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 Post subject: My last 10 days on Sub
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:21 pm 
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So after 11 weeks and 2 days (as of the 31st) I will be stoping subs. I initially thought a couple weeks would be enough to get me past the detox phase and I would just gut it out. I had no idea how strong Sub is. I started on 8mg and AMA weaned almost immediately. I was down to 4 mg within a week and 2mg a week after that. I found the sub 1mg cuts much harder than over. I cut two days ago from .075mg/day to .05mg/day. It has been taking me about 6-7 days to stabilize so I cut the day after I have a really bad night of RLS. That is my tell that my body has adjusted. The next few days are fine until days 3/4 then good til day 6-7. I am so tired of feeling crappy. I know I have pushed this faster than I maybe should have but my desire to leave ALL pills behind is very strong. I plan on cutting again Sunday or Monday and being at .025mg for about 4 days before I jump. I have been using the liquid taper as I have the 8mg pills and breaking them up beyond 1/4ths is not really feasible.
Because I chose to taper from the start, my doctor did not want to treat me. Her feeling was that everyone is a junky and must be on sub forever. In three years of treating patients she does not have a single one not still on Sub. That is not for me. I am really hoping that the muscle relaxers and Xanax I have acquired will be enough on the hard nights when I cannot sleep. For regular WD's after jumping, I will have the gym and hot tub. I will keep people updated so they know how MY experience was coming from 3 years of Norco use and how my taper and short time on Sub affects the Acute and PAWS. Thanks to everyone who has given me unconditional support and encouragement. Until my next post.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:28 pm 
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I'll be watching to see how you do since your experience is similar to mine...on Norco for 2 years and haven't been on subs that long. And I also tapered down to 2mg after just a couple weeks, but I did bump it up to 3mg over the last week. Good luck in your taper!


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 Post subject: Doing great
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:13 am 
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You are doing fantastic. Don't be afraid to up it a little bit when you rbody tells you that you need to. Today is day 4 on .05 and my slee has been not great. I sleep for about 3 hours right away then I am up and restless. Got up and went to the first floor to watch tv and ended up sleeping on the couch off and on until 5 when I just got up. I see a nap in my future. The daytime symptoms are not bad. I am pretty easily able to wait until 11 or 12 for my first dose of .025. Then the second around 8. Planning on ditching the morning dose on Sunday and maybe taking the night dose around 5. Then a few days later no more pills!


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 Post subject: Bad nights
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:07 am 
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So last night was another crappy night. Read until about 9:45 and fell asleep realy easily (thank you soma) and then wooke up an hour later, really AWAKE and having this GD RLS again. I was also super hot even though it was only 70 degrees in my house. I got up and went downstairs and wathed tv or a few hours. I have been at .05 for four days but felt fine yesterday, so I did not take my evening dose of ,025. About 3am I took a couple of drops (mabe .0125 mg) and took it, thoguh at such a ridiculously small dose I do not know if that helped. I feel fine this morning... Brutally tired, but no RLS (I only get that at night) no wd's. I will try to just take one dose of .025mg today, maybe .0375 around 6 or 7 so I am hopefully solid for sleep tonight. I am going to try to get some clonidine from my old doctor to help with that. I thinkI remember people saying it helps with RLS. 8 days to my jump. I am seriously considering just doing it sooner since each dose does not seem to help much.


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 Post subject: RLS
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:35 pm 
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When you (and everybody else) says RLS, what exactly is happening to your legs? Are they shaking, cramping, jumping, aching...with sharp pains or dull pains??? I have never had this and I am wondering if you had this happen before getting on subs, or if it's just a symptom of sub wd? This seems to be one of the biggest complaints that people have when tapering because I read about it all the time in taper posts.


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 Post subject: RLS
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:56 pm 
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I have never had RLS before reducing the subs. For me they feel crampy and they just cannot sit still. It is in my arms too. IT feels like I can't stretch them out far enough. Very uncomfortable and makes sleep impossible. I have found muscle relaxers help but they are short lasting which is why I keep waking up after only a few hours sleep. I try rubbing them deeply and strectching but that only helps a very smal amount. I am actually calling my old doc to see if I can get clonidine as everyone says that helps a lot. I think my jump would be a piece of cake with those.


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 Post subject: Last day
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:39 pm 
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So after the last few days, I realize that I feel fine (well fine enough) during the day to not take any sub. Sleep is a problem but it will be regardless of when I jump. So GERONIMO!!!!! Took my last dose yesterday. If I find it is too soon and I really am suffering, I have my bottle of liquid sub. .05mg/ML, so I can literally quirt a coupl edrops under my tongue and get like 12.5mcg which won't have a big effect but may take the edge off. Hopefully my old doc just gives me the damned Clonidine. I will keep you posted! Also, make sure to check out Sweet 16's thread. We are jumping from basically the same level but from different drugs and times on our DOC and sub. It may be an interesting contrast for people to read.


