolved pill specks in this way, aiming for equal doses, if I shake up the bottle before dosing. Hope that makes sense.

It's great to hear how well you are doing at this low dose. Constant encouragent for the rest of us! You're almost there!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:50 pm 
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BK,

I get you now. It goes from 1ML down to 0.01ML. Sounds like its probably somewhat small and has very fine lines or am I wrong on that?

Yeah - So for the benzos etc - I'd been experimenting with them on off days in the past (around .5MG) to get a feel for what they'd do. I've taken them in the past hence why I have them, but yeah I don't really know if they'll be that necessary TBH. Really, the main things I'm worried about out of the things I'll probably experience are the sleeplessness, not so much the RLS, and any aches / pains that might creep up. Everything else isn't that bad. But yeah, while tapering I really haven't needed much of anything. I think skipping days so often at least prepped me mentally so when I did taper using the liquid below .5MG I was like wow this is like not even 1/10th of what I felt skipping days.

But in terms of the loperamide, after writing my previous post I'd considered only taking that since it seems to provide a lot more relief than just the suboxone at this dose. That said, I didn't and am not sure if I will or wont eventually. I have my 0.04MG dose in my mouth right now, and I feel the stomach stuff creeping back again, but I'm sticking to my eating plan / tying to get by on what I can and not what I think I need. I'm pretty sure if i took between 2-5MG of Valium and 2-4MG of Lope right now, I'd feel 100% fine. Though, why do that now when I still have two more days?

Dunno if when I stop dosing the subs that the lope will also be as strong. it sort of feels like they were somewhat synergistic? I don't really know.

Basically my plan though is to go through the days on lope, and if i absolutely need valium I'll take it. If not - kava or 5htp will probably be my bedtime stuff. I've got good self control and having this many things to chose from doesn't really make me feel tied down to needing one which is actually a benefit for me right now I think.

I do think I'd like to feel some of the pain of WD though. Mostly so I know it's bad and I don't do this again. Sure a soft landing would be better than full on WD's - but I really feel like if getting off opiates was easy it couldn't really be that much better. Then again, it's the pain that keeps you on the rollercoaster. IDK! food for thought.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:37 pm 
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Decided to post again today (I've been posting a lot recently). Hopefully it's not too much but felt that the play by play at this low of a dose and this close to jump are probably useful for some people.

At the moment the hot/cold sweats are back, its very minor. More minor than usual. Took a shower earlier, which provided some relief for what felt like the onset of some discomfort and it worked for a bit, but now that discomfort which I think was mostly mental anyways is now like the start of a lingering headache. It's not quite a headache, but it feels like the feeling right before you get one. I can't explain it really well. Its like a brain fog precursor thing.

Not sure I'm going to get RLS tonight, don't think so as of now. I honestly think that loperamide from yesterday is still doing a pretty good job of keeping the symptoms I usually feel nightly a bit more minimized.

Oh, and my stomach is fine - but I broke down and had a grilled cheese sandwich earlier, though with steamed vegetables instead of fries.

Here's a tip for me in terms of sleeping with RLS. I don't know that this is entirely smart or healthy really but I tend to find a somewhat of a minor stretch position and sleep in that. Im not talking the kind of stretch you do post workout, Something like twisting your ankle slightly, enough to provide relief. I'm not saying it should be a deep stretch at all. Just not in your usual resting position. With my arms, I put them over my head like im kissing my bicep. That provides just enough of a stretch to kill the RLS in my arms. My back however I haven't figured anything out for. If you sleep in these positions too long you can wake up with stiffness - keep that in mind. Don't go crazy with it but if you're comfortable and desperate for relief, it might be worth a shot. Remember, less is more.

Seems that mental fog is gone now that I've been back and forth writing this message. Tomorrow's my last day on suboxone. That's a scary thought but I just want to be normal. I've never been this prepared for what's to come and honestly I'm pretty psyched for this to all be over.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:26 pm 
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Hey Evolved,

Just wanted to wish ya lots of luck on ur last day tomorrow. I truly believe u can do this. I've never heard of someone being more prepared than u are. It's been pretty cool following ur journey through this liquid taper and then to follow u through the final part. Anyway, just wanted to give ya some encouragement and say great job & keep on chugging along lol!!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:24 pm 
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Thanks, Jennjenn! Today's the big day. I'm not really that nervous yet, mostly excited. I've decided I'll be posting here as long as I can mentally get out of the funk I may end up in. If not, I'll probably be sleeping whenever I can, playing lots of video games and catching up on TV.

