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 Post subject: Last dose 3 days ago
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:55 am 
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I am now on my third day since I made the jump. I had tapered down to a small dose, 125 micrograms. Not feeling too bad as of yet, I'll see what the next couple of days will bring. My biggest issue right now is getting a good night sleep. My back has really been bothering me the last couple nights. I haven't felt any of the symptoms I would feel when I was tapering, sweats, goosebumps and overall high anxiety. I am currently taking buspirone for the anxiety and clonodine helps with the rls@ nite. I will keep this going in the days to come to let others know what's happening. Hopefully I tapered low enough to avoid the heavy wds. Good luck to those on the same path.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:53 am 
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Congratulations on tapering down to 125 micrograms, it will most certainly help you to avoid any major wd symptoms.

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 Post subject: Yea!!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:48 pm 
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Congrats on a successful taper! Please keep posting how you're doing so we can support you and others can see that it can be done, if done correctly.

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 Post subject: End of day 3
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:10 pm 
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Ok so I'm getting ready to end my third day without suboxone. Feeling good right now, but I did start feeling pretty anxious while we took my son into the city for a dr's appt. I think the fact that I have no control over the situation and the environment I'm in cause some of this stress. I was able to deal with it and also the long car ride home with a two year old. When I was home I was more comfortable, finally took an Ativan to take the edge off. Right now just sitting on the couch watching the tube waiting, hoping the ambien knocks me out for a few hours.
I was on bupe maintenance for about six years, never really high doses mainly 2 mg for at least 2 years before I began my taper. My new bupe doc really helped get my taper ball rolling and for that I am grateful. So over the last 8 months I tapered down to 125 micrograms. I had this jump planned for a while, needed to take a week off of both my day and night jobs. But after so long on these meds I'm ready to kick their ass out and be done with them forever. I can't wait to sit on my back deck with a cup of coffee on an early morning and just enjoy the nature around me, I may even be be able to read the newspaper with a clear headi. Bupe did get me away from a dark lonely path of destruction I was headed down. It helped to pull me up to a higherpath where I could make better decisions. During these years of my life while I was on bupe I experienced many of life's wonderful moments. I met my awesome,beautiful, intelligent and extremely supportive wife. We had our first son. Thing were going well. We bought a house, things improving, then there was the birth of our second son,awesome. Well at this point it was only a matter of time to call this quits. I had planned some time off from work at both my jobs to reliev any stress and anxiety. My wife know's what I'm stepping in, so she been a rock in my recovery. I wouldn't be here if not for her. I currently take omega3, vitamin c, b6, l Glutamine and l tyrosine as supplements. My doc have me clonodine and buspirone and ambien to help with the sleeps. We shall see what day 4 has in store for us not nice to know that from here on everything i do, I do it without bupe


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:43 pm 
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Hey Shanks,

Your first few sentences really struck a chord with me. I dealt with a lot of the same anxiety issues when I got off Suboxone. In part, I used drugs throughout my life to help me deal with shit. Once all the narcotics were gone, I was on my own.

I think some of your anxiety may be mild wd, but I think some of it is also you learning how to live a life without drugs. Living life without our little helper can be scary at times, but if you'll continue to "put yourself out there", you'll relearn how to deal with things all on your own. Actually, it's not so much about learning to deal with things, it's learning how to deal with yourself.

Don't be afraid of the new emotions. Some of them are a bit scary, but if you'll allow yourself to experience them you'll see that the emotion rises, peaks, levels off and then fades. A bit scary, yes, but nothing that's gonna kill ya. As you allow yourself to continue to experience these emotions, you'll find that you become more accustomed to them and more comfortable with them.

Good luck and keep posting.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:52 am 
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Shanks, congrats on tapering down to such a low dose and having a successful jump. You're an inspiration to those of us out there that are planning or currently doing the same thing. I too am planning on jumping at a low dose and look forward to your updates as the time goes on.

Keep us posted and keep kicking ass!

RXFCG

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:18 am 
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Yes, please keep updates.
I'm down to 1mg./day on my long, slow taper & because the weekend is here (no work) I
may skip today & tomorrow.
Come Monday morning & grueling work, I'll prolly resume ,my 1mg./day or bump down to
.5mg./day, depending on my level of anxiety?
It's the anxiety while at work that scares me. I do have Klonopin , but i've been taper that as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:55 am 
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Thanks for the replies. Johnny, I know what you mean about the anxiety at work. I too had a hard time trying to keep it together at certain points while I was tapering.
Well, it's the morning of day 4 and I was feeling quite ok until the bathroom trips, I was wondering when this would start. It's fine with me though, I'll just deal with it especially if its the worst I have to complain about today. I'm kind of glad this is happening now instead of when I return to work in a few days. Although I'm sure like a lot of other things, it will linger for awhile. Here's to hoping today goes well. I'll try keep preoccupied.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:45 am 
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@jonny62:

I don't know your background or your reasoning behind your taper method, but I was wondering why you decided to taper from 1mg to .5mg by dropping in one large dose with skipped days in between versus several small doses?

