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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:43 pm 
Nah I dont think you started a whole issue with what you said, I agree with alot of the points you made. I definitely dont think it would be fair for healthcare to be completely free (although it would be awesome :) ) but I dont think the cost should be so astronomical. I mean suboxone treatment is just outrageous these people know that most addicts dont have much if any money at all and the majority of insurance companys dont cover suboxone so you can tell that the only thing they are thinking about with this is profiting off of misery. A pill of suboxone should not cost anymore than like 2$ and I dont think a doctor visit should cost anymore than 50$ and that would be more than fair if you ask me. If the montly visit lasted longer than 5 minutes and involved more than just getting a prescription and then getting sent on your way maybe the cost would be a little more justified but to me paying like 20$ a minute seems a little extreme. In the R&B pamphlet it says there are supposed to run blood tests and other tests to make sure your liver is reacting ok to the subs and all that but that has never been done for me and I bet its never been done for anyone else on sub either. I like my doc alot tho and his monthly fee isnt that bad compared to some that Ive heard I have to pay around 80$ a visit and my doc is a great guy so i guess its worth it. Getting your health taken care of seems like its only available to the rich and its not realy fair, struggling people need care too, you mentioned dentists in your post omg they are the worst, it costs like over a 100$ to get one cavity drilled and filled in and that takes all of 15 minutes. That is just way to much money and realy unfair. They could charge way less than that and still do fine but they are greedy it makes me sick.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:51 pm 
I certainly agree that we are "supposed" to get blood work or something done to make sure everything is working properly. My doctor even mentioned this in the beginning but i have yet to get it done and its been 20 months. The reason they havent done it is because it cost them money to have it done. Honestly its pretty bad the way addicts are treated, or i guess i should say mistreated. We are looked down upon as if we are lesser than.

I would also agree that the prices some of these doctors charge are pretty outrageous. I mean, the medicine alone cost so freakin much on top of the visit. I will say that im not speaking for myself because i am fortunate enough to have insurance. For the first year i did not though and i payed $72 for the visit and $583 for the med. I am mostly speaking out in the defense of the people who dont have insurance and even for the people who do but dont have doctors who accept it. Thats hard to comprehend as well. How can a doctor say he doesnt except insurance for addiction treatment? Im guessing thats what they say. Luckily mine does except insurance. But if my thinking is correct, some doctors will except insurance for everything except addiction treatment. Thats crazy!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:38 pm 
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I used to have drug screens that were a "quickie test" they did at the doc's office. Any time something showed up (and I had strange results: sudafed causing me to test positive for amphetamines, etc) they would send the sample for verification. I think your best argument, though, would be that you told them going in that you took ambien. Perhaps they didn't pay attention, but that wasn't your fault. Even in the worst situations....booting someone for one failed drug test sounds unethical. Did you have some sort of contract? I never did, but I know folks who have.

Whatever happens, keep your cool and try to have a rational discussion.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:28 am 
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I understand that healthcare is a business and no different then all the things you listed. I also agree that the doctor's have bills and have to pay the staff. I'm just saying i think things need to change, i dont know how but is it fair that if you need treatment for something but cannot afford it then what? Im also a type 1 diabetic and my monthly copays run about 150 a month. If for any reason i cannot pay the copay on my insulin then i do not get it..... period. If i didnt have insurance that 150 copays would be about 1200.... which is just crazy. Again i dont knoow what should be done or what can be but both sides of the story have valid points. As for my current issue and problem i cant wait to talk to the doctor tomorrow. It was a very good point someone brought up here about being on 3 cns depressants but he was aware of that the whole time. So i dont know, i just hope he is honest with me and actually does call me back.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:28 am 
Even though your taking 3 CNS depressants it doesnt matter at this point because he knew about them from the start. Had he not known and all the sudden they show up, then their would be an issue. He knew about them from the start therfor he cannot just change his mind as to wether he is ok with it or not. Even if he did change his mind, he has to allow you a medical taper. Not kick you out all the sudden. I believe your being taken advantage of. I think this doctor believes your just gonna go on your merry way an that will be that. As i've already said, i would stand up at this point and fight this one out to the end. The bottom line here is, you said the doctor knew about the ambien the whole time therfor he CANNOT all the sudden kick you out of the program. I hope you let us know how it goes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:29 am 
Even though your taking 3 CNS depressants it doesnt matter at this point because he knew about them from the start. Had he not known and all the sudden they show up, then their would be an issue. He knew about them from the start therfor he cannot just change his mind as to wether he is ok with it or not. Even if he did change his mind, he has to allow you a medical taper. Not kick you out all the sudden. I believe your being taken advantage of. I think this doctor believes your just gonna go on your merry way an that will be that. As i've already said, i would stand up at this point and fight this one out to the end. The bottom line here is, you said the doctor knew about the ambien the whole time therfor he CANNOT all the sudden kick you out of the program. I hope you let us know how it goes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Judging by what Dr. J just said in another post about WI Medicaid, I'm thinking that the insurance payment IS the issue. Our healthcare system is in a truly frightening state. Anyway, you said you just got a script for 4 x 30 8mg strips. That's a big script. I'm not sure what your dose is, but I would use it as sparingly as possible until you find out if you have to find another doc.
I hope your doc decides to do the right thing. Good luck.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:51 pm 
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I really and truly do understand that insurance is a business just like any other and sufficient profits must be made or the incentive for offering won't exist. When I consider the other 'businesses' the government runs, I don't think I want them running health care. However, here's what I don't get. Many things that are not covered can cause problems that will end up being more expensive in the long run. For instance, many companies do not cover Sub, which I know in at least some cases leads people to quit taking it. They are then put at risk for a whole host of horrible problems. What if they relapse and overdose and are hospitalized? Insurance will cover the hospital bills, which could be astronomical. The Sub would have been much cheaper and it's not a big stretch to say that denying Suboxone could lead to relapse and overdose! My insurance would only cover a 5-day alcohol detox but zero aftercare. So, I didn't get to go to the month long day program where you really learn how to stay sober after you are done detoxing. As a result, I ended up detoxing in that hospital 5 friggin' times!! In the end, it cost them much more than it would have if they'd covered one month of aftercare.

