It is currently Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:45 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:50 am 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:29 am
Posts: 2
Hi this is my first time posting on the forum and I'm hoping that some of you here will be able to help me kick this Heroin addiction. I've only been using for about a month and before that I was stable on 2mg a day of suboxone for the last 6 years. Needless to say I want off of it now but cant seem to get back on the sub. I tried to quit this weekend but failed. Did my last hit of heroin(injected) on Saturday at 10am. After 17 hours at 3am Sunday I had a 26 on the Cows sheet and felt awful so I started small on the sub at about 1 1/2mg's. It throw me into precipitated withdrawals. It lasted for hours like until 10am when i decided to take 2 more mg's of suboxone. The suboxone once again made my withdrawals worse I felt like i was going to die and once again they never subsided I just continues to withdrawal until 10pm sunday when I took 2 more mg's. Once again it didn't make me feel any better. This morning Monday at 9am I gave up and went to my dealer and used. I just couldn't bring myself to take more subonxe. I had been so sick the last 47 hours I just couldn't do it any more. Now I am overwhelmed with regret wishing I tried the sub again this morning and feeling like those 48 hours of hell where for nothing. I was wondering if its possible there was methadone cut into my heroin. I have been doing about 10-12 bags a day of very strong stuff. should I try to taper before trying again maybe? or try to wait 24 hours from now and give it another shot.someone please help me I'm feeling very low and helpless right now. I also took so xanax during the withdrawals 2mg's over the 48 hours .5mgs at a time it seemed to help early on before I took the sub but not after the Precipitated withdrawals started.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:50 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:40 pm
Posts: 627
Welcome NN,

Welcome welcome here. Glad you know to get back on bup!! I wonder if your H also included fentanyl, another long acting opiate, which was my doc. Others will come along but I know you are feeling crumby so just wanted to send you BIG encouragement to try induction again. I went to DR J's Talkzone and copied some induction info for you.

PWs "depends on the person’s opioid tolerance, and on the specific opioid that the person has been taking. and will occur if 1) there is agonist binding at the mu receptor, or 2. There is very high opioid tolerance. The best response to precipitated withdrawal is to take the prescribed dose of Suboxone/buprenorphine each day, without trying to overcome the symptoms by taking more of an agonist or extra Suboxone."

"If you have PW, the most important thing is to FINISH THE INDUCTION! Complete the dosing of Suboxone, as quickly as possible—take the full 8 or 16 mg. If you stop the induction early, after only 4 mg, you will likely end up using later in the day to try to overcome the block. That gets real dangerous, and only prolongs the misery– and in a few days when you finally have the Suboxone out of your body you will still be using. On the other hand, if you complete the dosing of Suboxone– take the full induction dose of 8 to 16 mg– you will be at a place where no amount of using will overcome the block (so don’t even try!). Try to deal with the withdrawal in the usual manner (clonidine, immodium, warm bath) and the next morning take another 16 mg dose of Suboxone. Keep dosing each morning—DON’T mess with multiple daily doses as they won’t help and they can potentially make it worse (if you take very large doses of Suboxone it becomes a pure antagonist). If you just keep dosing 16 mg per day each morning, by day two you will be much better, by day three you will be 90% better, and by day 4 you will be out of withdrawal. It’s fast—unless you play with it."

Imo, the longer acting H and your high tolerance combined with a too short time of 17hrs to induce and with only 5 1/2 mgs of bup is likely what happened.

