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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:39 pm 
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I was back on here a ways back....so I'd been on suboxone 6 years. Tapered off. It was rough but I did it. After I got off, the same pain issues that lead me to get on it came right back. Held out and held out. Broke. Went onto MS Contin. Spent about 2 years on that crap. It's time release, so I can't say i was ever 'high' on it. But the pain got worse, the doses got higher, pain got worse, doses get higher....u guys know the drill.

A couple weeks ago, I checked myself into a place and detoxed the wonderful old-fashioned way. :roll: That was my first and only detox from full agonist opiates and boy oh boy, I will not forget it!! They did try to give me Subutex. I took one 2-mg on Day 3 or 4 (can't remember), which was the worst day I could dream up, but it did nothing, and the taste was totally unbearable (they are bitter and not orange/lime)....which lead me to puke out the Subutex, probably also why it did not work. From then on, I did refuse any more of it. I'm 12 days out from it. I'm super incredibly glad to be off pain meds. Of course, I'm weak. More like wwwweeeeaaaaakkkkk and all that and if anyone can give me some feedback on when that subsides, I'd really love it. I'm gonna be trying a new way of eating and living really clean. I've got some unknown autoimmune crap that is no fun, BUT I have a big sister who is right in the thick of it w/ me and researches everything and is guiding me.....and I'm not good with diet and all that.....

Despite the incredible and horrible pain of detox, it was a lot easier than tapering off Sub. But that's just me. I'm not here to judge. I think everyone has to do what is best for them.

That's just my story. :D

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Of course we remember you, laddertipper!

I remember that you had tapered off sub and I'm so sorry that the pain caught right back up to you! It's also really unfortunate that sub didn't work for you long term for pain control. For some folks in chronic pain it can be the answer, but that obviously wasn't the case for you.

One really awesome thing is that you have your sister in your corner. :) Since she understands and has a plan for you that will hopefully work, you don't have to feel alone in your fight to stay well. I'm glad that you checked back in. The detox from full agonists is hard, but you should be feeling better within a couple of weeks from your detox. If you've already been out 12 days you should be through the worst of it! I hope you're feeling great really soon!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:24 pm 
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Wahoo! So cool to hear from you, Amy!! Yup, pain sucks donkey, doesn't it? I thought about going back on Sub for pain control for a NY minute. It did a pretty decent job at the higher doses. BUT.....that taper was sooooooooo hard and long. Man, you know, I'll just never be able to get back on it. I gotta get to the causes somehow, because I really shouldn't be in that much pain....I think the environment is poisoning me somehow, but that's a rabbit hole. I have a TDAP booster tomorrow and a flu shot, or else I cannot see me premature new niece. My big sis is like 'NO BOOSTER!' My little sister is like 'no booster and no visiting my baby.' I'm worrying about the vaccines sending me into a pain cycle again.....maybe just asking for the whooping cough alone.....not sure what to do.

So good to 'see' a friendly face.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:11 pm 
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Hi laddertipper

I also got hooked on pain meds because of chronic pain, autoimmune disorder which caused RA, Lupus and a few random painful things. My daughter just sent me a link on treating the whole person with AI disorders. One of the main things to get out of our diet is gluten according to this article. Using turmeric daily is supposed to help because of the natural anti inflammatory properties. I do believe diet has alot to do with flare ups for me. I kept a journal of what i ate and how i felt, turns out popcorn set me off, i never even considered that.

Congratulations on kicking sub and now the opiates, Good Luck on pain management. I don't know what your pain actual is but i use a TENS unit among other things.

Also congrats on your new niece! What a blessing!!!

So far i am good with pain control on suboxone but ya never know what the future holds so i am pleased you came back and updated. Hope you stick around & continue posting,


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Wow oh Wow,
Ladder, you won t know me but when I found this forum back in 2011 I never posted. It took a YEAR before i opened my mouth.
But you and the bunch back then,I followed. Lots of old names that are gone. .I often wondered how you and several others were doing.
Lots of zanny stuff went on back then. Haha

Congrats on your new found recovery and clean time. Good to hear from you.

Razor


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:18 am 
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Tiki, the journaling is what I'm all about right now too. I'm trying to eat totally clean. I don't know what is up. My ANA factor and Rhuematoid factor are high. That'll probably sound familiar to you. And I get attacks where I get a fever and my joints get hot. Diagnosed with fibro only. I have all the pressure points that make me bananas, so my TENS is my BFF every nite. My back and neck are the worst.

razor55, what took you so long to talk, goober? A year just reading? Man, I'm way too much of a big mouth for that. Lol. And yes, there was a lot of zany stuff going on. Stuff better left unmentioned. :shock:

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:13 am 
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LT,

It is a supreme pleasure to have you back in our company. You helped a lot on this forum and we all watched while you tapered and stopped.

I'm really sorry you had to go through all that crap again but that is the life of an addict. The great news is that you are clean and plan on staying that way.

A lot of us worried about you because no one knew where you went. So now that worry is gone and I do hope you stay around again.

Rule

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:53 am 
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Hey LT,

I definitely remember you, but I can't remember if I was posting back when you were around or if I just remember reading all of your posts later on. :D

Either way, I'm glad to see you are doing well and that you are back on track! Just goes to show everyone that this is a lifelong issue. I hate that you had to go through the WD again, but huge props for being able to do it a second time!

Q

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:59 pm 
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Woohooo! Hello to you guys again too!

