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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:27 pm 
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It's down to 3 days til my induction and I'm starting to stress. The # of pills I have left is dwindling and normally I'd have already up'd my stash by now. The fear of running out has consumed my life for the last 2 years and I'm having major anxiety thinking all kinds of thoughts that are probably irrational. Like, what if for some reason the doctor tells me she won't put me on Suboxone at my appointment...like something I tell her while filling out my paperwork changes her mind or something. I would be SOOOOO screwed. I'd be in withdrawl and absolutely no pills to take and who knows how long it would take me to find some. I'm seriously considering finding some more now as back up in case that happens. Or I think, what if I do get on Suboxone and I am miserable or have precipitated withdrawls, and I just need to take a pill as soon as the first dose wears off to get me back to normal. I know if I wait long enough before I am inducted that I will not experience PW, but what if I am so miserable the day before, and I end up taking just one pill too close to induction, and that is enough to give me PW's?? My doctor said I can take a Norco 12 hours before induction, but I think that is cutting it way too close. I am planning on trying to take my last pill 24 hours before my appt. But I'm not sure how many pills I can take at that time. I usually take 3 10/325mg Norco's at a time, and that holds me over longer than if I just take 1, but will taking 3 pills 24 hour before induction be too much?? Ugghhh, I'm driving myself crazy!!! If anyone has been inducted from taking just Norco or Vicodin, can you tell me how long you waited from you last dose, and how many mgs the last dose was? I know I have to go by COWS, I guess I'm just needing to be assured by someone.


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 Post subject: Mgs of Suboxone
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Oh, and I also am stressing on how many mgs the doctor is going to start me at. I know I don't need 8mgs because I don't take as many pills as a lot of people I've read about (I take about 100mgs hydrocodone a day), so I'm hoping I can ask the doctor to just start me at 2 mg Suboxone and see if that is ok so I don't come home with a whole bunch of side effects. But then I'm worried she will say, well, why do you even need to get on it if you only need that much, since most doctors only know what the manufacturer has told them. Plus I want to get the 8mgs films prescribed (instead of the 2mg films) so that 1 month's price is really getting me a few months worth of medicine so I can afford it long term. I know, I know I'm totally obsessing right now!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Mgs of Suboxone
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:10 pm 
Taurus wrote:
Oh, and I also am stressing on how many mgs the doctor is going to start me at. I know I don't need 8mgs because I don't take as many pills as a lot of people I've read about (I take about 100mgs hydrocodone a day), so I'm hoping I can ask the doctor to just start me at 2 mg Suboxone and see if that is ok so I don't come home with a whole bunch of side effects. But then I'm worried she will say, well, why do you even need to get on it if you only need that much, since most doctors only know what the manufacturer has told them. Plus I want to get the 8mgs films prescribed (instead of the 2mg films) so that 1 month's price is really getting me a few months worth of medicine so I can afford it long term. I know, I know I'm totally obsessing right now!!!


In a way, obsessing is good. You've done a lot of research and that will serve you well.

With your habit, doing it the way you want to (start at 2mg, see how you feel, etc) is an excellent idea. You don't want to end up taking more Subz than you were your DOC!! Plus, it doesn't take very much Sub at all to block hydrocodone.

I think most ppl on here will tell you to "stockpile" and take what your doctor gives you. Subz can be expensive, and a stash will protect you if the pharmacy fucks up. For some reason, they never fuck up people's pain killer prescriptions but if you're a Sub patient, prepare to be taken less seriously by some. Find a pharmacy you like with a nonjudgemental pharmacist.


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 Post subject: Also
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:26 pm 
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And another reason I'm stressing is because the pharmacy that I found is the cheapest (Rite Aid) doesn't open til 9am and I'm supposed to be at the doctor's office at 7:30am. They said to bring someone with me to pick up my prescription and when they get back with it, the will administer it to me. That means I'm going to be sitting in the dr's office for at least 3 hours in withdrawl! I asked if I could come in for my appt closer to 9:00 but they said no, be there at 7:30. I wish my doctor was one of those who send you home with it to induce on your own so I could be miserable in my own home. Ok I'll try to stop bitching, I know I got myself into this mess in the first place, I just felt the need to vent.

