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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:52 pm 
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Hi, I'd like to share my story here and maybe get some input from suboxdoc on what happened with me and a suboxone doctor. This may be lengthy so bear with me please.

I've been on Suboxone for 6 years, I started out with a very good local doctor who ended up retiring after I'd been on it about 1 year, and I was able to transfer to another doctor 90 miles away through the same Suboxone program. I'd been seeing this doctor for almost 5 years, was always compliant with the program, they called me a "model patient". A new doctor came to my hometown a couple years ago, and they encouraged me to switch to him so I wouldn't have to travel 90 miles. My husband had actually started seeing this local doctor for Subutex for pain management after a stint on Percocet. He is a psychiatrist who advertises himself as a "pain management specialist".

I decided to make the switch this summer because my upcoming appt. with my doctor 90 miles away, would have been difficult for me to keep due to a work conference, so figured it would be a good time to make the switch they had been encouraging me to do anyways. I scheduled and went to my initial appt., paid in advance, told them my husband was also a patient, and that I'd been on Suboxone 6 years. I told them the reason why I had initially got on Suboxone for addiction 6 years prior was because I am a nurse and had been diverting medication from my prior employer at a hospital but I've been clean since being on Sub. I told him I had just had a prescription called in for a 4 week supply 2 weeks prior from the old doctor but I was only able to pay for 2 weeks worth at a time since my insurance had stopped covering it without a prior authorization. So, I told him I still had 2 weeks worth at the pharmacy and he wrote me a script that day for a 30 day supply with 2 refills, and told me I only needed to come back every 3 mo. since I was already well established on Suboxone. My appointment was all in all less than 20 min. This is where it gets complicated- to make a long story short, I filled 2 weeks worth from the new prescription from the new doctor, and then the following week I was at the pharmacy with my mom and she offered to pay for the remaining of my prescription from the old doctor. I did end up with an extra 2 weeks worth of meds as a result. I called my old doctor prior to and after the appointment to let them know that I was switching/had switched to the new doctor and cancelled my upcoming appt. I thanked them for everything and they wished me luck.

A month later I got a call from the new doc that both me and my husband need to be there within an hour for a pill count. We were both at work and he couldn't get away right away so I went first. I handed over my meds to the doc's wife/clinical director and was told to wait in the waiting room. I heard her counting the pills, and then got called back to the docs office where he proceeded to tell me he was turning me into the police and child protective services for doctor shopping. I was shocked and in disbelief, I asked why...he said because I filled a prescription from my old doctor after I saw him. He had the pharmacy database records. I tried explaining that was the remaining quantity I had sitting at the pharmacy before I saw him and that I had even told him about it. Both him and his wife called me a "f***ing liar", cursed at me for jeopardizing his DEA license, and told me to "get out" of his office in a very intimidating manner. I begged him to call my old doctor and to please reconsider this, and they informed me they had already spoke to my old clinic and were told that I never terminated my treatment there (not true, I had I have since gotten documentation to support this fact and the doctor has told me she has no idea who would have given them that incorrect information). His wife then picked up the phone and threatened to call the police on me for not leaving. They refused to give me my meds back. I was hysterical and immediately called my husband after leaving and needless to say, he did not go in for his "pill count" after what had just happened with me. I tried to call my old doctor right away but it was a Friday afternoon, and she was already gone for the day. Fortunately I had that extra 2 weeks worth that I had at home, so I didn't go into w/d. I have a very demanding job, children, and a dying parent to take care of. How can a doctor just abruptly cut a patient off their meds like that?

I called my old subox doc the following week, and spoke with her nurse, who had already talked to the new doctor's wife who tried to tell them not to take me back as a patient. She then proceeded to fax them a list of all the patients that had "failed" their program. My old doctor knew I was NOT doctor shopping and immediately agreed to take me back as a patient and the doctor herself called me to apologize for even referring me to this guy. I'm going to include a timeline of events now of what has taken place since.

-Both me and my husband received generic "Tresspass notifications" in the mail from this doctor the following week that we were banned from their property for a period of 10 years for "Felony acquisition of prescription medication" and failed their program for opiate addiction.