So, there's all my energy for the day. I think this is Day 15 or 16 since I jumped off from a verrrryyyy high dose of MS Contin. I have no energy. Stomach still a mess, and and and I HAVE to go back to work tomorrow. I have to. no way out....I tried! :roll: At counseling, people were saying to focus on the 30 day mark and believe it will get better. I'm super optimistic and all, just hard when every step is a chore and you have kids and dogs and a husband and a house to keep and a stupid job. I'm taking a lot of extra vitamins, especially B. I am really, really, really struggling to get through the day, everyday. ANY advice is appreciated. or encouragement. Anything. I can see why peeps give up, but I'm not giving up. :wink:

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:39 pm 
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Hi baby, it's Queenie, so good to hear from you. So sorry you don't feel well. I still remember the yucky feeling. Do you have anything to help you get over without it being a big problem. I'm not too good at this but like Valium or something to even you out. I hope you can do it. I am on 8mgs of Sub a day. I went from 32mgs to 8 in 3 1/2 years.. Feel fine. Let me know what happens & how you feel. Love you sweetheart. Be strong. I understand.
Queenie


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:52 pm 
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Glad to see you're doing OK.

I just want to correct the information in your initial post, as the comments are taken seriously and can cause grief to a lot of people.

The severity of withdrawal from buprenorphine is less severe than from an equi-potent dose of an agonist. Moreover, the typical agonist dose is much higher than the maximum effect of buprenorphine. You mentioned, initially, that 'it was much easier stopping agonists than buprenorphine'. It is important to point out a couple things-- first, that you were eventually able to taper yourself off buprenorphine. It was very hard, and difficult, but you did it. But you could not do the same with agonists-- not without checking into a detox facility. Second, you are still having considerable withdrawal, after leaving the detox facility.

I've had many patients discontinue Suboxone/buprenorphine. The comment I hear, over and over, is that 'it was nothing like I thought it would be after reading the internet.' (i.e. it was not as difficult as they expected). I've had a number of patients stop buprenorphine without missing work-- which is difficult, but possible.

I've started over 900 people on buprenorphine over 9 years, and I have 100 now. I don't keep numbers on everyone who leaves, but I would estimate that I've followed at least 50 through the entire taper process, from start to finish. It is very clear that the difficulty of a taper off buprenorphine relates to how ready a person is to go off the medication. Readiness, in turn, is strongly related to time on the medication. I see many people who have been on buprenorphine for one year, who turn a taper into a nightmare process of going up, going down, going up, etc, so that they are sick for months.

On the other hand I've had many patients get to 3-5 years, who just suddenly decide 'it's time'. I've had many patients come in for a 3 month check (a typical follow-up for someone doing well for years), who say 'guess what? I decided to stop.'

My point isn't to argue with anyone; people have their own perspectives. But I've often written that 'it is hard to taper off buprenorphine.... but NOBODY tapers off agonists.' For the people out there taking buprenorphine products, I encourage you to get on with your life and try to ignore the fact that you take buprenorphine. At some point, after a few years, most of you will decide that you are ready to stop. Give it a shot-- and if you struggle, go back to forgetting about it and wait another year or two. If you are like most people, the process won't be the hardest thing you've ever done (I would much prefer it to having a baby for example; luckily I'll never have to do that!).

Laddertripper, I wish you the best. The entire process of resetting tolerance, whether from bupe or agonists, required making new opioid receptors. The body has no idea what medication was discontinued; it only knows 1. the rate that opioid stimulation decreases (i.e. longer with buprenorphine), and 2. the starting tolerance level (typically lower with bupe than with agonists). The entire process takes 8-12 months in almost all cases from start to finish, as long as the person is completely off opioids during that time. According to most people here, exercise helps-- I think by reducing the depression that often sets in.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:18 pm 
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Welcome back! Didn't know you back then but it's always nice when people return to continue sharing their journey.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:27 pm 
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Queenie! OMG! So happy to hear from your awesome self. How are you??

I'm on Day 21 off the MS Contin. Had to work 8 straight hours up on my feet the last four days (three were out of town). Today, got the day off b/c my kid got sick. Really hating the low energy and aching legs, but sleeping about half normal. Now that I have a sponsor, I have someone telling me what to do, and I'm actually listening. THAT is a miracle. :lol: She had me not take the Neurontin the doc scripted...actually had me flush it....so what I get to take is Motrin and that's it. :shock: Epsom salt baths are my current BFF. Waiting to see what my body throws my way. I have fibro, typically flares when i do anything too much or eat certain food. I get a fever and my joints freak out and my blood work gets abnormal for the RA and ANA factors. Yesterday, I ate pizza (not clean on my current diet) and today I feel like sh**. That's okay, cuz tomorrow will probably be better. Trying to learn to not live in fear of pain or bad flares. That is my current goal. It's not gonna kill me.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:37 pm 
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Hi Laddertipper,

I remember you well, as we were fighting our battles together for a time. Sorry to hear about your struggles, but great to know you are doing well. Keep kicking butt my friend!


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 2:52 pm 
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ladder...it was good to hear how you are doing. I am back and still trying to taper down :) Sorry to hear of your struggles but seems you have your head on straight and are trying to find your new "normal".

suboxdoc...thanks for explaining and clarifying some things for those of us out here still tapering. Your post gives me a lot of hope that I, too, can do this.

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 4:21 am 
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suboxdoc wrote:
My point isn't to argue with anyone; people have their own perspectives. But I've often written that 'it is hard to taper off buprenorphine.... but NOBODY tapers off agonists.' .


I know a number of people who have successfully tapered off methadone, so am unsure if this statement is entirely true. In fact there's many in my local NA fellowship who tapered off methadone in the rooms.

Me personally, I struggle to taper off any opioid including Suboxone without checking myself into an institution.


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