And I guess it depends on who you talk to at the pharmacy because the first time I called to check on prices, the lady on the phone said they also have a $75 off coupon, but when I called back yesterday just to make sure they had it in stock, I asked a different person who answered the phone about the $75 coupon and she acted like she didn't know what I was talking about. I wish I could go get the Rx myself because my boyfriend, who is picking it up for me, probably won't ask because he doesn't like to cause "hassles" and I don't mind if we are talking about $75!! I didn't know that pharmacies would give out medication to someone unless it is in their name. Oh no, now I'm worried that he won't be able to get it. I should probably ask for some medication for OCD too! :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:37 pm 
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Taurus,
If your appointment is at 7:30 make sure you stop taking your Norcos at like 1-2 the previous day. You will not be in bad enough shape to dose you. SO your wait may be ok unitl you can get the pills. Also, I know my doc had a few pills there to dose new clients and then I paid her back out of my script. Also, I thought just like you and 8 mg was the right dose for the first few days. Then I cut to 4mg and then 2mg within a week. The first day though I still felt like crap with only 4mg in my system. And definitely stockpile! That is how I still have pills and quit my doc.


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 Post subject: One more thing
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:40 pm 
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My last dose was about 18 hours before and it was probably 5 or 6 pills spread over an hour or so. If I was going in the next day I was going to go big. Hydrocodone has a very short half life and the number you take won't matter a whole lot. I was scared shitless about PW and I was totally fine. Just remember, if you feel like you got punched in the face, you are good to go!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Just wanted to point out a few things after reading through this thread...

1- You have to stop counting down the hours after last use, you need to go by your withdrawals, only you know how long it will take your body to get into mild to moderate withdrawal. It has nothing to do with how long ago your last use was, It has to do with withdrawal.. counting hours is the easiest way to set yourself up for PW withdrawals.

2- It DOES NOT matter how much you use that last time as long as your in withdrawals before you take the Sub.

3- You might just need 8mg of Sub, you might just need 16mg of Sub.. Ive noticed that the amount of Sub one needs has nothing to do with what their habit was, how much they weigh or their height.. Everyones body is different and everyone will need to take a different amount depending on what your body tells you, not depending on how many Norcos you took a day or what amount of Sub someone else takes. I just dont wanna see you set yourself up saying you dont need more then 2mg of Sub because you never took more then 100mg of Norco when the truth is that the amount of Sub each person needs has nothing really to do with what their habit was.

4- STOP STRESSING!! Everything will be fine.. & Good Luck!!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:52 am 
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Hi Taurus,

I'm hoping your induction goes much smoother for you than you anticipate! Will the doctor not give you the prescription until you're actually there for your appointment? I had my script for a couple of weeks, and was instructed to arrive at my induction appointment with the script already filled.

I was on 100 mg of percocet/oxycodone per day before induction and I ended up feeling comfortable at 16mg. I agree with sodone that the amount of sub you need is not necessarily related to how much you are using. Many people here say that tapering only gets tough when you're down to 2-4 mgs/day. They have found that dropping from 16mg, for example, can be done fairly rapidly until they reach the 4mg mark, so I wouldn't worry about being at a higher dose. I hate to see you do yourself the disservice of underestimating what your body needs. This is a time to take it easy on yourself as you get used to a new normal.

BTW, I'm not sure why, but my doc said that I had to stop taking pills 48 hours prior to induction, which I think was a little excessive. It is completely amazing how much better you will feel at the end of your induction appointment.

Congratulations on taking this first, important step! Be proud of yourself for turning your life around!

Amy

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:27 am 
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Taurus wrote:
It's down to 3 days til my induction and I'm starting to stress. The # of pills I have left is dwindling and normally I'd have already up'd my stash by now. The fear of running out has consumed my life for the last 2 years and I'm having major anxiety thinking all kinds of thoughts that are probably irrational. Like, what if for some reason the doctor tells me she won't put me on Suboxone at my appointment...like something I tell her while filling out my paperwork changes her mind or something. I would be SOOOOO screwed. I'd be in withdrawl and absolutely no pills to take and who knows how long it would take me to find some. I'm seriously considering finding some more now as back up in case that happens. Or I think, what if I do get on Suboxone and I am miserable or have precipitated withdrawls, and I just need to take a pill as soon as the first dose wears off to get me back to normal. I know if I wait long enough before I am inducted that I will not experience PW, but what if I am so miserable the day before, and I end up taking just one pill too close to induction, and that is enough to give me PW's?? My doctor said I can take a Norco 12 hours before induction, but I think that is cutting it way too close. I am planning on trying to take my last pill 24 hours before my appt. But I'm not sure how many pills I can take at that time. I usually take 3 10/325mg Norco's at a time, and that holds me over longer than if I just take 1, but will taking 3 pills 24 hour before induction be too much?? Ugghhh, I'm driving myself crazy!!! If anyone has been inducted from taking just Norco or Vicodin, can you tell me how long you waited from you last dose, and how many mgs the last dose was? I know I have to go by COWS, I guess I'm just needing to be assured by someone.