When I was planning out my taper process I considered dropping doses with skipped days in between and I discovered that skipped days dramatically drop the levels of Suboxone in your body which bring on the withdrawal symptons and anxiety. I decided to drop doses by consistant gradual smaller amounts because my chart shows the level of Suboxone in your body reduces gradually which reduces chances of dramatic withdrawal symptons.

I was curious to visual see the difference so I used my Rx Film Taper Chart and charted the two scenarios. See the two pictures below and how your body's Suboxone levels (Red Line) vary with the method of your Suboxone doses (Orange Line).


This picure shows taking 1mg then skipping two days of doses, then .5mg for 5 days and skipping two days and then .25mg.

[img][img]http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r723/RXFCG/1mgto5mg_zps381e167e.jpg[/img][/img]

This picture shows taking each dose, which is gradually reduced for 4 days (1mg, .83, .75, .63, .5, .37 & .25mg)

[img][img]http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r723/RXFCG/Steps1mgto5mg_zps1eda6d33.jpg[/img][/img]

Well I just wanted to share my opinion on the scenario. Whichever path you decide to take, I wish you the best of luck!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:16 pm 
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RXFCG wrote:
@jonny62:

I don't know your background or your reasoning behind your taper method, but I was wondering why you decided to taper from 1mg to .5mg by dropping in one large dose with skipped days in between versus several small doses?


The 8mg. strips are a PITA to cut smaller than .5mg!

RXFCG wrote:

When I was planning out my taper process I considered dropping doses with skipped days in between and I discovered that skipped days dramatically drop the levels of Suboxone in your body which bring on the withdrawal symptons and anxiety. I decided to drop doses by consistant gradual smaller amounts because my chart shows the level of Suboxone in your body reduces gradually which reduces chances of dramatic withdrawal symptons.



I have been reading everywhere for months about tapering.
I also made a "chart" where I "drop doses by consistant gradual smaller amounts", (but with the 8mg. strips.)
Then I saw posts where people would skip a day here and there. So, if I can (no work/weekend) I thought I'd give it a shot?

As I already stated: "The 8mg. strips are a royal PITA" to dose down by .50mgs. and less. That is why I am tapering by 1/2 mgs.
I think I may call my dr. and ask if I can get the 2mg. strips? Then I could cut them and taper in smaller increments as you recommend.
But, I want this shit out of my system as I have no health insurance! I pay the Dr. CASH for each visit. I am also paying CASH per month...$236.11

I just checked RX prices again:
SUBOXONE 8 MG-2 MG SL FILM (30) units / quantity = $236.11
SUBOXONE 2 MG-0.5 MG SL FILM (30) units / quantity $134.65

SUBOXONE 2 MG-0.5 MG SL FILM (10) units / quantity $49.22

If I get 10 strips of the 2mgs. , I could cut them up to taper down in smaller increments (as per your recommendation), and SAVE CASH!

EDIT:
I also wanted to mention another main reason why I want OFF suboxone.....my WEIGHT.
I am 50 y/o, 6' 2" and have always been skinny (yet very muscular) with a fast metabolism. I have never weighed more than 185 lbs? Usually I used to weigh about 175lbs. + or - .My last Drs' visit, I weighed 156lbs! I eat and eat like there's no tomorrow. I also physically work my ass off (manual labor) for 8-9 hrs./day. No matter how much I eat, I just keep losing weight. People are now mentioning how skinny I am (been on Sub. for 8 or 9 months?). This bothers me psychologically. I don't want people to think I'm a skinny opiate (heroin) addict!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:22 pm 
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Quote:
The 8mg. strips are a PITA to cut smaller than .5mg!


Yes, I understand that they can be tough to cut and I had the same issue. Before I started tapering I made a cutting guide and put together some instructions on how to cut 8mg Suboxone Films down to .063mgs and 2mg Films down to .015mg. So it is possible and now that I've been doing it for 3 months, it's not that difficult. Check out this link which gives instructions on how to cut the 8mg and 2mg films into smaller doses and I hope that helps: http://www.rxfilmcuttingguide.com/instructions.html


Quote:
Then I saw posts where people would skip a day here and there. So, if I can (no work/weekend) I thought I'd give it a shot?