-I got a call from Child Protective Services and a card on my door. I tried calling them back several times but haven't heard back from them since so never did speak with them. It's been 3 months.

-The following week I got a complaint in the mail from the board of nursing that had been filed by this doctor and his wife/"clinical director". The complaint stated I came in there to establish care for "opiate addiction" asking for a refill and stating I terminated my treatment with the old doctor, which I did not. The complaint further stated that I had been fired from my old employer for stealing pain medication from patients (information I had disclosed to this new doctor because I wanted to be honest about my history) and that I was suspected of stealing medication from my current employer for my own personal use or selling it (totally false allegation and this doctor had NO reason to suspect this!!). He further recommended that my license be revoked indefinitely for a second offense (2nd offense of what?)
***Let me mention, that I still work as a nurse but I do an office job now and rarely have access to/administer medications unless it is an emergency and they are short handed on the floor. Also, should be noted that the board of nursing was aware of my prior trouble with my old employer and I had successfully completed their monitoring program in lieu of disciplinary action 6 years prior. In addition I was not "fired" from my past employer but I resigned because of my addiction problems.
The complaint also further stated that my husband had "failed" their program too (HIIPA violation?) and attached to the complaint were the trespass notifications they sent, alleging that both of us committed "Felony acquisition of prescription medication". More false allegations as neither me or my husband did any such thing and have never been contacted by law enforcement, DEA, etc., let alone charged with any such crime.

-Fast forward 2 months later. The complaint has been dismissed and I have been cleared of any wrong doing with the board of nursing. I turned in a letter from my current employer stating I have NEVER been suspected of medication diversion in the 5 years I've worked there. This was very difficult and embarrassing to go to my boss and ask for a letter stating that I am not stealing narcotics. He was shocked and looked at me like I was crazy, but both him and the administrator completely have my back 100%. In addition, I had supporting documentation from my old/current sub doctor stating that I have always been a "model patient", compliant, clean UA's, never suspected of diverting, using, and that I was NOT doctor shopping and this was all a huge misunderstanding.

-About a month ago, I was approached by another nurse at my work who told me she is a patient of this local doctor and that his wife told her about another nurse at our workplace (me) that was losing her license, whom they had turned into the board of nursing and police because me and my husband were "stockpiling subutex and selling it". #1 this is a HIIPA violation and #2 made up false allegations from this doctor and his wife once again.

-I also want to add that this doctor's wife put my diagnosis down as "Pain with other psychological factors" at my initial visit. She put this on my receipt before I even saw the doctor and said she was putting that as my diagnoses because "the government gets nosy and doesn't need to know my personal business'. This was also my husband's diagnosis. But then on the complaint and trespass notifications it says we were seeing him for "opiate addiction" (convenient changing of the diagnosis). I have never been diagnosed with a pain problem prior to this and the doctor hadn't even evaluated me before his wife decided this was my new diagnosis (she does not have the credentials to even make a diagnosis). I suspect they may be doing this to get around the DATA waiver # of patients they can treat for Suboxone treatment for addiction.

Suboxdoc- It seems me and my husband have been harassed with false allegations sent to the state by this doctor. He filed a false complaint against me with the board of nursing and so far, all of his allegations against us have been discredited. I've been advised by several to contact an attorney. Was it even legal for this guy to take my pills and not give them back? Wouldn't that put him in illegal possession of someone else's medication, even though he prescribed it. They did not dispose of it or anything in front of me. What are your thoughts on all of this and possible legal recourse I may have here?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:02 pm 
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I'd also like to add to the above, that I looked up reviews from this doctor online and it seems he has a history of bullying his patients and kicking people off the program for no good reason. He administered a saliva test to a pregnant girl and claimed the test came back clean for Subutex. She said she begged him to re-test and that she didn't think he even administered the test correctly. They abruptly cut her off her meds at 8 months pregnant and she went into horrible w/d for a week before finding another doctor. It seems this guy needs to be stopped and his is abusing his power as an MD. He is destroying the suboxone program and peoples lives.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:41 pm 
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Hey KM,
Let me e the first to say how outraged I am right now.
Drs are people too. They can be jerks like everyone else. And no disrespect to Dr junig (or my dad with that matter), but you seeming were in a catch with misunderstandings, bad timing, and worst off a small clinic whos rep is following him to his new town...wow.