T,
Please don't ruin your first induction by trying to out-think the doctor. In my opinion you do not need to start on 2 o 4mg.
You said you were taking100 mg. of hydro a day thats 10 10mg. pills a day and probably some days you lost count and took more as I did. I would think 8-16mg. would be the better way. And please don't try to taper down right away...let this medicine get in your system and work for you for awhile before you start playing doctor. On a good dose of suboxone/subutex you will feel so much better than you have ever felt, and will not have any cravings for your old drugs...you will be able to wake up in the am and not have to stress over finding enough pills for the day..it truly is a miracle...your slavery to the drug deal will be lifted. I feel if you start off at 2mg. you will not be covered and will not feel well and will crave your old drugs...Please do not try to out think your doctor! I was on Norco's took about 15 a day and I stopped 12 hrs before and was fine...I suppose every doctor is different but I had to go across the street and get my script filled and then bring him the one back to replace the one he gave me. If you are worried about your b/f not being able to get your pills write a letter of permission saying it is ok for him to pick it up..put his name on it so they can identify him and sign your name at the bottom..you should have no trouble then.

Good luck to you and keep us posted on your recovery..remember you are paying big bucks for this...might as well make it work..I started at 16 and now am on 10...I manage to save a few back every month but I am not nearly ready to reduce more or taper off...I have been on subutex for 1 year and 8 mo...

Sincerely,
Slipper


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:30 am 
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I was planning on responding when I got to reading about half-way through this thread, until I got to sodone's response. ON TARGET - in every way.

It's NOT how long you're in w/d, but how bad they are. And you don't want to start out on such a low dose that you're not getting enough sub in your system. Then you'll just struggle with chronic withdrawals and feel like shit until you get your dose high enough. We've seen people come through here doing that until they finally agree to up their dose and wow - they finally feel better. Just be open-minded and let your doctor guide your treatment. And remember, what works for one person does not necessarily work for another.

Once you stabilize, it's not unusual for you to reduce your dose a few weeks down the road to the lowest dose necessary that you'll need for maintenance.

I know you're nervous, but try to relax and not over-think things. As for building up your stock of opiates, well, do you really, REALLY want to make this step? Really want to change your life? If you do, then don't go get any more opiates. It's normal to be very afraid of your induction. But chances are it will go smoothly and you'll come home feeling much better.

Good luck. And remember, what you're feeling right now is normal. Almost everyone in your position gets this nervous. It will be ok. :)

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 Post subject: Ok
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:03 pm 
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Ok I will try to stop stressing because I know that is doing me no good. Thanks for responding everyone! That was a good suggestion to write a note for my boyfriend to take with him giving him permission to pick up my Rx. Even though I know he probably won't need it, at least it will make my obsessive self feel better! I am not going to go get more pills, I guess old habits die hard and that was running through my mind as I was seeing the # of pills I had in my bottle go down to almost nothing now. I will post when I get home on Saturday morning from my induction to tell how it went. Thanks again for all the reassurance. It helps talking to people who have actually been ON the subs!!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:56 pm 
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taurus- i took 160mgs of oxycontin and 60mgs of morphine 12 hrs before may first dose of suboxone and never had any kind of a bad reaction. i think you should just take whatever dose that your doctor wants you to take, he/she knows what they are doing. i also think that you should wait a few months before you worry about tapering off. you will be so happy not to be on the hunt for pills every day and be able to think alot more positivly about your future. follow your doctors orders and get ready to get back to your life. good luck to you!


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 Post subject: In Agreement
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:01 am 
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Taurus, you've gotten some really good feedback from those who have walked the road before you. Stop with the mind taking you over and just chill.

