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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:09 pm 
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[b]I have been on sub for three years. I am at a STUCK factor. My dosage is 16mgs. I got stuck at 8. I am leaving for Rapid Detox in a week. This is costing me $10,000.00. I feel that my Psychiatrist was unethical, and I was lied to over and over again to keep using his medication. I want my life back. Bad enough to take extreme measures to get off of this horrible drug. If anyone has any advice on Rapid Detox, please reply. I am new to this forum and I don't have much time before I leave. I also welcome any questions someone might have for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:37 pm 
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WOW! I wish you success. I haven't heard anything good about rapid detox but I haven't researched it much either. I hope you have a good recovery plan in place for afterwards. Good luck!

Cherie


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:49 pm 
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My plan is to do everything they tell me to do. I will be on an opiate blocker for three months. I am not totally sure what to expect either, but they are very successful with pulling at least 80% of the opiate out of your system. Methadone patients have a much tougher time after detox. Methadone is water soluble and gets into every cell in your body, including your bones. Being that Sub comes right from India and the poppy plant, I feel very optimistic. I have two weeks down time for recovery. I will be leaving posts after my treatment to let people know how I am doing.
Thanks for your support, Shellice


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:01 am 
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I think you should seriously investigate PAWS because even if they pull the opiate out of your system you are going to go through PAWS anyways. Your brain is going to take a while to recover and while it does that, you have depression, mood swings, etc. etc. etc. I am interested to see how you feel when you get back so please post even if you don't feel well. It would be good for people to hear about it in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Best of luck....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:11 am 
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Hi Shellice
I do NOT have any experience with the Rapid - Detox that you are about to enter.... I did go through a 8 day detox for Alcohol last June and that went well.... I know we are talking two totally different things here just thought I would throw that out there? It sounds like your head is in the right place and you are committed to this So I wish you WELL!!!! I hope you keep in touch with the Forum because many people can benefit from your experience. I will look forward to your posting when you feel up to it. Until then I wish you the BEST and please know that we are ALL pulling for you to have a quick Recovery.... Take Care!

God Bless
TW


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:04 am 
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My applause to TWINPLY!! Good for you! Alcohol is a very tough withdrawal. I am definitely going to give updates.
This has been a hard decision, but I did make it because I feel so weighed down from Sub. I can barely stay awake at night and watch a movie with my family. It is a great medication if you want to be a lifer. I just want my life back.
Jackcrack: I know all about Post Acute Withdrawal. Although it is NOT ethical, and one may think you are trading in one substance for another, Adderall (for ADD) works well. Most PAWS come from low blood pressure. There are also muscle pain, and trouble sleeping. The ADD medication works great for the nagging withdrawal symptoms. I will get help with the sleep and pain issues (without opiates) from the Rapid Detox Center. The ADD meds are going to be given to me by a friend that kicked Sub cold turkey. It took her 6 weeks to feel somewhat normal again but was struggling with PAWS. She had PAWS for close to a year. She called many places about Sub withdrawal, and she was told to get on a milder opiate for about a year and then ween off of that. She did this. Then I explained to her the dynamics of uppers VS. downers. That an amphetamine would help her kick that 2 vicodin a day habit. She was cautious. She had never been an upper girl. But she got our Dr. (who is an absolute idiot, not to mention a liar) to prescribe her ADD meds. And it worked! She has been opiate free for three months now. She had been an addict and on replacement for 15 years. She only had to take the ADD meds for 3 weeks.
The place that I am going to is very aware of illicit drugs. I do not plan on trading in one addiction for another. I am just going to take it day by day.
And I will be posting as often as I can to let everyone know how this works out. I would love to help anyone through this with my experience.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:28 am 
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First off I wish you the very best and believe this can work for you if you are healthy and determined... and have a strong support system waiting for you.