I found this kind of interesting - Usually at higher doses when I'd skipped days, listening to music was pretty unbearable. It sapped the fun out of the music, and really mostly the music was just more annoying than being worthwhile to listen to. The same for most loud noises. I haven't had that in a while, probably not since around dropping below .5. The same could be said for the more serious aches / pains. The kinds you get when you have the flu, but amplified.

I tried my own advice again last night since I'd ended up with enough mild RLS to actually wake up during the night and was unable to get comfortable. I tried my usual positions. Mostly the RLS that was most annoying was in my wrists. I generally get it in my wrists, arms, back, ankles and legs up to my knees. Most of those are not that bad (legs especially for some reason), with the wrists and arms usually being the most annoying as of late. I couldn't figure out a interesting position so i jammed my hands in between the bed frame and the mattress and that kind of worked. In the end, I got out of bed, took some RLS meds and just waited it out. Slept later than usual. Woke up tired today.

I still have that lingering almost headache but not quite in my head, and my back feels like its going to have bad RLS later maybe? Depends on the dose I guess. My wrists too. That's probably a downside to working on the computer a lot, the wrists get overused, and chances are it's related to that, or maybe it isn't. During the day I find rolling my wrists and ankles helps those two areas a bit as of now. Not sure if it will help once I'm off though if it gets more severe.

I failed at eating healthy today but I tried. Ran out of salad and ordered one online but the place won't deliver due to all of the snow, so I'm stuck with what I have which is mostly carby crap. That's unfortunate. Hopefully it doesn't make things worse. I'll need to figure out my dinner tonight well before I eat it that way the delivery thing won't happen again.

I'm technically working tomorrow, but I'll be off by this time tomorrow so by the time it actually gets annoying (probably post 5PM) I'll have ample time to prepare myself mentally.

I'll probably dose later than my usual time today, and hopefully I can avoid the loperamide one more day. I've done it already, and losing 30 mins of sleep for potentially feeling better tomorrow is not a huge loss I don't think.

I haven't been sweating as much in bed, but I think that might be because I've been going to bed with a sweatshirt on, and that's helped me not keep my entire body covered with the blanket at all times. That blanket is pretty heavy. Though the colder temps in the room (I usually wake up when the heater is going on - possibly the noise, possibly because its cold + RLS is worse) may be the reason my RLS is worse in my upper body than my lower especially last night. It could also be because I'd kept the heating pad on my legs all day.

It would be pretty neat if I was moderately normal at this point next week. Hopefully work next Monday + Tues aren't that bad, but if things are especially crappy I can probably skip the one meeting I have during that time.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:33 pm 
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Small surprise today. I decided to jump today, not tomorrow. Long story short, I wanted the most time possible between now and technically next monday. Tomorrow won't be bad. I've dealt with 3 days of skipping at higher doses, so there's almost no way I won't be able to get through my morning routine tomorrow.

Would rather the acute stuff be as gone as possible earlier in the week next week, so that's what made me make the decision.

Most of the funk I felt earlier, some aches, joint RLS related and head fog is now gone and replaced by mostly tiredness. Kind of weird it got easier and not harder, but this could just be a easy patch, post 24 hour luckiness. Hopefully it lasts for a while. Only thing that still is bothering me from before really is this spot in the middle of my back which just feels like I need a massage or need to be cracked or something idk. Stomach is fine too. I dunno. I'll probably report back once more before bed to give the true day 1 report since its still only about 25 hours since my last dose.

Not sure if I'm taking anything tonight yet. I'll figure it out as the evening progresses.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:29 am 
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Yay for jumping earlier than you'd planned Evolve! Sounds like your'e more than ready, so you can do this!

It was interesting, as with everything else you've written, to read about your thoughts on comfort meds. The lope has held you thus far, so if you do need to take it again, it will be short term, so you won't have any problems with it long term. Awesome.

