It is currently Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:53 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:22 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 3
I like this gentleman, and he is a suboxone addict. Before I take this relationship any further, I would like to know what to expect. He also states that he wants to get off of it, but has an anxiety disorder, so he would like to be treated for both his addiction and the disorder.
While I want to stand by him, I also want to know what to expect while I am trying to stand strong. I have never dealt with this before, or wrote in a forum like this before asking for help in understanding.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:10 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Hi E and welcome to the forum. I think before I can offer you any guidance I guess I need to understand what you mean by "suboxone addict". Those of us on suboxone treatment via a doctor are doing so to treat our opiate addiction. We are not addicted to suboxone. Yes, we are dependent on it, but not addicted. We were addicted to our previous drug(s) of choice - "regular" pain pills. Suboxone takes us out of that full-on active addiction and helps us to take control of what is always a downward spiral and dead end.

Maybe you could give us some more information about your friend and we can then try to offer you as much advice and support as we are able.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:18 am 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 3
I am sorry. As I said, first time poster in this sort of arena. I am trying to understand to help this gentleman I am seeing. Thank you for the correction! :)

He thought he left his suboxone at home the other day when he was up at my house, and he was really hurting. He fell into a panic, and I had to take him home (2 hours away) to even start to calm him down. He has anxiety attacks also. It turns out we found them in my car.

I guess the outpatient meth clinic wants him off suboxone, and on meth again, because it is easier for the doc to treat. He has lied to me before, so I don't know if this is the truth or not. I have not asked him outright, but he tells me he has been addicted to oxys and meth. He has been an addict for 9 years.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:59 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:22 pm
Posts: 101
Hi E-hardt and welcome to the forum. He is lucky to be in like with someone like you who does not dismiss his treatment out of hand as trading one addiction for another.

Just a heads up that most people around here prefer the term "methadone" to "meth", as many interpret meth to mean methamphetamine. Obviously using the term meth in reference to a clinic makes it clear, although I'm sure there are plenty of people in this world who would welcome a methamphetamine clinic!

I have no insights on what you can expect, except to say Suboxone treatment tends to put the universal addict behavior into remission and the individual personality traits that make us unique individuals return over time.

Best of luck to you and your liker.
Jimmy












































































Jimmy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:36 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Hi again E -

Do you know what dose of suboxone he is taking? When you said he misplaced the sub and was hurting and fell into a panic, what did you mean? Does he take suboxone also for pain (some of us do) or were you saying that he was feeling like he was having withdrawals between doses? Do you think the anxiety and panic could have just been him totally freaking out because he couldn't find his medication? Has he been diagnosed by a physician with an anxiety disorder? It sounds like he's in treatment of some kind for his anxiety-is that the case? Does he take benzos for that; and does he want off those, too? If so and he wants to address the benzo situation, many will say it's best to get off other meds or conditions that one might have issues with before going off suboxone.

Sorry for so many questions, but there could be a gazillion different things we could tell you about sub treatment, addiction, anxiety, benzos, stopping suboxone, etc etc. You said he wants off the suboxone...How do YOU feel about him coming off the suboxone? Do you want him to or are you leaving it up to him? Is anyone in his family pressuring him to get off it? Do you know what his reasons were for wanting to discontinue that med? You're wondering why all the additional questions, right? I'm trying to ascertain if he wants off the suboxone for the "right" reasons. By that, I just mean the people who seem to have the best chances for getting off sub and STAYING OFF OPIATES seem to be the ones that have made major changes in their lives or you could say worked their recovery (although I don't like that catch-phrase). For some people this kind of remission/recovery work might be 12-step programs, for others they may prefer the more secular SMART recovery better. For me, I prefer my own individual therapist, while still others go to addiction counselors. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for everyone else!

Suboxone-related questions: Has he done anything since he's been on suboxone to change those bad habits he developed during active addiction? Incidentally, how long has he been on suboxone? And how long in active addiction before that? If he does decide he's ready to go off suboxone, one of the best things for him to be prepared for is the likely return of those opiate cravings that are currently beeing appropriately stifled by the sub. I just don't want him to be surprised by it. In addition to addiction counselors and therapist, there are also workbooks that can help recovering addicts to learn what their triggers are as well as what then triggers my cravings. (Here's some of them on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss? ... ps&x=0&y=0

Once again, sorry for all the damn questions (I swear I'm wrapping this up now!) I hope it doesn't feel like an interrogation to you or to overwhelming. I just didn't want to give you any inaccurate guidance or information.

Try to give us more info IF you can, but don't stress if you can't answer them. Whatever extra info you can offer will be great and very helpful.

OH and sorry to be so long-winded. It's that whole stupid giddiness associated with two nights of no sleep, so please bear with me until I'm back to my old self again. You guys are the best.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:02 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 3
Jimmy~ sorry for the wording..I am trying to find my way through this, and I don't realize all the terms. Thank you for the correction! :) I do not take his addiction lightly, as it is all he can think about at times. I just wish to help him through it.