That being said, I am concerned and a little skeptical based on everything I've read from others who have tried this "short cut" strategy. You seem like an intelligent person and have most likely thoroughly researched this but you can never get to much information. Have you had direct contact with at least 3 others who have tried this... separate from those the center proped up as successful outcomes?

Last year I was very close to trying this and was discouraged with all the negativity I found online. Not from here but from other addiction forums. Apparently this procedure works best for those coming off the street with a relatively short period of using quick acting opiates like heroin, oxys...etc. Hopefully they told you this. If you search thoroughly you will find these forums and the threads. I don't think admin likes posting those sites here.

This may shorten the acutes but as you've already been told... the paws will still have to be dealt with.

For me the large fee wasn't the issue as much as the cost effectiveness. I just couldn't justify paying so much money for an uncertain outcome.... especially with all the bad stories I found. I think a lot of those who were negative were misled and expected too much... so if you are going into this with reasonable expectations, then perhaps you won't be disappointed.

If you've already paid and are locked in... there may be no good thing to come from looking for something you might not want to know. However, if you aren't financially committed... continue your research.

Sorry if I sound negative but felt you needed at least a little bit of feedback from the other side. PM me if you want some references regarding rapid detox.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:42 pm 
Sugarcain....I wish you the best as well. We're all in the fight with you. Some, like you, want their life back.....the life they had before opiate addiciton entered the picture. Others, having never known an adult life without their addiction, are looking for a new quality of life....a life without the use of mood or mind altering drugs. How to get there remains the big question. I personally do not know much about the Rapid Detox method you are lined up for. I do understand, at least in basic principle, how the method is believed to work. I've read several times of people being disappointed after undergoing the procedure because they ended up relapsing to their former DOC not long afterwards. I think I've read one account of a person who was pleased with the results and it had been a few years and they were still "clean."
My feelings on it are probably overly simplistic, but my biggest concern is this: Say, the procedure itself is a success and all the opiate is washed from your body. Great! You've avoided all the miserable acute withdrawal symptoms. But what about the coming weeks, months and years? This procedure will not cure your addiction. It won't do anything for all the psychological aspects of it. I understand (sort of anyway) your theory about Adderall helping with PAWS. I think it could help with the lethargy and low motivation that are hallmarks of PAWS, but I just can't see how it could possibly wipe out all of it or help with cravings. I don't know....it just sounds too good to be true. Addiction is such a complex disease. If this were the answer, I've got to think there would be more folks on that bandwagon.
Something else bothers me: the fact that you've been unable to decrease your Suboxone dose. Why do think that is? It shouldn't be physical w/d symptoms because they usually don't come on much at all until you get under 4mg/day or so. Which leads me to wonder if it's the psychological part that's tripping you up on tapering. If that's the case, I worry for you after your rapid detox as those psychological symptoms are not likely to go away. I hope you have a fairly intensive plan in place to prevent relapse after you get home. I think you mentioned an opiate blocker for a few months. But what about after that? I would only imagine that you'll need support meetings and individual therapy for the long term at the very least.
I totally understand your desperation in wanting to be free. It's terrible that you were misled about Suboxone and I'm sorry you don't feel it has worked for you. It has been a Godsend for me and many others, but in and of itself it certainly is no cure for addiction. I hope you find what works for you and wish you nothing but success with your detox procedure. I, along with everyone else here, would so appreciate if you follow through with your plan to update us on how it goes....good, bad or indifferent. We're all here to help each other in any way we can. So please keep posting.
Again...all the best!