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 Post subject: Pity Party for me
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:37 pm 
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I failed. I suck. Can't believe I can't handle this. I am fine during the day but come time to sleep, I can't. I am four days on maybe 6 hours of sleep. I can't get comfort meds to stop this RLS. I can't sleep. I threw out my liquid solution of Sub. I still have 3.5 8mg pills but I am not about to take any of those. I will just have to deal with not sleeping for the next week I suppose. Eventually I will be si tired I wil fall asleep. Even if it is just a couple hours a day and mabe 2 at night. Hot baths, sleepy time tea, walks, elevated legs. Anyone have any other reccommendations for the RLS?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:07 am 
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Hey NoMorePills, your wd sounds a lot like mine. I only got about 20 minutes of sleep per night for the first 10 nights. Rather than lay in bed and flip and flop like a lunatic, I decided to get up and watch TV. I knew I had to find something on TV that capture my interest and I had the good fortune or recording a Stone Temple Pilots concert. It's an excellent concert, all great songs and it was an hour long. I would play that recording over and over again. I also taped something on VH1......Rock Hour or something like that. I got some good Scorpions, Joan Jett, Aerosmith, The Smithereens and even Run to the Hills by Iron Maiden. Those recorded shows kept me sane on those long nights.

After the initial 10 days of wd passed, I found I was able to get about 2 hours of sleep per night.....but it didn't come until 5am. Watching the clock move past 1am, then 2am, then 3am, etc is hard.....so I'd watch my rock videos and they would pull me through. The two hours of sleep per night went on until about day 30. On day 30 my witch of a Suboxone doctor gave me ONE Clonidine and said try it. She said if I wanted more that I would once again have to become her patient (aka huge dollars) and I told her to stick it where the sun don't shine. I went to my General Practitioner and he understood exactly what I needed, he gave me 60 Clonidine (to take twice per day) and several refills. He had me come back after a week to check on me. The Clonidine improved my sleep from 2 hours per night to about 4 hours per night. When I went back to see him, he gave me Ambien which only made me completely loopy. With Ambien, you can kinda get stuck in a no mans land.....pretty weird stuff. Anyway, I stuck with my Clonidine and slowly taught my brain how to go to sleep again. Every week or so I would move my bedtime up by 15 minutes or so, it took a while, but I finally got my bedtime to 11pm and then I tapered off the Clonidine and my sleep has been fairly decent since.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:22 am 
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Hi NoMorePills,

I am so sorry you are going through such hell with the RLS. I know exactly what it is like....it sucks BIG TIME!!! I posted this a few days ago on another thread, but my doc gave me Requip for the RLS about a year ago...maybe longer. It isn't a total fix as I found that sometimes it would work great and sometimes it didn't help at all, but it would be worth a shot if you can get some prescribed to you. I believe that this is becoming a fairly common prescription for restless legs. About the Ambien...I would be very careful with it. Depending on how confident you are with your recovery. I know I will never take it again. I became addicted to it pretty quickly. It is in a class of drugs called hallucinegens (sp?). I got where I was taking two of the 10mg. pills per night because I enjoyed the relaxed feeling I would get from them. At first you really get kind of messed up on them, doing things that you would not normally do and not remembering any of it. But then after awhile I just kind of got a nice relaxed, calm feeling....it was nice but dangerous for an addict. But I have to honestly say that I did not have trouble with RLS while taking them. Other meds that made me sleepy would usually make it worse, I could not take tylenol PM or benadryl or any of those other over the counter sleep meds because it would make my RLS so much worse. It was kind of like my mind would get overly tired and my body would not let me go to sleep....terrible thing. But the ambien did not do that...I slept like a baby. It would even get rid of [/u]some[u] of the body aches when I was going through slight w/d when I would run out of my Lortabs. Just be very careful with it if you do decide to go there....maybe only get like ten of them to get you through the worst part and then don't let yourself get any more.

I really hope you get through this okay. I hate to see anyone suffering. I hate this disease of addiction! I know that we actively participated in making ourselves this way, but it is just so terrible! Don't be so hard on yourself, you are doing great! Keep trying, you will make it!!!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:57 am 
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I wouldn't think it would be a big deal to have a small benzo dose each night to help you sleep like valium. Only if you know you could control it. I say that because I've used valium as a detox medication in the past and had no real issues keeping their use to a minimum.

Has your doctor prescribed anything like that?


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 Post subject: Finally!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:52 am 
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My sub doc is horrible. She said if I wanted any of the comfort meds that I said she should have prescribed for me whenI stopped seeing her, I would have to pay her retainer again and make an appointment. The only reason I went to her was that it would not be reported for insurance reasons as I am trying to qualify. That being said, I called my old GP in CA and told him I stopped taking the norcos he had been prescribing and I was suffering. He immediately called in a Clonidine script with refills. I took one last night and I slept like a baby. No hint of the RLS. I feel so much beter today. I have been taking .5mg of xanax the last few nights to try to make me sleep but they only let me sleep for about an hour then I would be wide awake. Hopefully the clonidine continus to work.
Thank you all for the well wishes and great advice.


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