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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:40 pm 
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9:30pm Wednesday

My wife and I are starting a suboxone "detox" from H! I wanted to keep a running log of how we are doing and what we are feeling. We have done this before and it DEFINITELY made the transition to sobriety smoother and more bearable than cold turkey. But we relapsed in 8 days. As soon as we got back from the trip we were going to kick on, we used immediately. THe 9 hour plane trip got to both of us and all we coud think about (with a pocket full of money) was using.

This time we have ourselves isolated and without any money for 2 weeks. Food and necessities are taken care of. We obtained the pills off the street. Don't have insurance right now and the doctors we paid money to see either took our money and then said they don't do suboxone or refused us as soon as they heard we were opiate dependent and said we need in-patient rehab. Well that costs too much money! We tried it but they have a rule against accepting husband and wives, so one of us went and the other was left to themselves. Not good. We work better together we've found. We can also be the worst antagonists for each other at the same time. But this time we both want sobriety too badly to fail!

Ok, been without now for 8 hrs. Sweating badly but no pain yet. A little yawning but it may just be late. Watery eyes starting but hey, I'm staring at a computer! We had a fairly high dependancy of H. I weigh 210 and my wife is 110. I was up to 5-7 bags per dose and my wife was 3-5 bags per 3-7 times a day. Depending on availability/money. Good stuff we're talking about here. So this is alot to be coming off! Sure folks do more but we're not chippies is what I'm saying. Solid use for about 4 years/ Pill build up for both of us 4 years before that. I'm not lying to prove anything either. I would have liked to have heard a story going into this of someone in a similar situation so... here's mine!

We're waiting 24 hours to take first 8 mg pill of suboxone. The last time we tried this I went to soon and got withdrawals immediately! I started after about 9 hrs' without. We wont make that mistake this time! We will post again tomorrow morning before suboxone.

-rowjimmyro


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:15 pm 
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Check out my thread and what would you do? Good luck, I was addicted to a needle here in south florida for years. H is a tough withdrawl. How long should I wait before i take my dose given my situation?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:26 pm 
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My suggestion is that you need to find more support. Just depriving yourself of human contact and money isn't going to do it because eventually you have to have some money in your pocket and talk to people. It is like how people sometimes move to kick. Eventually, it back-fires because you are so subconsciously hooked on the drug that you are looking for it and don't even know it.

I would suggest that you both start going to meetings as well. You don't have to tell the people at the meetings that you are on Suboxone. I never did. Just assume your date of sobriety is the day after the last time you used heroin.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:27 pm 
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hi rowjimmyro and bsstambaugh -

Here's wishing you the best!

rowjimmyro, it sounds like you are going this on your own and fast to taper off. My hat is off to you and best of luck! Sounds like you know the 'precipitated' withdrawl that can happen if you take suboxone too quickly before withdrawals are medium/moderate.

Maybe you can answer bsstambaugh's question. Myself, and setmefree have suggested 24 hours, then start suboxone. Is that your plan? I was on 80-100mg's of oxycodone a day (short acting) - waited 24 hours and suboxone was like a dream come true. within 2 hours of starting suboxone I felt 'normal' not high.

Again, since you are pushed into a corner with you and your wife - no outpatient treatment, here's wishing you well. I don't know if I could do it without support of a Doctor, and counseling. I tried the cold turkey method (who hasn't?) without 12 steps, and just trying to 'tough it out' ... That left me vulnerable when my triggers hit - just wanting more, nice warm numb. Never tried it with suboxone on my own (sorry, can't help there).

Keep us posted, I'm interested, caring, and praying.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:39 am 
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I've been in your position before, and while i agree you need a doctor and some sort of support system (other than each other) sometimes you gotta work with what you got. As far as kicking H goes i am very familiar with it. The shortest amount of time i have waited and had suboxone work correctly is 18 hours, however i tend to go by the rule of 24 hours or more. Considering the amount that you are using you will probably be fairly sick after about 24 hours and the suboxone should work just fine. I've found that the longer I wait the better as far as inducing suboxone. Are you guys doing a five/seven day detox? I wish you guys luck and hopefully this will get you guys going in the right direction.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:00 am 
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rowjimmyro-
Welcome to the site. I know how it feels to want off the opiate merry-go-round so badly, that you try every method you can think of, but I also know that it is almost impossible to do it alone or with another opiate dependent person at your side.You say you both want to be clean so bad that failure is not an option, but what if I told you that the psychological damage from the opiates is making it nearly impossible for the two of you to make it on your own? I am not trying to call you out as being weak, I am simply telling you that there are forces at work that are much stronger than sheer will power.
You talk as though you have tried it all and this is your only option, but do you truthfully admit you gave your past efforts all that was required? As far as separating a couple for treatment, well that is because you guys will get each other high before you keep each other clean. You know each other so well and feed off each other's addiction- it is just the nature of the beast.
For the amount of Heroin you both were using, Suboxone may not provide enough relief, have you ever looked into Methadone maintenance, at least for now til you are stable and can taper down and switch to Suboxone? It is something you should seriously consider!