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 Post subject: One more thing...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:08 pm 
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Here are a few links to non-forum references:


Anesthesia-Assisted vs Buprenorphine- or Clonidine-Assisted Heroin Detoxification and Naltrexone Induction

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/294/8/903

http://journals.lww.com/anesthesiology/ ... al.15.aspx

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/40/19/23.3.full

http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/repri ... 20514485f1

http://www.choosehelp.com/detox/problem ... iate-detox

http://hubpages.com/hub/rapid-opiate-detox-risks

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10 ... 0252801639

http://www.heroinhelper.com/sick/detox_ ... rt_3.shtml

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/315/7109/682

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/conten ... 9v23n01_06


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Just wanted you to know that I clicked on a few of the links and read through them. The one's in lamens terms anyway :D .
One of the links mentioned 4-48 hours of anesthesia. Now that is insane. Rapid Detox should take no longer than 60-90 minutes. I was never told that I would be completely free of the opiates. They say that 80% can be pulled from the pain receptors. I will have some mild withdrawal symptoms, and I was in no way lead to believe that I would go home in two days feeling like a million bucks. There is also a ton of colon cleansing done before this treatment because of all of the toxins that build up in the intestinal wall. I have done my research. I have called many clinics. Rehabs are being bombarded with Suboxone users who are in extreme withdrawal. 1/3 of Rapid Detox patients are going through it for Sub.
Being that Suboxone is relatively new on the market (since 2002), the Rapid detox centers have been in the States for just a few years longer.
The case studies that I read in a few of the links were done in 2002-2003. Since then, they have really come a long way.
I do know three people who have had this procedure done. They were all IV drug users. One stayed clean. The other relapsed and had Rapid Detox done a second time, and the other is still using to this day.
I have never been an IV drug user. Never addicted to the needle. Guess I am lucky in that sense. My addiction was just vicodin. And now I am on something 20-30 times stronger than morphine. It makes no sense for these Dr.'s to put their patients on such a strong replacement therapy for such a mild opiate.
As far as my "stuck" factor. Well. That is a long story. I have been on a roller coaster ride with this med. my Dr. would up my dose if my weening was not working as I had hoped. I was once down to 1mg. But I have now been on such a high dose for so long that weening is much harder than at first. In rehab, they have found that the milligram does not even matter because of the mean life span of this med. You can be on a pebble or 24mgs and still have 6 weeks of withdrawal. I do not have that long being that I work full time, have a mortgage and a teenage daughter to care for.
I do have a wonderful support system here at home. My family, friends, and a sponsor lined up.
I understand people being skeptical. But I also know all of the lies that were told to me about Suboxone to begin with. Who do I trust? Well, I guess I will find out in a week.
And thanks again to everyone who has posted something. I appreciate all of the support from everyone.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:37 pm 
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Well, I don't know if you will take this post as an "upper" or a "downer" but I will say that I jumped off at 12mg and I still only missed 1/2 day of work. I won't say I was SUPER functional the first 2 weeks, but I still got my work done for the most part. The issue for me wasn't the physical withdrawals (although I did get some help with clonidine, a little ativan, trazadone, restless leg medicine, and a couple other non-addictive drugs for only a week or two for the most part). It was the PAWS that was the hardest part. I can see how adderol would help with that to a certain extent but not on any permanent basis because I am pretty sure that might still prevent the brain from "healing" or learning to develop its own endorphins so you aren't miserable and moody.

Bottom line, based on my PERSONAL experience, and we are all different, I would never pay $10,000 to avoid the withdrawal because the withdrawal just wasn't that bad. Not the physical part of it. It just isn't worth the money.

Just my take. But again, you have researched it and I support you in your recovery entirely and really hope this works for you and is successful.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:27 pm 
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I looked into rapid detox before I went on Suboxone. I came away from my research feeling like the whole Rapid Detox Industry is kinda shady, not really well regulated or researched, and that it preys on desperate people to make money. The detox centers make unsupported claims about their success rates while downplaying the very real risks associated with this kind of treatment.

I'm curious about what lies were told to you about Suboxone, and also why it is harder for you to lower your dose now? Is it because you get withdrawal symptoms? Do you worry that you will get the same withdrawal symptoms after the rapid detox?