Also, wondering about your relapse to H this last month - if your prior 2mg bup dose was not enough? Or ideas what happened? a stressful life event? Are you in a bup program? Any recovery or changing your life type work going on? Pelican

_________________
Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:05 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:29 am
Posts: 2
Hi thank you for your response. i relapsed after getting the flu followed by bronchitis and was prescribed hydrocodone cough syrup for it. After that ran out I bought some heroin from a friend and from there it has been down hill. I guess maybe this time I will try and wait at least 24 hours and take a larger dose then. I was just hesitant to do that because before when I did I felt the precipitated was even worse. I wish I hadn't broke down and used.. I now have to start all over. ughh. I was taking alot of baths before I relapse again.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:51 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2310
Location: Tennessee
Hey Needing,

I agree with Pelican, u probably didn't wait long enough before taking the sub. I was using large doses of oxycodone and I waited 32hrs and my induction was 100% positive with almost instant relief. I know heroin is much stronger and since u described it as very potent, 17hrs was absolutely not enough time. I know how horrible it is having to sit around in withdrawal just waiting until u can start the sub process, it sucks. But u have to wait it out or the pw will get ya. That's the thing about sub, u gotta be ready to wait as long as u have to in order for everything to go right. I don't think ppl who aren't addicts even have a clue what we go through just to start this treatment. I've never done heroin but I'm sure the withdrawal is awful! I know it's extremely tempting to take the sub early, but try ur very hardest to wait it out and you'll be so happy u did. U can do this because u are so worth it :)

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:52 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:14 pm
Posts: 269
Location: Petoskey, MI
Hi! Like I've been telling others in your situation and what I dealt with, is your tolerance may be higher than before when you had no problem switching. Doctors suggest waiting long enough and trying to lower tolerance as much as possible for an easy transition. It will still work, but it takes a few days of not feeling well while the buprenorphine knocks your tolerance down,.

_________________
PUGS NOT DRUGS


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:37 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:40 pm
Posts: 420
Rather than time since last dose you are better off using the COWS. It can be hard to assess yourself because some of the factors are subjective. If you get to a '16' or better you should be good to induce. If you do have PW, power through, it will subside in a few hours. (See Dr. J's talkzone for more on PW)
https://www.drugabuse.gov/sites/default ... lScale.pdf


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:07 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2310
Location: Tennessee
I think it's tricky doing an induction at home without the dr or nurses supervision. Just looking bk at how I was during my induction (which was done in the doctors office) I think if I'd been able to do it at home, I'd have done it way too soon. I think I'd have either caved or talked myself into thinking I was worse than I actually was. I know not everyone is like that and I know others are fine doing it at home, but ppl like myself, I can see how it'd be so difficult doing it at home at ur own mercy. Until I started coming to this forum, I didn't know ppl were allowed to do inductions at home.

It's something that's interesting to me, how each person's journey is different. But I do think that ppl who're allowed to induct at home can possibly make the mistake of doing it a bit too early causing pw....or at least I bet I would have because I'm a huge wimp when it comes to withdrawal. Another thing though is a lot of ppl don't have a sub dr and of course they'll be on their own. It's something I've thought about in the past, how each dr has their different ways, and in the beginning when I first started sub I automatically thought everyone did it the same way lol. Like I said before, this forum has taught me so very much :)

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:49 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:14 pm
Posts: 269
Location: Petoskey, MI
Right on Jennjenn!

_________________
PUGS NOT DRUGS


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:03 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:18 pm
Posts: 66
It's unfortunate that suboxone is so hard to induce. I don't understand why even though it has been explained to me many times. I wish it were easier to make the transition from active addiction to being on this medication. It's so weird. When I was a strung out on heroin or whatever opiate I was on at the time, if I didn't have anything at least I could take a methadone pill or drink and be instantly relieved of the misery of WD's. Not so with subxone. It's like you have to be in such extreme WD's before it will work I mean, who can sit in that kind of pain? We wouldn't be addicts if we could sit there in misery and wait patiently for the perfect hour.

I'm not knocking the sub, not intentionally anyway. I mean, I'm so glad I was finally able to make the jump from methadone to sub but it nearly killed me and I don't get why it has to be that hard. It's a great drug once you make it through the induction but I wish they would come up with a formula that would make it easier. We have a hard enough time as it is just being addicts.

I like the way it feels being on subxone more than methadone. I will say that. It's a much lighter medication and I'm not constipated the way methadone had me. It's worth the effort to get here. I just wish it weren't so difficult. Good luck and keep trying. It's definitely worth it!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group