Yeah I've read that too and it sounds like it would work, but I think it will still come with some withdrawal symptons. Everyone is different so I hope it works out! I plan on doing that I the end of my taper before I jump off. I'll take my last dose, skip a day, take another dose, skip 2 days, another dose, skip 3 days and so on until im off.

I'm about to switch over from 8mg to 2mg films and that is great for cutting down smaller doses. I'm sure your doctor will be understanding of that and it will save you a lot of money. Everytime I think about how expensive it is to visit the doctor and buy Suboxone prescription I think about how much money I use to spend on oxy and H, and as the time goes on and my dose decreases the costs get less and less.

Hopefully soon enough we'll be where Shank is at and telling everybody how we're off Suboxone and can share how the gradual taper works well! It will another 6 months for me, but hopefully that will come with minimal withdrawals.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:42 pm 
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RXFCG wrote:


Thanks for the link..oh crap...are we treading all over the OP's thread? Sorry, if that's the case!

Anyhow, I am taking a multi vitamin along with B12.

I like the latter part of the link....very informative... I think it should be a "Sticky" but everyone is different.

Quote:
The combination of L-Tyrosine and B-6 have been known to help with the healing process of the brain's neurotransmitters which are greatly effected with addiction.


Gotta get me some B-6 & whatever that "L-Tyrosine" is? Gonna research that.
Thanks!


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 Post subject: End of day 4
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Johnny and Rx, don't worry about using my thread to share info. The more that's out there the better. So it's nearing the end of day 4 for me, this day felt better than yesterday. However I'm know I'm not too far into it so I won't expect too much. I just try and stay busy which keeps the time moving along. So I think one of the things that's been affecting me is some of the meds I'm on, as I said earlier I'm on buspirone for anxiety. I think it's making my head feel funny, kind of like taking too much cold medicine or something. I'm going to discontinue it for now and see how it goes. My neck has been really sore but it feels a little better as I sit here right now. Surprisingly haven't had to much of the goosebumps or overall sensitive skin feeling, thought that would be making me a bit uncomfortable. I'm sure ill have a hell of a time getting a good nights rest but that's to be expected I guess. Overall thus far things are mild at best. Days will turn into weeks then months and so on, looking forward is always motivation.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:36 pm 
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Thanks.
Since we interjected on your thread.... I don't recall, are you taking a muti vitamin?
And, maybe some B-12 or B-6 and L-Tyrosine?
Also, I have been pounding Gatorade (powder & mix it myself).

Just a thought in case you start having more difficulties?
And I'm sure you're on top of the Immodium HD for the lower unit area? The Immodium
for bathroom frequency is all over the sub. threads.

Don't stop the updates! You help me/us as well as yourself talking about it I assume?


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 Post subject: Start of day 5
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:56 am 
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Johnny, I'm not taking a multi-vitamin although I do have some. Two weeks before I jumped I started taking B6, vitamin C, omega-3, L-tyrosine and L-Glutamine. I also just started taking some B-12 for the energy factor. Also, since I've read many stories of depression that comes with PAWS, I started taking Wellbutrin about 6 or 7 weeks ago.
So anyway, this morning I feel pretty well. Got some better sleep last night with a little help from Ambien and Clonodine. I also have been doing my best to stay hydrated with Gatorade, orange juice and water. We'll see what happens with the rest of the day, should be okay. I'll update at the end of the day.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Quote:
I like the latter part of the link....very informative... I think it should be a "Sticky" but everyone is different.


Thanks jonny62, I think it should be a sticky too because I feel it's very informative on how to cut your films. Maybe if enough forum posters or moderators believe it should be, then it will?

@ Shanks1224

Ever since I started tapering, I started taking a good quality Multivitamin, Omega Complex, Amino Acids tablets (which include L-Tyrosine), B-12 & 5-HTP. Maybe it's overkill, but I believe it makes me feel better physically and mentally I know my body is getting the nutrients it needs to heal.

Also, it's great to hear that you feel well! I think getting sleep, controlling your stomach and reducing the RLS are the main symptoms to try and reduce and it sounds like you're doing a good job with that. The medication the doctor gave you and exercise should be beneficial.

Quote:
I had planned some time off from work at both my jobs to relieve any stress and anxiety.