Your plan to take your friend's adderall also sends up red flags, as does the fact that you seem to blame your doctor for your predicament. I don't know. There's just something about your story that seems a little off to me. Still, I hope things work out for you. I hope you have used your time on Suboxone to figure out your triggers and that you've learned to deal with those triggers in a healthy way. I hope you've built a strong recovery, because you're going to need it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:08 pm 
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This is my story. I did not think it would seem shady. But here are the facts:
I was in a car accident. Was in physical therapy for 4 months. My Dr. just cut me off of my meds. 7.5 vicodin every 4 hours. No ween. Just cut me off. This was in 2002. I was feeling horrible from the withdrawal. I started buying from the streets. $5 a pill. I was at 10 a day in the end. My tolerance had gone up. So you can imagine how much money I was spending.
I found myself in a hole and only knew of one place that could help. Being that an addicts worst fear is withdrawal, I didn't want to kick it the hard way.
I went into a Methadone clinic. I was on it for quite a while. Almost 3 years. Then, my mother passed away. She was 57. She was going to a pain management clinic for Fibromyalgia and was on 150mgs of Methadone a day to manage her pain. Her liver was failing without her knowledge and the drugs stored up and she accidentally overdosed.
I was taking home monthlies and weening off of Methadone. I was at 18mgs and doing fine. But after what happened to my mother, I did not want anything to do with that drug anymore.
A friend of mine (the same friend mentioned in earlier posts) told me about a new medication that she was put on. I had never heard of it before. I made the appointment with her Psychiatrist hoping there was a way to help with getting off of Methadone.
Our Psychiatrist was very anti methadone. He told me that he wanted me down to 15mgs. This was not a problem. I was at 18 and would be at 15 in another week or so. He then wrote a script for 40mg slow release Oxycontin. He told me to chew one every four hours to cut through the Methadone. Weird right? I was to do this for ten days then go back to his office to get on Suboxone. I was also told I had to be in FULL withdrawal before starting this medication because the blocker could put me into instant withdrawal. I believed everything he told me. It sounded too good to be true. Just like you feel about Rapid Detox. He told me that he recommended I stay on it for at least 3 years to give my pain receptors time to heal. That there was a blocker in it that allowed this to happen. He told me that it was easy to ween off of with little to no withdrawal. I thought I hit the jackpot!
Now I realize that the blocker is only for IV drug use. That the Suboxone has been saturating my pain receptors for almost 3 years now. That I could have taken it on the 18mgs of methadone, skipping the oxi's, and been fine. Why he chose to do it that way, I will never know.
My friend kicked it cold turkey when she lost her insurance after two years of using it. She was at 8mgs when she had to quit. Her husband was on .5. I spoke with her every day. Went to see her. I watched her suffer for over a month and a half. She couldn't even brush her own hair or take a shower. It was awful. It scared the shit out of me. And her husband, who stopped at a much smaller dose, was just as bad off.
This is why I do not trust my Dr. This is why I am very skeptical of this medication. It has been called "The Psychiatrists office Methadone".
YES. I blame my Dr. for my predicament. He lied to me and was unethical when putting me on this medication.
I am not sure who to trust. All I know is that the only people who have been totally honest with me are the people that I will be going to see for my Rapid Detox. They never sugar coated anything. They have prepared me for my PAWS. I trust them. And trust is something I have not felt for a very long time.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:39 pm 
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The 'physician view' of rapid opiate detox, aka the Waismann method, is that it is a scam. When I first left treatment in 2001 I was tempted to set up such a practice, as it pays very well (10 K for one day-- not bad), and as a board-certified anesthesiologist it was the natural choice. After reading about it and talking to other docs, I couldn't do it; I like to make a buck, but one has to look in the mirror each day.

The things that turned me off, beyond the fact that the practice is very overpriced and takes advantage of the desperation in people, is that the studies I reviewed showed little overall benefit in symptom reduction. I also had my own experiences to draw from; I had injected naloxone on one occasion by accident, and on two occasions I took naltrexone to 'cure myself' of addiction (with a small amount of sedatives to reduce the discomfort). The immedate response to the naltrexone-- i.e. the first day-- was not all that bad. I was sick as sh... , but at some point you can't get any sicker. But in both cases, the depression that lingered for days and weeks was the horrible part. That was consistent with the case reports of suicides, or reports of people digging the naltrexone out of the tissue of their arms or abdomens on their own, so that they could use.