In sorry, so sorry to hear of this. Just shows that there is NO real Standard of care in this type on medicine. It sure seems that way.
My dr is good, and though stricked, isnt anything like what you went though.
However, maybe, just Maybe he has seen so much of this bad behavior that he flipped out. Thing is he has gunned for you with the cops, and child protection and your job...

On the bright side your good old dr is in your corner. .thank God...

Quite a tale. Scary..
I have seen this kind of thing before. So..the best thing we all can do is not mistep. I hope things are goi g ok for you these days. .

Wow....


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:52 pm 
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KS,
WOW!
I am truly glad that you decided to post this here. I also think there MUST be other platforms on which to present your grievance.

You must have lost countless hours of sleep. This MD not only messed with your drug program but more seriously, the welfare of your children, your marriage, your career and least of all, your professional reputation. I support your decision to investigate your legal options with fervor.

I can only partially relate in that I too was the victim of complete misinterpretation. I was referred to a pain specialist by my OBGYN who was treating my severe endometriosis with Percocet therapy. The "pain specialist" made me sign a contract stating I would not seek treatment by another prescribing pain management specialist. I fully disclosed my medical and surgical history and my current treatment regime with my referring physician.

Jump ahead 2 months into treatment and I had an old script filled after having to cxl an appointment with the specialist. I'll jump ahead to mention that I provided documentation that the reason I had cxl'd was because my child was recovering from surgery. I also had my OBGYN supporting my case.

Apparently, the pharmacist needed a DEA code and phoned the wrong Dr. Need I say more? I broke that contract by obtaining pain medication from another source. I had NO idea that this included the referring MD who was still treating me for the same dx. as the new MD.

I can/will share more if you'd like but suffice it to say that this is serious business. I was not afraid of any consequences except I was in fear of my nursing license. The office receptionist who "called me out" stated that they COULD report it to the Board, if they decide to do so.
I was a mess.

I'm glad you are perusing this. I'm also grateful that you invited me to read about your experience and would value my opinion. We have definitely become sympathetic friends and confidants. Thank you KS.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:18 am 
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Wow, glad you didn't get into any legal trouble or anything with your situation and the Percocet script...they've become so strict with these scripts now because there's been so much abuse..I bet if we were talking about heart medication or something, there wouldn't be any issue to even discuss.

Yes, I'm doing ok after all that but it's been very stressful to say the least...and one of the reasons why I decided to start tapering off. I honestly always knew I wasn't (shouldn't) get into any legal trouble or with my nursing license because there was never any evidence of me doing anything- as my current sub doc and counselor said, "The truth will set you free", and it did but still...a lot of hoops to jump through, time and energy spent.

So I think, since I've got my name cleared now, I will call a lawyer this week. I mean, a doctor can't just make up accusations against a patient and send them off to an official agency with the state to try and destroy someone and their career, right? Not to mention the privacy violations.. My counselor told me she wouldn't have believed all this, had she not seen everything in black and white.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:59 pm 
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So sorry you had to go through this, BUT as a seasoned Paralegal. What you did is illegal. So Sorry to say.
I Hope everything works out! Good Luck!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:24 pm 
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A seasoned what???? Care to expand on just what this person did that was against the law? And just what law would that be? This is a several month old post but your two sentences were just added. Please enlighten us. Hope I didn't just feed a troll.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:03 am 
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Here is my take....she should never have filled the "old doc's" 2 week script because for all intents & purposes she was no longer his patient at the "time" the script was filled.

It was probably an innocent mistake and the new doctor was a jerk but once she signed the new contract she should only fill suboxone written by the new doctor.