Hatmaker~ ok, this is what I know:
I am not sure what dose he takes or how long he has taken it. I know he said he was in active addiction for 9 years prior. He told me this when he asked me if I thought he could beat this thing on his own. (I said no)
Yes, he has been seen by a physician and put on disability for his anxiety disorder. Right now, he (should be) taking Wellbutrin. I do not know if this is the case. He did go to the hospital up here when he lost his suboxone, and they prescribed him Klonopin and Lamictal. He wants a place (clinic) that will take into account his anxiety and addiction problem both. I also believe he was scared of the withdrawl when he lost his meds. He has been through withdrawl before when he didn't have enough meds for the month and it really scared him.
Yes, he does take it for pain also from what he said.
The way I feel about this is in his due time, he will be off. He says he wants to, and I choose to believe him. He states he wants to be a "full functioning adult, father, boyfriend and person". I also know that I can only guide him the best that I can, and not pressure him, but not enable him either. I wish for him to be off of everything like he wants, but I told him it is going to take time, but he knows this. His family is not pressuring him as far as I know, he has a real understanding Mother and great kids. He just wants to be drug free because he says he does not want to depend on anything when he gets up in the morning. I feel he should want to be off them, but he can only do this by himself, for himself.
I don't know if he has changed since his active addiction days. Him and I have only been talking deeply for a couple of months. He has started going to a clinic near his home to get off the suboxone and back on methadone. They say it is easier to treat this way.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:43 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Hi E-

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I really have to say, it sure sounds like you have an excellent perspective on this situation. It doesn't really sound like (from what you described) that you're enabling him. Plus you understand that things take time and you respect how he wants to handle things and what he needs - eventually. I think you're right that even though he wants to be med-free, sometimes that does take time. Especially with addiction. You said he was in active addiction for around 9 years. That's a really long time to live in that kind of lifestyle and I believe it will take a lot more time for him to learn to live without depending on drugs. In other words, he will need more time (probably on suboxone - without the cravings to fight, in my opinion), to address all those self-destructive behaviors that he formed. Does he do any recovery work like meetings, groups, therapy, addiction counseling...anything like that?

Suboxone is a great tool, but MOST of us need something more than that. Lots of us got addicted in the first place to self-medicate or to numb emotions...now this may or may not apply to him, but often there are reasons and he might need to explore that.

I guess what I'm saying is if he hasn't done any thing other than take suboxone, when he does get off it, it's again just my opinion that he could be at a higher risk of relapse. Most people agree that they have greater chances of success when coming off suboxone (and by success I mean staying "clean"), if they are "ready" to come off of it. In other words, they are ready to deal with triggers and cravings and have done some major work on themselves. Again, this might not apply to him, but it tends to apply to many addicts.

I hope this helps. I do think YOU are doing a great job in supporting him though. Keep up the good work and just remember to take care of YOU throughout all of this.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:52 pm 
I think one of the original questions was never answered and it was if Methadone is preferable to Suboxone for one who also has anxiety issues that need to be treated. My answer to that would be no, If anything if a patient would 'need' to be on benzodiazepines it would, in fact, be safer to use them with Suboxone than with Methadone as far as overdose potential. Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT advocate for the use of benzodiazepines for anxiety, sleep or even panic in any kind of regular way, personally I feel that it ultimately makes those conditions much worse if benzodiazepines are taken with any kind of regularity. Also, at one point I believe you stated that the guy you are 'in like' with is a few pills shy of a monthly script? For me it was not possible to get 100% into this recovery thing until I stopped using other drugs including Valium, Klonopin, Xanax, sleeping pills, ALL full-agonist opioids including methadone, anything else mood altering including Soma's and Tramadol. I also had to stop bouncing between methadone maintenance programs---->Suboxone Dr's----->'I've got this licked, I want to live completely off all drugs including Suboxone.' I had to realize that everything I had just described was almost as chaotic as when I was on the streets shooting heroin, I was certainly as active in my addiction and every bit as disfunctional. I had to really realize that the entire drug aspect of addiction is a small, small piece that only seems like a big part of the disfunction obviously when I am actively using, for a few months after I quit active addiction, then periodically but rarely probably forever in the form of occasional cravings. It's not something I ever wanted to hear or ever thought I'd be admitting let alone saying years later, but addicts such as myself really do need to make that stereotypical "everything change." People I associate with being successful in recovery do the opposite of what they did when they were in their active addiction. If they were homeless/street junkies, they tend to work if AT ALL possible in recovery. They don't associate much with people in active addiction and tend to have friends that are also positive/trying to be positive people. For me, if I just stopped taking drugs but still was disliked by everyone around me, I still refused to work, I still hung out with junkies, I still was on disability or unemployment a good majority of the time (I personally don't need to be, but certainly have scammed it in the past) and/or stole to support myself and just in general lived like a junkie who wasn't using junk I'd ask: WHY? Why not just use junk too? This is getting long and drawn out and ranty, but the bottom line is that recovery involves a lot more than stopping using ALL drugs, in fact it may not involve stopping using all drugs. For me, the plan is to remain on SOMETHING, whatever that may be, it's currently been Subutex only, extremely successfully, for almost two years.

-Travis


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:36 am 
e-hardt wrote:
I don't know if he has changed since his active addiction days. Him and I have only been talking deeply for a couple of months. He has started going to a clinic near his home to get off the suboxone and back on methadone. They say it is easier to treat this way.


I really doubt that thing about the methadone is true. Methadone is a Schedule II drug and a full-agonist opioid (Suboxone is CIII and partial agonist). Usually people have to go to the clinic 5-6 times per week for quite awhile until they get more "take-homes." Sub patients only go in 1-2 times per month. I go in once every 8 weeks, myself.

Methadone is more addictive, (usually) more costly, and more psychoactive.

I can't say with 100% certainty but him telling you his doctors want him back on methadone because it is "easier to treat" sounds like one big fat junkie stunt to me. I say this as a junkie myself, not as a big insult.

Anyone agree?


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group