A couple things to clarify.... Rapid opiate detox does not 'cleanse' anything, and does not 'remove agonist from receptors'. My PhD in neurochem was in studying receptor binding of transmitters-- just want to get my credentials out there-- and the process is not at all similar to what was described earlier in this thread. For any given receptor/ligand combination that has reversible binding kinetics (as opposed to irreversible binding), there are two constants that are used to describe what is happening: the association constant and the disassociation constant. They describe rates of binding too, and releasing from, the receptor, respectively. Buprenorphine is NOT a new medication; pick up any copy of Goodman and Gilman (the pharmacologist's Bible) and you can read about the kinetics of buprenorphine back in 1988 (the date of the copy on the bookshelf next to me right now). Buprenorphine is constantly attaching and releasing from the mu receptor when in the receptor environment. When you add an antagonist like naloxone (the IV form of naltrexone), there is competition for the binding site. Nothing is 'flushed away'; the area around the receptor contains the same amount of buprenorphine REGARDLESS of whether an antagonist is present! Both naloxone and bupe can diffuse away from the area, if there is a concentration gradient that favors diffusion. The diffusion is NOT affected in any way by the presence of the other molecule; it only depends on the concentration gradient of each specific molecule that you are talking about.

The point is that rapid detox does not 'detoxify' the body, cleanse the body, etc. What happens is straightforward; the binding of bupe to the receptor is reduced, because naloxone competes over time for the binding sites. But bupe is still there, and still attaching and releasing to the receptor-- just less frequently than it was before the naloxone was administered. Bupe will diffuse away from the receptor at the same rate as it does in the case of simply stopping taking the medication.

Some comments were made about 'sub being from India' or something like that... I might be reading something wrong, but bupe is MANUFACTURED by a number of companies, and formulated into Suboxone by Reckitt Benckiser. The patent on the drug is for the FORMULATION, not on the molecule. Buprenorphine has been used for pain management for over 30 years; it is NOT a new drug.

Sometimes I assume that everyone has been through the stale old debates about 'drugs for drugs' and 'being REALLY clean'. I forget that some people are just getting here now-- or in the past year. I encourage newcomers to go back to archives of the blog, and read some of the old posts so that I don't need to get into THAT again.

I ASSUME THAT EVERYONE HERE HAS A BASIC KNOWLEGE OF THAT OLD DEBATE SO THAT IT DOESN'T CONTINUOUSLY REPLAY ON THIS FORUM. This forum is intended for intelligent discussion about buprenorphine; those who want to just sit around saying that 'sub sux' are encouraged to go elsewhere-- perhaps the web site 'subsux' would be a more appropriate venue. I ask that people review the very few rules that govern participation in the forum.

Why am I 'being like this?' Because I started this forum after tiring of the 'subsux' idiots at medhelp and other medical forums (I was in charge of the expert forum for addiction at medhelp a couple years ago). I wanted to provide a place where the people who have nothing better to do but talk nonsense were NOT invited. I tired of those who somehow got it in their heads that they were just PERFECT until Suboxone came along. They are not intellectually honest; they do not take responsibility for their own addiction, instead blaming it on the medication that saved them. I find that to be a pathetic attitude; the person cannot avoid using, and had made a total mess of his/her life... and then later acts as if some DOCTOR got them 'hooked' on something.

Sound familiar?

You were HOOKED already! And as I used to say all the time, you certainly are not WORSE off on Suboxone, than you were when you were hooked on an agonist!! Despite the garbage out there, we know without a doubt that it is easier to stop buprenorphine than to stop an agonist. I myself have seen a number of people stop buprenorphine; I have seen two people taper off agonists. The very people who are now saying that 'they can't stop Suboxone' are taking it for one reason: because they couldn't stop opiate agonists! So please, give us all a break with the 'stuck on sub' comments. You were stuck already. Sub gave you an option that you didn't have--- taking something that did not destroy your life.

