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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:48 am 
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Lillyval wrote:
Just wanted to bump this to ask this question again:

I heard from another source that you should switch to Subutex at the end of your taper, because the tiny bit of naloxone you ingest blocks the natural endorphins. Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?


I actually think there is some truth to this. While tapering, I called all over the country to ask for assistance from any doctor with a solid Sub background. Several recommended switching to Subutex. My doc had a blanket rule and would not give it to me/did not believe it made a difference. If you have the option, you should switch IMO. You can also spit out the Naloxone. I did not do this, only because the pieces got so small and I didn't know when it was time to spit. :D

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:54 am 
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Yeah, so I said I felt great, but I guess that was relative to the previous week. Once I got stable on 0.75 mg I settled I to what I consider just a low level of feeling shitty. I wake up in minor WD, like with that skin crawling feeling, and exhausted. Then I take my dose and it takes about 2 hours to start feeling better. Then I take my 2nd dose about 6 hours later, which is usually about 12:00 or 1:00. Then I'm more or less ok until evening, when I'm not sick, but pretty much worthless.

So the bottom line is I'm just limping along, not really in WD but not really ever feeling decent either. So I think it's time to bite the bullet and do what it takes to get my body to start going back to normal (whatever that is).
I took 0.25 mg today (I'm at work) and I have a couple of things I have to get through this week-end, not the least of which is getting through the funeral of the little boy who died. So I'll be taking 0.25 mg before each event that I have to power through (one each day Sat. and Sun.). And that's it. I'm jumping.

BTW I looked into that naloxone question. The info. I got says that the small amount that is ingested stays in the GI tract and helps block some of the bupe from the receptors in the bowel, which helps bowel motility. It is believed not to affect the receptors in the brain. So I think tapering on Suboxone is OK.

Wish me luck,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:57 am 
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Lilly,
I've read through your thread this morning, and big congrats to you! I am weaning now, and I totally agree that I can't believe I was taking 16 mgs at one time because 4 seems like so much now!

I hope you can get thru the next couple of days alright and get rid of the last of the sub for good. That emotional response to the withdrawal is what is scaring the heck out of me. It sounds like you got thru it, so I am proud of you!

Keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:48 am 
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Lillyval wrote:
Yeah, so I said I felt great, but I guess that was relative to the previous week. Once I got stable on 0.75 mg I settled I to what I consider just a low level of feeling shitty. I wake up in minor WD, like with that skin crawling feeling, and exhausted. Then I take my dose and it takes about 2 hours to start feeling better. Then I take my 2nd dose about 6 hours later, which is usually about 12:00 or 1:00. Then I'm more or less ok until evening, when I'm not sick, but pretty much worthless.

So the bottom line is I'm just limping along, not really in WD but not really ever feeling decent either. So I think it's time to bite the bullet and do what it takes to get my body to start going back to normal (whatever that is).
I took 0.25 mg today (I'm at work) and I have a couple of things I have to get through this week-end, not the least of which is getting through the funeral of the little boy who died. So I'll be taking 0.25 mg before each event that I have to power through (one each day Sat. and Sun.). And that's it. I'm jumping.

BTW I looked into that naloxone question. The info. I got says that the small amount that is ingested stays in the GI tract and helps block some of the bupe from the receptors in the bowel, which helps bowel motility. It is believed not to affect the receptors in the brain. So I think tapering on Suboxone is OK.

Wish me luck,
Lilly


That is exactly how I felt at 1 mg when I said I was stuck. Not terrible, but morning symptoms and just feeling 'blah' and limping through the day. You could not have described it any better. I know for me, it took a long time to get past that big hump. It seemed to go on forever. I can see the benefit now of just jumping and getting it over with. Really, the acute part probably may stink for a handful of days, but unless you are going to taper very low, you might as well just get it over with. Winter is upon us and I think you can do this. You're a tough cookie. Best of luck, Lilly!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:13 am 
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When I got off of Suboxone, the MOST important key to my success was that I wanted it more than anything in my life. I made the decision I was done with it and never looked back.

Lilly, it sounds like you feel the same way and I believe you're gonna find success!

Keep us posted and know that we're here for ya too!!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:45 pm 
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Lilly I am so proud of you, being smart and in control. Have a wonderful day!

Robin


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:19 pm 
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Hey Lilly-Keep us posted on how you feel and what you jumped from!
I am jumping in a couple months myself. Im at 1.5 and I may stick here and then jump-I am going to try to get to 1mg...
Best of wishes!


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 Post subject: I Jumped
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:11 am 
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I threw on a backpack, jumped on a train and spent two days at Occupy Wall Street, and yes, I slept out on the ground in the middle of NYC (which is a pretty big stretch for me not being a city girl at all).