As far as insulin and diabetes...AHHH! It irritates the hell out of me that someone thinks it's a good business plan to do anything other than make it very affordable for people to get their insulin. The effects of not managing diabetes are well-known and are severe. AND severely costly. Why not manage these things well from the start? It would be much more cost-effective, IMO.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:03 pm 
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I am not taking up for docs but I got two bloodworks done from a previous doctor. One in the begining and one about a year later. But just an idea maybe they want that new patient for the down payment. I had a 400 dollar down payment with insurance in louisville. It would have been 900 without insurance. Ripoff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:09 pm 
Goodlord Wade!! $900??!! Thats insane!! Mine was 180 with no insurance. And im not at all sayin ah ha i got a better deal than you. Im just saying this is a huge difference. My goodness thats unreal!! Was the doctor any good? He must be given everybody suboxone made of gold or something!! lol. I believe thats the highest price i've heard yet.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:47 pm 
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ok everyone, took a while (of course) but he called me back himself. he has told me that due to the ambien being in me AS WELL as the xanax (both showed or so he says) that he no longer wishes to have me as a patient. he says he asked me when i had my first visit NOT to take the ambien----which by no means did he say that as ive been on both for a long time and would have easily given up the ambien as i only use it 1-2x a week anyway. he told me he WILL provide me 1 refill on the medication if i need it. which gives me a sense of relief at least. i asked him flat out about the money and he denied it being a factor. so all in all not much i can do i guess, he has the right to treat who ever he wants i guess? anyway i have called around and have an appt with a new doc who also takes insurance in 2 weeks (35 miles away). im planning on just being honest and telling exactly what happened?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:27 pm 
What a jerk!! Thats still rediculous no matter how you look at it just because of the fact that he knew the whole time. He admitted he knew by saying he told you not to take it the very first appt. So, he either did NOT say that and is lying, or he did and your lying which i do not believe you to be lying. He his covering his ass by offering you that one refill just so he can say that he medically tapered you. Thats bullshit and im sure everyone will agree!! He has the right to treat whoever he wants but damned if he can just change his mind and drop somebody. I would still file a complaint or something. He excepted that you were taking ambien and xanax in the beginning so he could make that money off of you for however long you've been seeing him and now hes making up bullshit so he can drop you. I am pissed at this and its doesnt have anything to do with me. Sorry but this guy is not worth having anyways. I feel sorry for anyone who has him for a doctor. I would be up their telling people what he did lol. Maybe they wouldnt choose him as a doctor. And if your hell bent on telling this new doctor the whole truth, i would make sure you tell him you are willing to stop the ambien and xanax or else he may not treat you right off the bat. If he is ok with you taking the ambien and xanax you better make damn sure its documented cuz you dont want a repeat of this shit. Sorry for the language but my anger is a bit high with this one. I hope things work out for you!! Glad you came back to let us know!! Have a great day!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:58 pm 
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lifesaver...wow, i almost think you are more angry then i am. yea he did admit to knowing but in his own admission he also stated that he told me not to take the ambien....which i assure you if he told me that i'd remember as its really not a big deal, advil pm works almost as good for me. i didnt look at the refill the way you are however, i wonder if that is why he is doing it?? i hope in the end i dont even need it and i hope the new doc accepts me WITH the xanax because i do really need that. as for the ambien as of now that is stopped so i wont run into this again. thanks everyone.....i'll post how the new doc goes in 2 weeks.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:05 pm 
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I'm glad things turned out well for you although it was a rough struggle there for you.

This thread may end here so I just want you & others to be sure and read my post "learning the hard way" under "still messing around."

Careful with the Ambien.