I could say this more strongly, by the way. I could say, 'get real-- I remember what it was like to be stuck using opiate agonists. DON'T YOU?!'

Finally, I encourage people to read my latest blog post about character defects; those who truly consider the actions of buprenorphine realize that something is going on beyond 'replacement'. The loss of obsession has dramatic effects on character defects, far beyond anything consistent with 'drug for a drug'. Please read the article before posting the same thing over and over, as the discussion has moved beyond that point.

I hope, for the originator of this thread, that things work out OK. Most people find that 'opiate dependence' is a condition that existed BEFORE they met buprenorphine, and that returns in spades when the buprenorphine is removed. That is NOT the fault of the buprenorphine; the bupe was only protecting you from those obsessions. When your mind is filled with cravings in the next weeks and months to come, you will be able to see what, exactly, buprenorphine does. Most people learn that the 'loss of enthusiasm for life' was NOT the fault of buprenorphine, but was a manifestation of continued addictive thinking. I hope that you will recognize where your opiate dependence started, and when it became somewhat controlled. I also strongly recommend that if you intend to avoid buprenorphine, you find a new means of reducing the obsession for opiates that will come when off buprenorphine.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:20 am 
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Hey man def keep us posted. i wish you the best of luck i myself have been on sub for 3 years and some days fell stuck but im also on sub for pain mang. so its a lil different for each person. but my uncle has been threw rapid detox 2 times failed the first and passed the 2nd. he was a heavy drinker for 15 years and he has been clean for 2 years since his 2nd time in rapid detox so i think if you are ready to commit yourself to this then you can do it. you said opiod blocker any idea on what?????


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:12 am 
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sugarcain, I didn't say that your story was shady, I said the rapid detox industry was shady. I did say that something about your story didn't seem to add up, and I appreciate you taking the time to fill in some details.

When I read through your story, this is what I notice: You were on vicodin and you didn't want to go thru withdrawal, so you went on methadone. You wanted off methadone so you went on suboxone. Now you want off Suboxone so you are going to rapid detox. Do you notice a pattern?

No matter which way you slice it, you are going to have to go through some kind of adjustment period when you stop taking Suboxone. There are more than a few people here, myself included, who have successfully gotten off of Suboxone with minimal withdrawal and minimal PAWS. We all did it by slowly tapering down to a very low dose of Sub over a period of weeks or months, and by taking care of ourselves, getting lots of exercise to boost natural endorphins, and by working on our recovery. There are detailed threads about the process if you're interested.

Rapid Detox doesn't take any drugs out of your system. It doesn't change the state of your opioid receptors. Only time and not abusing opioids will do that.

I am worried that you are so trusting of the rapid detox people. They are selling you a very expensive service, one that is dangerous and is not evidence-based. I am worried that you plan to take your friend's adderall to combat PAWS. Do you know if this is a safe thing to do in conjunction with the drugs that they will be giving you at the rapid-detox?

It seems like you have gotten a lot of bad guidance along the way, from doctors and maybe also from friends. I would encourage you to read around the forum and to also check out Dr. Junig's blog. Look into the side effects that opioid addicts often experience when taking naltrexone for sure. Make sure you have all the info you need going into this process and please be careful.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:55 am 
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Well suboxdoc. I think that you should be showing me a little respect about MY decision.
And thank you for all of the info. That of which I could understand anyway :D ...

