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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:30 am 
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[font=Arial] [/font] So heres me background. I started using opiates about ten years ago I graduated to heroin and after being in every rehab, detox, psych ward I used methadone and got most of my life on track. I switched over a year ago to subs for the second time because of the awful side effects from methadone. I was on 24 mgs film now I'm on 16 . I recently started a taper program because of the side effects.I'm only down to 12 mgs and I'm doing this extremely slow. I'm extremely depressed I don't go out I'm content not having a social life and don't have the will inside to change it. I do get depressed about it. I currently was able to regain everything I lost during my addiction. I do in fact have a great life, I have a great paying job, a house, a car and everything that should make myself proud to have again but none of these materials matters I just want happiness. I'm extremely lazy and wish I had it in me to go out but every time anyone asks me to I flake out I don't know what is going on to me mentally to prevent this. I have read alot of sub users experienced this and just need a little hope and ways of being able to change this. Could this also be because of the high dosage I know subs are very powerful alot more powerful than most of us realize. With having said this I need to state that subs really helped me get to this place and I don't have any ill feeling to the medicine because it helped me and tons of others out. I just want to be my old self as soon as I got on subs I broke it off with a long term boyfriend because I just didn't feel in love with him anymore. How does that all of a sudden happen? I don't feel much and I want that same passion for life I had before all these drugs. I miss the intimacy of a relationship but can't bring myself to being close or feeling close to anyone. Any suggestions?


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:05 am 
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There are a myriad of things in our mind/brain/body that affects our mood and feelings, from hormones, medications, emotions, triggers, previous events, brain neurotransmitters, etc etc etc etc....I could go on and on. That doesn't even include past issues!

You could be clinically depressed. Have you been evaluated for that? Have you done any other recovery work, like therapy or anything similar? What I'm asking is have you looked inside to figure out why you abused drugs, what caused things to go so out of control? Did you use drugs to stifle your emotions? If so, where are those emotions now? Could you have numbed them or deadened them because the drugs aren't available to do it for you anymore?

Those are just the few psychological reasons off the top of my head that could be contributing to how you feel.

Some people think suboxone blunts their emotions, like you describe. But I feel (and Dr. Junig agrees) that it's just not that simple. Emotions are such complicated things that it can't just be boiled down to "suboxone took away all of my emotions" and fail to address all the other contributing factors.

Additionally, you stated you started using 10 years ago...TEN years. You've grown ten years older in that time. You need to get to know yourself NOW as you've never known yourself before at this age and "clean". You can't compare yourself NOW to yourself pre-addiction and ten years younger. Consider all the changes you've gone through and how they might have changed you.

Lastly, you could try further reducing your dose. Your lack of interest in intimacy could definitely be a side effect related to the sub. By reducing farther down from 12 mg, you might find your libido returning.

I hope this is making some kind of sense. I'm sorry you're having a hard time. Consider some therapy. I've always found it's a great accompaniment to (successful) opiate remission/recovery.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:21 am 
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Thanks for the advice. Their are a few things I respectively disagree with. In terms of my recovery program yes I have worked the steps I have been in therapy and I've been free from heroin for over four years. I think yes what is probably lacking is a strong program of recovery but I find it so hard to do anything else besides work. After I finish my workday all I want to do is lay around. I am an extremely strong and motivated person and there was a time in my recovery where I was not assisted by medicines so I did experience the real me. I also have a sister who is an addict and experiencing the same thing as me. I've talked to a few sub users who also have these same experiences. It's like your under the influence of a mind altering opiate of course their will be side effects. And I am certain it is the subs. There cannot be this coincidence where all these people are feeling these things and they're we're some who have successful jumped off and now after a few months feel them selves. The reason for the lack of motivation is irrelevant I guess what I want is some hope and looking for people who have experienced this and how they overcame.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:49 am 
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Subuser821 wrote:
I just want to be my old self as soon as I got on subs I broke it off with a long term boyfriend because I just didn't feel in love with him anymore. How does that all of a sudden happen? I don't feel much and I want that same passion for life I had before all these drugs. I miss the intimacy of a relationship but can't bring myself to being close or feeling close to anyone. Any suggestions?


