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 Post subject: Lies and more lies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:08 pm 
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What i wanted to touch base on is the lie going around on a lot of forums about how opiates will not work with in days of taking subs . That is total bs because I have taken my sub dose in the am which is commonly 1//3 of a 8 mg strip and taken p 30s that afternoon and was high as a kite . Feel free to input


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 Post subject: Re: Lies and more lies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:12 am 
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Andrew, I was unaware that a lie was circulating at other forums. I have enough trouble trying to keep up with this one to venture out to others.

Could it be that what is true for you is not necessarily true for others? We have had several people on this forum tell us about a surgery where they suffered a lot of pain because they were not told to wean down their sub dosage before the surgery and the provided analgesic did not work for them. I recently learned that 20 to 30% of opiate users have a defect in their ability to metabolize opiates. Sometimes this results in faster opiate metabolism than usual. Perhaps you are affected by this defect which allows you to feel analgesic results from other opiate medication after you've already taken 2.5 to 3mg of sub.

What I'm trying to say is that there may be some other explanations why people would say that other opiates don't work for them in days where they take sub.

Here's another possibility. I would contend that a dose of 2.5 to 3 mg does not cover all of the opiate receptors in the brain and therefore some might be available to be activated by other opiates. Thus the high you could get from roxy. For example, I take a dose of the zubsolv equivalent of 2mg of sub every day, but I can get some relief of my migraines from an extended release synthetic opiate called Nucynta ER. The Nucynta ER doesn't make me high, but helps with pain that buprenorphine (active ingredient in sub) doesn't take care of. Does that make sense? Btw, welcome to the forum.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Lies and more lies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:44 pm 
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There was an older member a few years ago who said that he felt one Vicodin the day after stopping 16 mg's so you're not alone with your opinion. Just remember everyone reacts differently. I wouldn't go so far as calling it a lie though. Just someone's experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Lies and more lies
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:24 am 
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Yes. I've taken 4mg Sub in the AM, and taken heroin at 6pm and got some effect. Slightly blunted effect, but effect nonetheless. That was while I was on other medication that sped up my metabolism of Suboxone though.


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 Post subject: Re: Lies and more lies
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:27 pm 
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It all comes down to competition at the mu opioid receptor-- which is based on the concentration of each competing drug and the binding 'affinity' of each drug. 'Affinity' is the technical word for 'tightness' or 'fit'. A drug with high affinity binds more tightly to a receptor than a drug with low affinity.

'Affinity' is also related to 'potency'--- but they are not the same thing. Buprenorphine and fentanyl both bind to mu receptors with high affinity. But fentanyl is more potent because of the ceiling effect of buprenorphine. Likewise, an antagonist may have very high affinity for a receptor, but zero 'potency'.

In my last blog post at http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com I described the use of oxycodone, combined with buprenorphine, to treat post-op pain. Most of my patients who have taken 30 mg of oxycodone describe pain relief, without feeling 'as high as a kite'. Most people get at most a muted response to oxycodone or other agonists when they are on buprenorphine. But as other posts have suggested, your liver might metabolize buprenorphine more quickly than normal... or you might metabolize oxycodone more slowly than normal.

Since you're telling me to 'feel free to input'....I suggest that you end the experiments, and focus on taking buprenorpine as directed and avoiding other opioids. ANY experimentation with buprenorphine/Suboxone only gives legitimate treatment a black eye.


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 Post subject: Re: Lies and more lies
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:35 am 
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Good point, Dr. Junig!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Lies and more lies
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:50 pm 
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I could never feel any euphoria while on suboxone. There were several failed attempts at starting sub maint, where I went back to heroin or oxy and it was never the same. Always a let down. The very last time I used heroin, was about two weeks into my 6 year suboxone journey. It was the only time I ever used while on suboxone, and it sucked so bad. I did white heroin from NYC (I'm from Cali and was used to brown tar) and my eyes felt heavy like I needed to close them, but absolutely no euphoria, no body warmth/ rush.. nothing like that. Just felt like I needed to close my eyes. I was a little scared to be honest because it wasn't like a nod. I was completely coherent and fully aware of everything. I imagine that's how people OD. I didn't like it at all and never used heroin again.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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