I hear you on the music situation; I have no idea why, but I love music so much until I'm experiencing WDs, then it annoys me and I can't handle it, any of it, which makes me sad until I'm over Wds and then it's like a new beginning for my love of music all over again. One more thing to look forward to once this is over, right?

I bet you'll be fine with the food you have until the weather lessens/you're feeling better. At this point, you're so low in your dose/taper, you'll feel minimal WDs, so the food shouldn't be too much of a factor. Plus, you have the next few days off, so you'll have time to recover. I made it through WDs with grilled cheese and veggies for a few days once, and that was from full on evil opiate WDs, so I bet you'll be fine (not that this is your only food source, but you know what I mean). :D

Anyway, you're so close now! Keep taking it easy, watching TV, playing video games, and trying not to think about the rest of the world. You can get back to the world later, once you feel better, so try not to worry about it until then. I'm so happy for you; you're nearly there!

Oh and I forgot to add: yes, my syringe is small, so it's 1ml all the way down to .01ml, with tiny notches in between. I'm hoping this won't be too hard to measure, as I plan to make my drops every .05ml. So, my first drop will be from 1mg to .95mg (1ml to .95ml) and so on. I hope this works, but if you have any advice, I'm all ears! Of course, I don't expect you to answer right now, considering what you're going through. BEST OF LUCk!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:47 am 
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Hi Again BK,

So yeah the music thing gives me something to look forward to but even now it's like music is still entirely fine. In fact in a few seconds here I'm going to give my full day 1 review which is a bit stranger than I could've predicted.

It's officially been about 32 hours since my last dose. I actually felt the funk mentioned in my previous message but since then things got easier, quite a bit. I actually feel 100% normal until around a half hour ago when I started to feel tired but it's kinda late out here, and I usually go to bed around now, so this is normal I'd think. Oddly there's literally no WD symptoms yet and those that were bothering me before just up and vanished around 6 or 7PM my time (about 6 hours ago).

I don't know whats up with that and I'll reserve judgement until tomorrow. I don't think I'm going to have issues sleeping though I've said that before. Ankles/Wrists and even my back are all fine right now. There's no way I'd be that lucky that I'm going to get out of this without really anything, and as I mentioned before, I don't even want that really. I need a deterrent, something to tell me that Suboxone is bad and I need to stay away.

No aids tonight btw. I want to see how bad the sleep will be. Hopefully it won't be. Maybe these last few days of feeling semi shitty have been lope comedown related, and not suboxone related? that would be weird, but who knows. I felt normal like this back then too, and truthfully, about today was when I figured most of it would be out of my system, so there's that.

I'll post again tomorrow, probably around my dose time, and then again at night. I'll keep this up as much as I can until I can say I'm past the acute stage and then do a summary of the whole taper, and my final thoughts on the jump.

night.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:06 pm 
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Just wanted to post real quick. I had some really strange things happen last night.

I ended up getting to bed around 2AM my time, didn't actually fall asleep till about 5:30AM. Started with 5HTM around 2:30AM. Didn't think it did anything except make me tired, and I had that Tired but Unable to sleep feeling. Felt somewhat manic in a way but not really, mostly annoied that I couldn't sleep.

Here's the weird thing though. It wasn't what I'd consider my traditional RLS. None of my anything hurt, and really my joints weren't uncomfortable or needed to be moved. It was itches in my feet, and sometimes legs that did it. They were so persistent, and wouldn't stop. Weird right? I generally get the itches from Subs and other opiates REALLY bad, and suboxone as you guys might know I'm actually allergic to, which makes me itch ALL over all of the time. It sucks (and comes with some physical symptoms of allergies as well).

Anyways, the itches have been mostly minimal during my taper, but last night they were unbearable. I can't really wrap my head around it. Around 4:30 AM I woke up, took two loperamide (Imodium) and went back to bed. Fell asleep within the hour (itches dissipated). Seems they were probably related to the detox process.

Just so you know, my diet is pretty "normal" there's not much new there and I think it's safe to rule out diet. And you guys who have been reading know my medical intake, so it doesn't seem to be a new medical thing. I searched around for info on it, and why it would happen but haven't found much of anything.

Best way I can describe it, it felt like anything that touched my feet instantly made them itch, and only after I'd laid down. If I got back up, it went away mostly (the longer I was standing the more it would go away).