I too was taking around 16-18 per day along with some Tramadol. Took my usual large dose at 7pm the night before and my appt. wasn't until 4:00pm the next day. The w/d's really didn't feel bad at all until it got close to my appt., so don't sweat it. For some weird reason we addicts obsess over a little discomfort we get stopping opiates. It's never as bad as my mind has made it out to be but I tend to forget that.

And same thing for me having to go get my Suboxone. Once the Dr. saw me, he wrote a script for a small amount of Sub and I had to go to the pharmacy and wait for it to be filled. Talk about ants in the pants! Buy the time I got back and was induced it was close to 5:30 and I wasn't feeling all that well. The Sub worked great with the exception of him giving me too much. (32mgs) Still not bad though and I tapered down fairly quick.

Try to stop the mental obsession and just go with the flow. We all ended up doing alright and I rarely see posts of negative inductions so give it a rest.

You'll do great if you can turn off your brain!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:55 pm 
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I am 6 days til my target date and totally understand your worries. I have the same. I do have one question. One person said it was great except they started at 32 mg and was too strong. How did you know that? Did you feel baD LIKE NAUSEA, ETC?


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 Post subject: To irish
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:33 pm 
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My induction day i didnt feel like I wanted, I was still a little uncomfortable so I decided what i needed was another 8mg. Waited an hour more and took another 8mg. I felt very lethargic, i was cold, its almost like a withdrawal sensation...basically just remember that subs are a very potent drug. I was long term heroin/ methadone addict and i only need 4 mg/ day. Less is more. Its lierally the exact phylosiphy I used to live by but its true. You should read some of dr. Junig's articles especially the one about "ceiling effect".


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 Post subject: Appt
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Hi All, I just got home a little while ago from my induction appt. I am so relieved...I was so paranoid about going into PW's so I only took a quarter of what I usually take yesterday, with my last pill being 17 hours before my appt. My doctor said I could've taken more, but I wanted to be on the safe side. So I was feeling pretty crappy...wanted to crawl out of my skin, but not quite as bad as I have felt in the past when I ran out of pills, and that was an even longer period of time. Kinda weird,,,maybe because I knew I would have relief soon and wasn't stressing on not being able to find any. So I was laying in the doctor's office and within 10 minutes of taking the film I felt better. It's been 1.5 hrs now and I feel a little woozy, but I haven't got the nausea that I was afraid of after hearing some people say that they were puking within 2 hours of taking their first sub dose. I told the doctor I was afraid of this so she just gave me 1/2 strip, which I took, then she gave me another half about 15 minutes later. I took it right out of my mouth as soon as she turned around because of my paranoia. I just figured I can take another half at home if I wasn't completely relieved in a couple hours. But it seems like the 4mg did the trick! I feel totally fine. Soooo glad this anxiety is over! Yay for me!!! Thanks everyone for helping me stay sane during the last week.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:55 pm 
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Hooray for Taurus!!!

Suboxone is pretty amazing, isn't it.

I'm glad you were able to start out on a lower dose, no need in taking more than your body needs.

I'm glad everything went smooth for ya.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:06 pm 
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YAY!!! I'm so happy for you :D When is your next dose? What is your prescription for?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Dr gave me 8mg film. Enough for 3 times a day for the next 2 weeks til my follow up appt. She said just take as needed, and that I'd probably only need it 2x per day. I'm not sure when my next dose is. Do I just wait until I start feeling yucky? I'm still very energized and it's been 6 hours. Maybe I won't even need another dose tonight? I know I definitely won't need to take 8mg 3x a day. I was thinking maybe 4mg twice a day. I guess I'll see how it goes and stockpile for now.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:59 pm 
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personally I would take 4 mg twice a day. I do not know your history, but that would be a total of 8 mg a day and that is not HUGE by any means. I think you "might" could play around a bit w/ dosing if you truly feel fine, maybe even trying 2mg. for your evening dose. (although 4mg. is consedered a "ceiling dose" which has all your receptors saturated w/ bupe thus avoiding WD & cravings) I certainly think it is doable. But to be safe I would definitely take your second (evening) dose (whatever mg. you decide) because you do not want to wake up in WD. Let us know. Hopefully you will get more advise as I am no expert, just with my own experience.


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