Hopefully TrayCee comes back to explain why but i am pretty sure that's the answer. As a nurse i have cautioned people about this very thing. Not just narcotics but any meds the person was on.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:29 pm 
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Well that I totally agree with. No argument with any of it. But just because someone does something they "should not" do does not make that act illegal. I'm sure any paralegal well understands that or at least should - double for a "seasoned" paralegal and triple for a super duper paralegal. :) But it sounds very, very much like a valid and legit script. CIII scripts are valid for six months from date of signing That even includes any refills that may have remained. Nothing ileagle about that. You can refill a valid script 5 months and 29 days after going to a new doc. Again not saying you should but you can under the law. Now perhaps she meant illegal in the eyes of the new doc and his contract but again legal professionals are usually very precise with these terms. That's why I asked.

I mostly just didn't want Ksit to think she/he broke any laws or committed any crimes - nor any other readers to get that opinion. Most patients would not think about all of this. It's all about intent. Seems pretty clear Ksit didn't intend to do anything wrong. On the other hand I'd bet the doc intended to be a dick. :)

Certainly an eye opener though. We really need to dot all I's and cross al T's with anything we do. Right or wrong it the docs game so he gets to make the rules. Once again chalk angling these bad docs is the only way i know to get them to stop. Legal action would be great but expensive unless a sympathetic attorney will take the case. Medical board complaints are free and often nessisary. It may not do a whole lot for the complainer but iften helps the next guy as the doc won't want to go through that again.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:41 pm 
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Donh


If it was't suboxone I bet the doctor would have just given her a warning. Along with the bad hits sub takes, we users shouldn't be terminated without the benefit of being asked why we did something.

I hope TrayCee comes back to talk to us. I bet she has a ton of information. Don't be fooled, a paralegal is really the one that knows the law. I have a good friend who works in the City and the story's about some of the attorneys are crazy LOL


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:22 am 
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donh wrote:
Seems pretty clear Ksit didn't intend to do anything wrong. On the other hand I'd bet the doc intended to be a dick. :)


LOL...chuckle of the day!

I don't know whether what she did was illegal or not. To me that's not the point at all. The point is that this doctor went over and above attempting to ruin this lady's life. Trumping up false charges is not okay. Going over the speed limit isn't legal either, but I don't expect to have Child Protective services called on me for getting a ticket while my child was in the vehicle with me. Then having them call my employer to tell them that I should be fired because I was going to lose my drivers license due to reckless driving and evading arrest when in actuality I only had a simple speeding ticket.

You know what else I noticed? The original OP was a victim of false charges, and had her reputation slandered to anyone who mattered in her life. When she came here she NEVER mentioned the doctors name who caused all this trouble for her. Sounds to me like SHE is the one with class and respect. Not the dick doctor as Donh so eloquently put it. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:30 am 
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Very well put donh and q :)

Also its a pretty grey area on her picking up her meds. The only reason there were 2 weeks left in the pharmacy is because she only got two weeks at a time due to no insurance.... which is exactly what I do. Her script could've all been picked up when it was first written she just didn't have the money. Now that could still be illegal maybe but it would've been the same if she'd picked up the whole amount when it was written. I'm not sure I'm making sense but in my head it does lol hard to explain. Regardless I think this Dr went way too far and I wish I knew his office number, I would prank call him every day for doing that!! :)

I hope ur doing well now and please let us know if u do see an attorney, I'd love to hear the outcome.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:02 pm 
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lol, tiki I would say the same thing - don't be fooled. I'm betting the person that posted that is not a paralegal in the first place. I have a great BS detector and it totally went off. I'm less sure the person is a troll but a true legal mind would not say the things and use the words this person did. Seasoned paralegal. What even us that? No leagally person I know talks like that - much less on their first post here.

Good comments about could have picked up the full script at once! Further shows nothing u lawfull went on.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:45 pm 
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I guess it's because I've had my fair share of bad doctors (as opposed to the lucky people on here who say 'but I want to be honest with my doctor') but I never would have shared anything about my active addiction or work history who was /just/ a sub doctor.

They seem like they were really ugly people who have no compassion and immediately label you based on history. The only thing I have to say OTOH is that past history is the best indicator of future behavior (before you jump on me) but with addicts, if you follow that mantra, you'll never trust them - or plenty of types of people who are reformed, etc.