Love, Queenie


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:14 pm 
I think i may be a bit more angry as well lol. I just hate when people get taken advantage of because it happens too many times. Its good that you were able to at least eliminate the ambien. I know my doctor prescribes me klonopin at a lower dose but i had been taking klonopin for 3 years before sub treatment. Hopefully it will work out as needed with the new doctor. This old doctor just screwed you big time!! Used you for your money, then decided your money wasnt enough so it was time to get that new entry fee from someone else an kicked you to the curb. Thats bullshit!! Unfortunately, i dont see much that can be done as this doctor has found a way to cover his grounds as to why he dismissed you. He will just say he told you not to take the ambien which will make it his word against yours. It doesnt take a genius to figure out who they will believe. They sure as hell arent gonna believe the addict. Sorry to hear this happend to you!! Hope it works out though!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:38 pm 
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I wonder how many folks get lulled into a false sense of security by the phrase "non-narcotic"? I immediately thought it inappropriate in reference to a sleep med because, to me, narcotic refers to opioids. So...I looked it up:

"narcotic |närˈkätik|
noun
a drug or other substance affecting mood or behavior and sold for nonmedical purposes, esp. an illegal one.
• Medicine: a drug that relieves pain and induces drowsiness, stupor, or insensibility."

*Oxford Dictionary

I checked online and found tons of horror stories, often blaming doctors for prescribing this "dangerous drug inappropriately". We tend to believe all sorts of stuff that isn't true: like the FDA protects us from unsafe drugs....or that it is up to our doctors to know what (or what not) to give us....or even that we'll be fine as long as we take meds "as directed". But aren't each and every one of us responsible for *everything* we place in our mouths?

Personally, taking ambien "as directed" seems benign. My problem is, as an addict I have the tendency to direct myself. Hell, I have direcred myself to take 50-60 ambiens in one day; 10 or more Quaaludes (with beer of course). I could give many such examples.

I guess the moral of my little tale is that: when I look to myself for verification of any decisions I'm about to make that concern mood-altering substances.....I'm most likely in deep shit!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:33 pm 
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I just want to chime in about the blood tests. I've been with my same doctor for 4 years now. He is pretty good I guess, but I do get the usual 5 minute visit, script and bye bye.

My visits were every 3 months, then he lowered that to every 2 months for some reason which I am afraid to ask him lol. I have to pee into a cup every visit, but he only runs a test on it about every 2-3 visits or so, mostly to save me money I think since I have no insurance. My visits are 120 dollars and the pee test is 100 dollars.

He DOES give me a blood test for liver function about once a year, I think I have had 3 of these tests in the 4 years I've been a patient. When the results come back he does go over them with me. The test costs 100 bucks.

So I don't know about you guys, but my doctor does give me liver function tests. I'm not sure if they are supposed to be given more often, but I do get them.


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 Post subject: OMG!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:51 pm 
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moman wrote:
I wonder how many folks get lulled into a false sense of security by the phrase "non-narcotic"? I immediately thought it inappropriate in reference to a sleep med because, to me, narcotic refers to opioids. So...I looked it up:

"narcotic |närˈkätik|
noun
a drug or other substance affecting mood or behavior and sold for nonmedical purposes, esp. an illegal one.
• Medicine: a drug that relieves pain and induces drowsiness, stupor, or insensibility."

*Oxford Dictionary

I checked online and found tons of horror stories, often blaming doctors for prescribing this "dangerous drug inappropriately". We tend to believe all sorts of stuff that isn't true: like the FDA protects us from unsafe drugs....or that it is up to our doctors to know what (or what not) to give us....or even that we'll be fine as long as we take meds "as directed". But aren't each and every one of us responsible for *everything* we place in our mouths?

Personally, taking ambien "as directed" seems benign. My problem is, as an addict I have the tendency to direct myself. Hell, I have direcred myself to take 50-60 ambiens in one day; 10 or more Quaaludes (with beer of course). I could give many such examples.

I guess the moral of my little tale is that: when I look to myself for verification of any decisions I'm about to make that concern mood-altering substances.....I'm most likely in deep shit!


Are you serious? Did you REALLY take that many Ambiens in one day?? I think you set a world record! :shock: And I've always wondered what in the heck are Quaaludes? Where are they? I've heard so many "we used to do Qualuudes" stories from my older friends but I've never come across any Quaaludes. (Hey, that's a good Scrabble word. I wonder if my Scrabble app would accept it or not. But that's what you do when you have too many 'a's. :wink: )

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:33 pm 
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I'm sure that is no record. Quaalude was a name brand for methaqualone, the former wouldn't play in a Scrabble game, and the latter would be near-impossible to pull off. Used to eat them like candy (chased with beer), but there were so many deaths, they were pulled from the market. Funny, I never had a blackout from 'ludes or barbs....but ambien and benzos definitely caused them!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:27 pm 
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Just thought I'd toss this out there, for what it's worth: I've been on suboxone since December 2008. I currently take 7mg per day, on my way down to (hopefully) 4mg where I plan on remaining indefinitely.

I take ambien fairly regularly. I'd say at least twice or three times each week. My sub doctor knows about it and has absolutely no problem with it.


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