I recall you saying you got time off of work for the withdrawal process. How much time did you take off how did you time your last dose? I'm hoping I don't need to take time off since I'm tapering to such a low dose, but I might take some off just to be certain. I figured I would take my last dose 3 days before I took off work so my 4th day off Suboxone would be my 1st day off work and the heaviest of the withdrawals would be setting in. I'm just trying to be efficient with my time and don't want to take work off if the withdrawal symptoms aren't that bad.

Keep it up and keep us updated!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Vitamins, amino acids, supps etc are really for malnourished people, and very rarely do folks in the first world need or take these supplements, they will not do much at all for sub detox. We shouldn't clutch on straws here, need to play the piper eventually.

Meds like wellbutrin or any other SRRIs don't do much either in the intial stages of sub detox, if anything prolong brain healing.. They were made for folks who naturally have chemical inbalances and low dopamine, not related from bup...

Bup depression can last for a very long time, so taking any AD meds is only going to prolong it.. The only way bup depression lifts is if you do not keep putting meds in your brain, the brain heals when it is not having meds in the receptors.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Rx, I decided to take the time off work so I wouldn't be stressing out about how I was going to feel. I wanted to take the whole week off, last day on a Friday have two weekends off then back to work on that Monday. However it didn't work out that way because a job interview came up so I had to push things back a bit. I'm off work from Tuesday of this past week and back to work this coming Tuesday.

Icarus, I respect your opinion however, whatever it is I'm doing is working for me. My sub doctor is the one who prescribed me the Wellbutrin and I trust they know what they're doing. I'm sure if there was evidence that supported negative side effects these wouldn't be used. As for all the other supplements, I'm sure they don't cause any harm. If I remember correctly, Icarus, on a thread I posted a month ago or so I stated that I was down to .5mg/ day and you were at the same point. Well it's nearing the end of my fifth day and I'm feeling pretty damn good, all things considered. I wish you all the best in your continued recovery. Try to stay positive.


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 Post subject: Hi Shanks
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Hello, I just wanted to say Hello and to tell you, You are doing great! It is good that you were able to get yourself to such a low dosage before jumping. I couldn't get past 2 or 3 mg, so I just took the leap! My wds peaked on day 5! You sound like you are doing great on day 5 so happy for you. As far as what Icaras said, I agree with some of it and disagree with some of it. I believe we should take a multi-vitamin especially in withdrawals because frequent bathroom breaks, sweating and generally feeling run down partly because of wds partly because of sleep issues can really take a toll and we need to put the vitamins and minerals back into our bodies. Also from my experience most opiate addicts whether on full agonists or subs tend to Not pay very much attention to getting the proper nutrients. We just eat whatever is there to eat. There were some days I didn't eat at all so paying attention to good health and getting all the vitamins we need has to be beneficial in more ways than one.

Where I agree is the anti-depressant part. I had a terrible experience 10 years ago getting off Paxil CR. I had been taking it for around a year and a half and I wanted to get pregnant so I stopped taking it. I did switch to regular Paxil and wean my dosage, but that did not make a bit of difference. I had to go stay with my Mom I was so extremely sick in withdrawals from the paxil. It took me about seven months to feel normal again after stopping that med. So now I am totally against any type of SSRI or any other anti-depressant drug. My doctor tried to prescribe me Celexa while I was tapering. I said not NO but Heck NO! I will never go through that hell again. I lost a ton of weight, had hallucinations, thoughts of suicide, I even tried to starve myself to stop the anxiety and depression it was horrible. I did not sleep for days and days. It was MUCH worse than sub withdrawals. I think they are fine if a person plans to stay on them for the rest of their life, but if you don't have that plan in mind you may want to do a little research on the wds from the Wellbutrin. That is just my experience. I would rather deal with a few months of depression than ever have to go through what I went through again. I do not wish to scare or worry you, but rather to inform you. Those are some horrible drugs. I had a good friend blow his face off trying to stop wellbutrin. I just hate any anti-depressant drug.

Other than that I say you are doing great! Keep up the good work!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:44 am 
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Greatest, thanks for the info. I think I will be looking into discontinuing the Wellbutrin since I don't want to go through any other withdrawals again, not to say mine are bad now. It's the morning of day six and physically I feel okay, just a weird feeling in my head which could be attributed to the Wellbutrin or one of the sleep aids I take. Like you said in one of your earlier posts, you start to notice a pattern in what others post on different threads, I know the goal here is to be positive and supportive while trying to provide people with as much helpful information as possible. Thank you again for the info, I'm taking the time to look into it more closely.


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