So I was basically as motivated as I've ever been in my entire life, and I decided it was now or never. I wasn't able to stay at 0.25 mg (big surprise there) and the day before I jumped I took 1 mg, but I had been averaging 0.5mg for the previous 2+ weeks.

Its about day 3 now and i feel kinda shitty, but nothing compared to going off full agonists.

This is what I experienced going off FULL AGONISTS:
1.an excruciating backache and body aches that went through my muscles and nerves all the way into my bones
2.RLS
3. relentless stomach cramping and non-stop diarrhea
4. That creepy crawly nerve feeling that makes you want to tear your skin off, or preferably, just die
5. sleep issues

This is what I'm experiencing going off 0.5 mg Sub
1. major fatigue, where if I get up and do the smallest thing I'm exhausted
2. Yet, when I lay down to rest I'm antsy and anxious and can't relax
3. I had a dull persistent headache (which actually started at 0.5 mg) for which took Fiorinal which worked wonders and helped the anxiety because it has a tiny bit of barbiturate in it - but I'm out now.
4. Mood swings

I've been taking some immodium sort of pre-emptively, and I've been taking Xanax at night which knocks me out cold, so sleep hasn't been an issue. Honestly, for those who have been told that Sub WD is the worst ever, which would you rather choose, scenario A or B? I'll stick with B thank you very much. I SO believe I can do this!

Also, what everybody said about the music? I cannot get enough of it. Over the past 2 years being on Sub, I didnt even care that my kids had erased all my music off my iPod and filled it up with Spongebob videos. Well I undid that in a hurry. I can do exactly nothing without the music playing. It's my new drug of choice, everything from old sixties protest ballads to hard rock, the harder the better.

For anyone thinking of jumping, you can do it. I am officially the biggest baby in the world. So if I can do it (and I know I can), anyone can.
Peace,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:45 am 
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Wow! You are doing really well Lilly. Seems despite a couple of steps backward, you've got your heart set on this, so it's only a matter of time.

I'm not surprised your withdrawals are heaps easier than your drug of choice, given you were on a less than 1mg dose. The times I jumped off were 6mg's + at least, and that was always going to be painful.

I'm not 100% certain about the switching to Subutex because of the naloxone thing. Especially given that the dose of naloxone would be so minoscule when dealing with 0.5mg and below. I know that people often switch to Subutex because you can get Subutex in 0.4mg pills, which is a godsend for people tapering. (I question why RB don't have the same dose of Suboxone, but why would they wanna make it easy for us to taper! :lol: There's another thing to protest :lol: )

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you had a relatively cruisy detox you could function through. Are you sleeping okay? I think it's really important to be kind to yourself, while still doing what you can, if you get what I mean. Long baths / showers are fantastic, and ibuprofen is good for the aches. Any opiate will potentially prolong your detox, so be wary of codeine / tramadol etc, as tempting as they may be at times. And stay hydrated! And eat fruit! You will be more emotional, and prone to tears over little things. One of those beautiful ironies of opiate detox is how sensitive we can become.

Sneezing I've always taken as a sign that I'm getting over the worst of the withdrawals, esp with buprenorphine / methadone, as they'd always come a bit later on. I remember with Subox I was sneezing for a number of weeks after, as if I was sneezing the last of the bupe out of my head. If you get this, look at it as a cleansing process. :lol:

And like Romeo said, if ur heart is dead set on putting the opiates behind you, long term recovery is there for the taking.

t

PS: I hear you about music! Jeez it's like the emotional flood gates are opened, and every song speaks to you in a way they haven't for a long time. It's really good. Subox definitely does blunt one's appreciation of music. I can't wait til the day I can fully rock out again :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:04 am 
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Lilly, you know what you get, right?? A big ole Fuckin' Eh!!!

You put a smile on my face when you said you strapped on a back-pack and went to the protest. Then I did a :shock: when you told us you jumped, I thought to myself, "Look at this girl go!!!"

You seem to be managing your wd really well, that's fantabulous!!!

That's a big 10-4 on the music too!! I love how you said the harder the better, I love my rock music......hard and loud!!! I have no doubt music is my new drug of choice too. It lifts me up, it motivates me, it comforts me, it's gets me rocking my head back and forth and I can't imagine not having it.