Slept from about 5:30AM until 11:30AM. Most of the rest of my sleep was undisturbed but I felt overtired from the 5HTP once I did wake up.

I still feel normal, though now I think it has something to do with the Lope which I felt like if i didn't use I'd probably not have slept last night. Weird how the lope and its minor opiate effects are still strong atm for me. I'll report back later after I've eaten and it's after the 48 hour mark.

evolved.

Quick edit: It sort of felt like my feet which were somewhat sensationless (in the sense that they were normal but kind of dull?) during the process except for way earlier (last fall) when I'd get like sharp shooting stinging pain occasionally in my feet. I thought they were bug bites. Though once the bug season went away, I realized it was probably not and likely nerve related. In the end that went away too once I'd cut down below .5MG, and really only happened when I was skipping days. That sharp pain though was enough to wake me up a few times, and was VERY annoying for a period of a few weeks when I dropped below 1MG. Mostly it kept me from sleeping a few times, maybe for 2 weeks during that time. I tried sleeping on the couch, which helped somewhat but really I got used to it and slept through it by the end of the two week period. I remember this happening near the beginning though when I got back on subs too. Back then though it came with a jerky twitch response.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:36 pm 
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So it's been almost 49 hours since my last dose of suboxone. The most I'm getting is some tingling in my feet right now. I feel entirely normal otherwise. Even the easiest days of the taper were harder than this. I don't get why this is so easy but whatever really. I hope sleep isn't an issue.

From about 11:30-2:15 I worked - and went out briefly. Ate lunch, was tired from the 5htp I think, even though I'm not enirely sure since I haven't taken it too often to know how tired it makes me. Didn't feel like opiate WD tiredness though. That's a bit more acute and kind of makes you want to shut down right away - at least for me.

Went back to bed around 2:45, slept until 4:45 to make up for lost sleep.

Dunno, I don't expect much else today really. Maybe the acute WD hasn't even begun yet, but I can't see how that's possible seeing as how I skipped days for so long, and the liquid taper.

I'm sweating a little, but this feels like its from the heat currently on my legs more so than anything else. I'm not profusely sweating like I once was.

It's funny, but I couldve probably not taken off work if it was going to be like this. Oh well. Mini vacation? I'm going to stay home probably for the rest of these days but chances are I wouldn't have to.

I really feel like the worst of what I experienced was front loaded during the skipping days and got easier and easier until now. Might be some benefit to that after all? Oddly, my friend did the same thing as me and he also reported that it was far easier than he couldve imagined and didn't feel bad really at all. I figured he was just lucky.

evolved.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:14 pm 
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Hi ER,

Wow, how cool would it be if you didn't get any of the WD symptoms? I hope you don't. I think you'd be feeling them by now, since you were on such a low dose, so I bet you won't feel them at all! Hope is all we have sometimes, eh?

Anyway, I'm so happy for you. You're nearly there! Your posts are still giving me hope that my own taper and then final jump will be like yours: bearable. Take it easy and best of luck!
Oh, one more thing; I also have had bad experiences with doctors. I'm doing this on my own too, so your story and success is so awesome and encouraging. I'm not a doc basher, I just have to do this on my own, like you. I got myself into it and I need to get myself out. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:26 pm 
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BK it's pretty more than bearable. I think the hardest part was probably around when I first started posting. I haven't really had leg pain since probably around .37+MG or so of my dose, and everything since then has felt easier and easier.

You sound like me when I was commenting on my friends detox process. I was like "wow thats amazing you got off but didn't really suffer at all". To some degree knowing I wouldn't be that lucky myself. I'm not going to call it out now but yes, you're right it would be pretty amazing. But you can be that lucky as well.

Still nothing in terms of feeling like crap. I actually feel more normal today than I have in a long time, more alive, stronger, healthier. Just better overall. Not gonna question it. One thing I figure is this extremely positive mental attitude might have to do with the 5HTP. Its possible my seratonin levels were low, and it's partially what comes with the 5HTP territory and partly why I decided to dose that, and not something else for my first day. Once I realized the 5HTP wasn't doing anything to help me sleep, I couldve probably gone to Kava or Benzos, but I've heard enough about people accidentally taking too many sleeping aids and not waking up. I'm not a young dude anymore - I'm 35. I'd rather not play that game like I have many many times in the past.