The blocker is going to be taken orally so that opiates will not work if used. I do not need the implant. They require that for their methadone patients being that it is harder to detox from.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:07 am 
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diary of a quitter,
I get what you are saying. And as far as a pattern? I just want to get clean. I have gotten bad advise. But a Dr. was the person that hooked me on meds. Went my entire life without being addicted to anything until that car accident. Since then I have asked for help from clinics and Dr's. and I feel very scammed about all of it. My first doc should have weened me. Of course I have myself to blame. I am an addict. Now I need to get my life back.
Just wanted some support. I have tried weening. Been on a high dose for a very long time. It isn't working for me. I am active. I take vitamins. And I still can't get passed that damn 8mgs. I know my body well. I lower my dose and within three days I am feeling some withdrawal symptoms. Believe me. I have tried. Everyone is different. Maybe because I went from Methadone to sub? I don't know. Maybe the length of time? Not sure.
But I will be careful. And I will not do anything that may hurt the success of this.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:26 am 
Sugarcain, I'm sure it's hard to hear negative stuff about a $10,000 treatment you've made up your mind to try. You want respect for your decision. Some of us aren't going to be able to give you that. I respect you as a person, no doubt, and I respect your desire to get better. But I can't respect your decision to do rapid detox because, especially after reading Dr. Junig's reply to you, I don't think it's a sound decision. When someone with the credentials of Dr. Junig takes the time to explain this to you, I think you've got to pause for a moment and rethink things.
I told you of my concerns in my first reply to you and after reading Dr. J's reply, I'm more convinced than ever that you're highly likely to run into problems after you get home. I almost find it laughable that you're going to be prescribed an oral 'blocker.' What the heck?! That's just going to make it way too easy to relapse.
Bottom line......There is just no shortcut through recovery. Until there is a brain transplant available, we're all "stuck." You know what, though? I don't like that word some of you have used. I don't feel "stuck." I've been on Suboxone for 9 months, have gotten myself down to 2-3mg/day without a whole lot of trouble. I do not feel stuck. I felt stuck when I couldn't get off full-agonists. I felt stuck when after weeks and weeks of work in abstinence-based recovery, I remained miserable from PAWS symptoms. No, I'm not stuck on Suboxone. I control it. It doesn't control me. I don't have obsessions or cravings for Suboxone. I'm able to go about my daily life without worrying about drugs or withdrawals. I am worthwhile to my family and others. I am anything but "stuck." I wonder if some people are being shortchanged in their rcovery because the focus is so much on the Suboxone. The drug should be just a small part of the bigger picture of your recovery. As much as I may have bitched about it, I am glad I was 'forced' to attent IOP and all those aftercare and NA meetings. I'm glad I've "done" recovery both ways, with and without Suboxone. To me, all this Rapid Detox is = skipping the first 3-4 days of a detox from opiates. That's it. Let me tell ya, those 3-4 days sucked, but it was only the beginning. There just is no shortcut Sugarcain.
Still, I do wish you the best and I do hope you will come back and post about your experiences, although I rather doubt you will. The odds of this working for you are so low. Please be careful with the Adderall. You could really end up in a mess. I hope, whether this procedure works or not, that you'll be able to see more clearly at some point that blaming Suboxone for the predicament you're in, isn't right. The truth is as Dr. Junig has said, you were addicted long before you took your first dose of Suboxone.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:57 am 
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I've been watching and reading every posting on this thread since the very first one. Sugarcain I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. The only thing I have to add is about setmefree's post. She is spot on! I agree 100% with everything she said to you and I hope you take in all of her insight. I don't feel stuck, either. I feel fine - better than fine compared to when I was constantly chasing the high, going into withdrawals every month. My doctor put me on heavy duty pain meds for a chronic condition, but I'm responsible for my actions surrounding those meds. Another doctor kept upping my dose of xanax - but I'm responsible for not dealing with my anxiety head-on. I was stuck THEN, not now. I've been on suboxone since December 2008 and not one day since then have I focused on it and felt anything but finally free to live my life like a "normal" person. I'm so thankful that suboxone was available as an option for me. It literally saved my life.

Like others have said here, I wish you all the success possible in your recovery. Please DO come back and keep us posted on how you're doing.

Good luck!

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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