Tear brought up a good point about the music, it's like all these songs speak to me like never before. Very cool.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:51 am 
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Hey Lilly,

I was wondering how you are feeling? I know its only been a couple days since you posted but just checking in. You are doing great!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:53 am 
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YOU GO GIRL!
That is awesome. I am at 1mg and feel GREAT.
I am stoked you went to Wall st!
ANyway, you give me some inspiration because I dont feel that the wd will be anything compared to say, dilaudid or heroin.
Cheers! Keep us posted!!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:11 pm 
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I dont know if you guys saw that I posted on another thread that I cracked and started 0.25 mg doses. Then yesterday I got the bright idea that 0.5 mg would be even better! So today I cut open 20+ foil packets of 2 mg strips and put them down the garbage disposal with hot water and bleach, saving just one 0.5 mg piece for my workday Friday. Then, as I was tearing up the box I realized that the Doc had given me 3 refills on it - and he NEVER gives refills. There have been so many times in my life when I was desperately out of drugs and couldn't get any, and now after believing I had been cut off, it seems like I can't stop the supply.
Anyway, like the rational adult that I am, I spent the next two hours just sobbing, and I don't even know why. I feel like I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't. I really, really want to be off all opiates but I'm terrified of not having any. I feel really fucked up. I honestly wish I had never started Sub, because this is the exact same spot I was in after self detoxing off of pain pills (although I must admit that that detox was a lot more painful). I keep telling myself don't quit five minutes before the miracle happens - but it is just so fucking hard.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:32 pm 
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Lily, I would stay on a low dose or skip days until you get all that stacked up sub out of your system. Life is hard enough.
Why put yourself through undue pain. Like you, I am so ready to be off sub, but why put my body through that if I don't have to. Be good to yourself and do not put too much pressure on yourself.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:36 pm 
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Lilly….great job my friend. Your right, it is VERY fuckin hard, but you can push through this. I promise you will feel better and look back and pat yourself on the back. I was in your position about a month ago and I can almost feel the pain again just thinking about you. I’m sure it’s easier said than done, but take it day by day and eventually you will see light at the end of the tunnel.

If your WD is anything like mine was, please don’t get discouraged. What I mean is that I noticed I didn’t feel better every day. It was about every 3 days I felt a little better. This was what almost broke me because you automatically think you should be getting better day by day. While you actually may be getting better day by day it doesn’t seem that way and can be very frustrating. Maybe that was just me, but thought I would throw it out there for ya! Good luck, you can do this!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:54 am 
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I'm really depressed right now. Last night I got up out of bed after midnight and went out to a bar to drink. Normally I never drink, have never liked alcohol and have rarely ever been in a bar. When I got home I washed down some Xanax with some vodka. Physically, I'm fine, but emotionally I'm a wreck, and as usual, I'm alone.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:56 am 
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Lillyval wrote:
I'm really depressed right now. Last night I got up out of bed after midnight and went out to a bar to drink. Normally I never drink, have never liked alcohol and have rarely ever been in a bar. When I got home I washed down some Xanax with some vodka. Physically, I'm fine, but emotionally I'm a wreck, and as usual, I'm alone.


Lilly, this is the mental black stuff that scares me so much. I don't know if you would even consider it, but after seeing how tough it can be to jump too high and what emotional turmoil it can cause, do you think it's possible that you could go back on a small dose (like .25) and taper from there? You don't have to go through this. The only reason you are going through this is because you don't feel like you have control over how you taper. I KNOW that feeling. It's just so easy to take extra. However, we learn a lot from doing stuff the hard way. Maybe this rough time hasn't been in vain. You could get back on at .25, stabilize, and taper to 1/16 and stop with nearly no symptoms. There is that option available. It frustrates me so much to see how most people cannot taper all the way, because after going on Sub to get into recovery, it seems so backwards that any of us should have to suffer so much in the end.

((HUGS)), sweetie. Please watch the alcohol!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:54 pm 
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Lilly…sorry to hear about what you’re going through. I will say that I drank on day 14 to celebrate two weeks off suboxone and I can tell you the next day I felt like CRAP. I mean I had never been that depressed in my life, period. The next day I felt much better and had a much more clear mind. But that day after I had some crazy things going through my head. I decided detoxing from subs and alcohol DID NOT mix AT ALL…..at least for me. Hopefully you feel better tomorrow!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:01 am 
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Thanks you guys, I feel a little better today. I'm back up to just plain old feeling lousy. I'm so fucking pissed at myself for ever getting on Sub. But I guess I'm not in a really good place to make a judgement, so I'll put of commenting further on that until I get through the worst of this.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:09 am 
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Lilly - I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time with this. But it's so damn easy to look backwards and say how easy it could have been to have done X way back when. You just don't know what you could have done back then and it does you no good to second guess yourself now. It will only serve to drive yourself nuts. You are where you are now and you can only look forward. I know that's probably easier said than done. Please try not to make yourself crazier by doing this to yourself. You CAN and WILL get through this. I know it doesn't feel like it now, but I've watched you go through tough times before and have seen you pull through. I know you can this time again.

Try to stay as active and distracted as possible. But do watch the drinking - you don't want to get in the habit of replacing one substance with another (I'm not saying you're doing that now, but it could become that in the future - just watch for it).

Hang in there, maybe try to find a new hobby - something to really take up a lot of your time. Thinking of you.

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