Anyways - I did want to come clean about a few things. In the past I'd said I've not really done full agonists "like that". I don't know if thats true actually. What I can say for a fact is I've been on pills most of my life, probably since I was 19 or 20. Between benzos, and Valium, occasional Hydros, oxy, fentanyl etc. Though in my mind I considered Oxy / Fent and very rare D usage full agonist. Anyways, the truth is, I never did really experience WD like I had on Suboxone with anything else. I don't know why, and I didn't know what I was getting into. To clarify a bit though most of these drugs were taken to offset health related issues. Most were perscribed with the obvious ones not.

So what I can say right now at least is, this is easier than taking Vicodin once and then stopping. Perhaps its the loperamide masking most of it though.

evolved.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:54 pm 
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Just got up a little while ago.

Ended up falling asleep relatively easily with the help of 1 2MG loperamide about a hour before bed (1AM). I was probably sleeping by 3:30AM mostly kept up by my dog who was sleeping most of the day. That's normal though. At no point did I have RLS though, and really no other symptoms to speak of.

Otherwise I woke up at the usual time, somewhere in the realm of 5 or 6AM as I have on all of the days I've had RLS, except this time I made it back to bed pretty fast. Ended up sleeping until about 11AM my time. When getting out of bed I felt the lingering head fog, and maybe the start of some aches but mostly it seemed pretty subdued and could probably be explained by how dry / dehydrated I felt.

Curious if today will be easier or harder than the last few days. I'll post again after about 5PM out here.

evolved.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:43 pm 
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So today's been probably the hardest so far, but still probably a 1/10 in terms of actually being hard.

There's some mild depression that comes and goes, and my legs still feel like the onset of some achyness. I was pretty tired until about a hour ago with the peak tiredness lasting a few hours.

Took a B6 with lunch, L-Tyro to combat the tiredness post lunch (about a hour ago). Then 1 2MG Loperamide about 30 mins ago to combat everything else. It's probably bearable even without these aids, but the depression is probably the worst at the moment. I have not much to be depressed about but I just felt like crap there for a minute. Things are better mostly now, with just the achyness persisting.

Dunno if things will continue to get more difficult tomorrow. I'm trying to reduce loperamide use not increase it, so chances are I might not take it for bedtime tonight. That would mean either 5HTP which I think is my best bet, but chances are I won't get that burst of seratonin / happiness that I got the other day again, probably not for a week or so.

I'm finding controlled breathing helps with the depressing / anxiety a bit though.

Right now I can probably say with a clear conscious that this is without a doubt easier than skipping days even post jump, and significantly easier than my 2MG jump. It's almost not comparable. If you can put up with skipping at least 1 to 2 days at higher doses, and taper like I did you'll see what I mean probably.

Might be back later tonight.

Cya,

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:53 pm 
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So last night was actually moderately challenging, not going to lie.

Here's a quick breakdown of everything.

Around 6PM I ended up taking a Magnesium for some Back pain that had been creeping up. It seemed to do nothing really. Tried Tiger Balm and some Ibuprofin, as well as a second Loperamide, none of these did anything and I was forced to tough it out.

I did end up taking a 5HTP around the same time, which added a pretty hefty dose of tiredness back into the mix which combined with the usual tiredness was pretty rough.

Ended up eating some food and doing my usual routine. Around 11PM though the tiredness lifted, and my back finally stopped hurting for some reason. Don't know why really. Ended up staying up until about 1AM, and going to bed around then. Falling asleep was no problem, staying asleep was easier than the past few days, no waking up except to flip over a few times. My back pains didn't come back either, and mostly RLS felt less pronounced than previous days which were also bearable.

Woke up today feeling much better than I did yesterday at this time - sleeping about 9.5 Hours. More than I have in the last week on any single day. I could've probably slept longer as well, but I decided to wake up since I was pretty excited to get these notes out considering I feel a bit better.

I don't really expect anything crazy yet today, considering how I feel, this seems similar to day 1-2 in terms of how hard it might end up being. I'll know more later though.

evolved.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:38 pm 
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I have to say I'm pretty dang excited about your results so far, ER. For all of the people who are willing to tough out a long taper, there is a payoff in the end.

Keep the updates coming!

Q

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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
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