FTR my sub doctor /is/ one of my therapists, so I do tell /him/ my history and everything but I don't have any.. Administrative? Issues in my past aside from a bulllshit arrest that I may post in this forum just for people who still associate with the wrong groups of people and think that because they're not involved (I wasn't even on the same block when he picked up, not to my knowledge and I got arrested/charged) they're safe, legally.

-Oh, and a pill count?! If you read this far and you've heard of a pill count, please share because I find that ridiculous (though not unbelievable because TOS agreements with doctors can cover pretty much anything)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:24 am 
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I agree that the doctor and wife team have a twisted sense of justice, that's for sure. I wonder if they're sadistic in other areas too.

There are doctors who call you in for pill counts. In fact, my doctor's office asked me for a pill count once. Unfortunately I didn't get the message until late in the day and I was leaving town by air the next morning at 7am or so. So I emailed them my itinerary, took time-stamped photos of my meds and sent them to my doctor's cell phone. That was enough for them. I'm a very compliant patient who has never given them any reason to doubt me. Some doctors are strict enough that I would have had to miss my flight to physically come into the office.

I had heard of other doctors asking for pill counts, but that's the first time I ever experienced it.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:23 am 
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I have to change sub doc's because the one I have been seeing is unfortunately not able to see patients right now and I don't know when he will be back. The covering doc situation isn't working for me. She is only available one day a week so it's now more a clinic setting then a private practice. For example, I had a 9:30 am appt a and was finally seen at 2:45 pm.

So I made an appt with a new doc and was told over the phone that there are pill counts and random urine tests. They will call you and you have 24 hours to get to the office. If you don't come you are terminated as a patient. That could be a real issue for me as I work ft and have custody of my toddler grandson.

I spoke to my therapist and he gave me a name of a doc & told me to use his name. The other doc called me last nite and I have an appt for September. I will have better care and it's less money! My therapist is very good to me. Now I don't have to stress over getting to a doc within 24 hours. Crazy how each sub doc can make their own rules!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:47 pm 
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Awesome news tiki finding u a new Dr without any horrible hassle that u had to go through. I know what u mean about having to wait so long to see a Dr cause that's exactly how I have to do every month. It's exhausting. My Dr is only there once a week and I usually sit and wait hrs and hrs for a five minute conversation and I'm out the door.

I'd absolutely love to find a Dr that I could visit in the office and leave with a script every time. Sometimes when I see him, it's not time to get my meds and I have to do it after my meeting and it takes hrs to get called in after my meeting is over. I've been doing this for yrs now. It can really take a toll on ya, but I try my hardest to just stay thankful that I'm not out there using. Anything is better than that.

Just wanted to say awesome news on getting into another Dr without the bs a lot of ppl have to go through. I'm sure ur breathing a huge sigh of relief.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:47 pm 
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Tiki, I'm so glad that you found a better situation starting in September! That is good news!

What you say is true. Each doctor comes up with their own protocol and, when pressed, they all blame their protocols on the DEA!! Lol!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:03 pm 
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JennJenn

I really feel for you after what I just experienced! I almost let the doc have it when she smirked and said "I hope you didn't wait long". She knew damn well I had a 9:30 appt.

Clearly she looks down on the patients and that makes me sick to my stomach. She knows we can't leave or say anything because we need the meds. After she saw me she walked out to have a smoke with 8 or 9 people still waiting. Plus she won't be back until September 8.

I am very grateful that I was accepted into this new doctors care. It is only because of my therapist that I got in. This new doc works at the local rehab and has been a sub doc since it came out. He has a small private practice and that's where I will be seen.

My sons doctor starts at 6 am but he schedules everyone for 8am so they all sit and wait for hours. My son gets up early so he is there before the doc and is seen right away.

I am appalled at what I have heard while looking for a new doc.

You are so kind and have a positive attitude Jenn. It's always nice when you post to me.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:05 pm 
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Amy

It really is good news and I have been in a really good mood the past few days.

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