Ultimately you are going to do what you feel is best, but my words come from experience and education.The only thing I want is for the two of you to recover and stay clean and have a better quality of life.That is why I am on here.The one thing we share is wanting the nightmare to end.I am proud to say it has been over 2 years since I last touched a regular opiate, and it took a very strong foundation to get me here. Don't deny you or your wife of that miracle, and if you need some help finding affordable treatment in your area, let us know!! Take Care and hope to hear from you soon!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:40 pm 
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I feel i'm in the same boat doing it on my own and being my own doctor trying to figure out how much suboxone to do ?
I only waited 13 hours after my last shot of 90mg of roxie's. I was up to as much as 30-35 roxie 30mg a day along with 80mg Oxy's and it all started from my back injury, This is my first day starting soboxone so good luck to all and myself.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:13 pm 
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So what happened when you waited 13 hours aftet atking that much Roxie? Did it work or did it kick you in to withdrawl?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:22 pm 
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bsstambaugh wrote:
So what happened when you waited 13 hours aftet atking that much Roxie? Did it work or did it kick you in to withdrawl?


Now that i think about it, it was 4 o'clock yesterday i took it and the soboxone around 9 this morning
so about 17 hours. The reson i went ahead with the Sobox. is i could't stop sneezing this morning and thought i was withdrawing, started with one 8mg and still felt funny so took another half and only have a little bit of the chills right now.

Bsstambaugh I'm also in S. Florida and it's a beautiful day out but don't think i can enjoy it today.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:14 pm 
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I haver found that sitting in the sun is the best thing for those chills. Be careful, dont get yourself hung up with another huge addiction with too much suboxen. Sometimes our head tells us we need more than we think. I can't tell you enough how much you need a recovery program.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:21 am 
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RowJimmy, I'm with Shel on this one - that's a lotta dope you are on! You will probably be in pain for a few days before the Suboxone starts to work on you. I was stuffing half a gram per day of Tar up my nose before I went for help. When I went to detox the Doc had me wait 84 hours before giving me the Sub. They sent me off with a script for Phenobarb, Clonidine, Promethazine, IB800, and one other med I can't remember. When I went back to the office for the second visit (the induction), I was a skin-wrapped skeleton and it took 24mg for three days to set me straight. After that, 8mg/day was good. You might need to do the Methadone thing at first then switch to Sub later.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:49 pm 
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Rowjimmy i hope you and your wife are hanging in there ? I just wonder when i
don't see any post from them. I'm going post everyday till i'm free of the nightmare
i put myself thru, I'm 47 yrs old and for most of my life i battled with Cocaine addiction
started snorting then shoting and smoking it, well clean from cocaine 4 years now and got involed
with pain meds because of back surgery and was left paralized from waist down when i was 16 yrs. old
I can walk now but at 43 started to get bad back pain when someone told me about a doctor for
pain meds, and with my addictive personallty it did't take long for my use to get worse.
In my 2nd day of soboxone and i think that in a few days i will start cutting down on my dosage.
Good luck to everyone.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:42 pm 
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Faeked wrote:
RowJimmy, I'm with Shel on this one - that's a lotta dope you are on! You will probably be in pain for a few days before the Suboxone starts to work on you. I was stuffing half a gram per day of Tar up my nose before I went for help. When I went to detox the Doc had me wait 84 hours before giving me the Sub. They sent me off with a script for Phenobarb, Clonidine, Promethazine, IB800, and one other med I can't remember. When I went back to the office for the second visit (the induction), I was a skin-wrapped skeleton and it took 24mg for three days to set me straight. After that, 8mg/day was good. You might need to do the Methadone thing at first then switch to Sub later.


They made you wait 84 hours? And you were on heroin? You were probably half-way through detox by then! I don't really see their point in that.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:07 pm 
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jackolantern wrote:
Faeked wrote:
RowJimmy, I'm with Shel on this one - that's a lotta dope you are on! You will probably be in pain for a few days before the Suboxone starts to work on you. I was stuffing half a gram per day of Tar up my nose before I went for help. When I went to detox the Doc had me wait 84 hours before giving me the Sub. They sent me off with a script for Phenobarb, Clonidine, Promethazine, IB800, and one other med I can't remember. When I went back to the office for the second visit (the induction), I was a skin-wrapped skeleton and it took 24mg for three days to set me straight. After that, 8mg/day was good. You might need to do the Methadone thing at first then switch to Sub later.


They made you wait 84 hours? And you were on heroin? You were probably half-way through detox by then! I don't really see their point in that.


I would have been climbing the walls at 84 hours.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:02 am 
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Yup, amazingly the meds helped. I was a zombie though... liquids coming out of every orifice lol. Lost 16 pounds in those three days, couldn't keep anything down not even a couple sips of water. However, I did not get any restless legs or twitches or anything of the sort. I slept through the majority of it, err... more so like hallucinated dream-like states. Anyway... yea I realized that later I could have just toughed it out and I would have been golden. The Sub was fantastic though. Once it broke through and filled up my receptors it was all good. After that, I felt great! I think maybe they make you ride it out like that to "imprint" what a detox feels like before they give you your comfort meds lol. Who knows?!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:40 pm 
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If I understand what you were saying Faeked the reason people have to go through some withdrawal for awhile before starting Suboxone is because of how Suboxone (buprenorphine) works if it's taken too soon after another opiate/opiod it will cause very severe precipitated withdrawal which I haven't experienced but I'm told it's alot worse than regualr withdrawal and well I don't even want to imagine what that's like. 4mgs of Suboxone and above = around 30-40mgs of methadone so you have to have less than or the equivalent amount of opiates in your system when you start the medication or you end up in precipitated withdrawal. Hope that helps while some people can be overly cruel to addicts I know the majority of doctors who treat opiate addicts have Suboxone patients wait so many hours or days to avoid their patients experiencing precipiated withdrawal and it's not just them wanting to make you go through the pain of withdrawal but rather it's to make sure you don't experience even worse withdrawal.

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