Hey Subuser. I can relate to a lot of the thing you've said. I've actually had on/off depression throughout my life.

I'd just like to say that just because you are feeling depression while you are on Sub, does not necessarily mean that Sub is the cause of your depression. There are other possibilities. You may have always been prone towards depression, or had some kinda mild-anhedonia which is what drew you to use drugs and become addicted - ie drugs "relieved" it in some way. And now you have come out the other end and stabilised on Sub, symptoms of that depression may be returning. It may be that the damage you did to yourself in your addiction left you more prone to depression. I personally believe that if a person ends up addicted to drugs, they are somehow unhappy with themselves and their life and this is why they desire to abuse drugs. ie a 100% mentally healthy happy individual is unlikely to find opioids pleasurable because there's no emotional pain in them that opioids can relieve.

A big indicator to whether you are naturally prone to depression would be to look to family members and see if depression or mental health issues run in the family.

It's also possible the Sub is contributing to your depression in some way like you suggest. There are some people I've spoken to who claim Sub contributes to their depression, and we often hear people who've tapered off Sub say they are happier after they've tapered. I personally feel I'm a touch more prone towards irritability or anhedonia while on Sub, but I have chronic bipolar anyway and the benefits of being on Sub far outweigh the negatives. My depression is treated with medication (Agomelatine, lithium). It may be worthwhile seeing a psychiatrist, especially if you choose to remain on Sub but want to improve your quality of life while on it.

As for the boyfriend thing. Here's the thing a lot of people kinda neglect... The YOU on methadone is a different person to the YOU on Sub... and the YOU on Sub is a different person to the YOU on no opioids at all. I've found that when I've gone from methadone to Sub to abstinence, I change. The difference isn't huge, but it's enough. ie I was with a woman once while I was on methadone. I went to detox to get off the methadone and she turns up 2 weeks in. I look at her and think "why am I with you? what do I see in you?" It's like the me on methadone was attracted to her and loved her, but when I kicked the 'done and went abstinent and my make-up changed, I wasn't the same person who fell in love with her. It was almost like I didn't love her ever!

Same goes for a person who drinks every day and stops drinking, or smokes dope every day and stops smoking, or takes anti-depressants then stops them. On maintenance we have opioids in our system 24/7, so they really become a part of who we are. As people we are always growing, changing, developing, evolving. When big changes occur in our lives, ie we stop taking or change a drug we have in our brain 24x7, is usually one of those moments where theres a big shift in "who we are"...


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:58 am 
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Subuser821 wrote:
[font=Arial] [/font] So heres me background. I started using opiates about ten years ago I graduated to heroin and after being in every rehab, detox, psych ward I used methadone and got most of my life on track. I switched over a year ago to subs for the second time because of the awful side effects from methadone. I was on 24 mgs film now I'm on 16 . I recently started a taper program because of the side effects.I'm only down to 12 mgs and I'm doing this extremely slow. I'm extremely depressed I don't go out I'm content not having a social life and don't have the will inside to change it. I do get depressed about it. I currently was able to regain everything I lost during my addiction. I do in fact have a great life, I have a great paying job, a house, a car and everything that should make myself proud to have again but none of these materials matters I just want happiness. I'm extremely lazy and wish I had it in me to go out but every time anyone asks me to I flake out I don't know what is going on to me mentally to prevent this. I have read alot of sub users experienced this and just need a little hope and ways of being able to change this. Could this also be because of the high dosage I know subs are very powerful alot more powerful than most of us realize. With having said this I need to state that subs really helped me get to this place and I don't have any ill feeling to the medicine because it helped me and tons of others out. I just want to be my old self as soon as I got on subs I broke it off with a long term boyfriend because I just didn't feel in love with him anymore. How does that all of a sudden happen? I don't feel much and I want that same passion for life I had before all these drugs. I miss the intimacy of a relationship but can't bring myself to being close or feeling close to anyone. Any suggestions?




Hi subuser821 and welcome.

I agree with you that the sub is causing your lack of motivation. When I first was on sub I was taking 16 mg. and felt great,had energy, wanted to get out and do things..that was the first year and then the dr. cut me off. ...so I found another sub dr. and started again on 16mg. I have been able to reduce down to 8 both times..and so I have been on sub for about 2 years after a 29 year addiction. This second time, however, I feel just like you..don't want to get out of the house, depression, never get excited about anything, etc.

I feel that my problem is this: While I am on sub, it covers my addiction, which for me is a miracle..so I have no intentions of getting off. These other problems while even maybe caused by sub, shows my inability to grow in my recovery. I think I wanted to just take the pill and be cured...but the truth is...I have a lot of work to do. I must practice non addictive behaviors...like getting out.. and showing up for things I am suppose to be at.. also counseling will help and perhaps going to AA or NA? I just know it is a work in progress..no easy way out.

Slipper

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"For evil to flourish, all that is needed is for good people to do nothing." >> Edmund Burke


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:19 am 
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I somewhat have this issue with life...

SOMEWHAT.

I'm not really depressed, but I enjoy being at home. My wife knows that if it weren't for me being as frugal as I am about spending money on things we don't really need, then we wouldn't have a savings account at all..but when she's at work, all I do is sit home and find something to do (with all these kids here it's NOT hard, trust me)..

It's not really lack of motivation or depression, because I'm happy and I enjoy doing things, like cutting grass with my spanking new Cub Cadet...I find things to piddle with..I don't lie around and watch TV or sleep all the time...hell I can barely make myself sit down at the computer some days because I just don't want to sit still for that long. But I know, when taking Suboxone, that I'm likely to dose off if I don't stay busy or keep moving...so I usually don't sit for long periods of time without doing something...otherwise I'll dose off and I hate to fall out when my 18 month-old niece is trying to tear down the house from the inside.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:37 am 
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I wonder if Suboxone isn't the cause of these problems, but not for what it IS doing, rather for what it's NOT doing.....it's not getting most of us high.

I could relate to almost everything the original poster said, but those symptoms didn't set in until I quit Suboxone. I think because I tried abusing my Suboxone all the time, I was getting some kind of high off of it and those symptoms didn't set in until I went for complete abstinence.

Living without getting high is a shock to the system, it takes a lot of work (for me anyway) to learn how to enjoy life without being able to get high. It takes work for us recovering addicts to find happiness again. We were so used to finding happiness in our pain pills, without those pill, a lot of us are lost as to how to be happy. This is why I think recovery is so important. It teaches us how to live with ourselves, it teaches us new ways of finding happiness, etc.

I honestly believe a lot of us addicts go through the 5 stages of grief when we quit drugs. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression then finally Acceptance. We grieve the loss of our drug, the loss of that high. It takes time AND awareness of the grieving process to get through it.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:47 am 
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Well said, Romeo! I think that's a really excellent point and can very well be yet another variable that is contributing to a very complicated issue.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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 Post subject: Not Much Left
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Wow Romeo, what a profound post. You really seem to have the ability to look deep inside yourself and state exactly how it is.

I enjoyed everyone's posts and it left me with really nothing more to add. But just to agree that Suboxone does hinder my motivation. Knowing that, now I have to get off my lazy ass and do something about it. That's the difference. If you just can't stand the side effects that go along with taking Suboxone, then maybe check yourself into a rehab and work on recovery that way. Not all of them are 12 step programs.

Or just kick yourself in the butt and get out there. Once you do you will feel better. I too want to just sit and veg but that gets me nowhere. I force myself to go out into the world and do different things. Some days I do just relax at home, but not for too long or I start to feel guilty about it. Even if you don't like 12 step meetings, they are a great place for socializing. Everyone is talking about recovery so how can that be bad? Don't think about it, do it.

Okay, that's my 2¢ too.

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