It is currently Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:00 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:26 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 50
I've been reading a fair amount lately about the neuropharmacology of opioids in certain types of depression, and in schizophrenia. Kappa receptor antagonists have been observed to act as antidepressants and anxiolytics. I just decided to google "suboxone kappa antagonist" and was stunned to find, among other things; "In summary, buprenorphine Is the most potent kappa receptor antagonist in vivo..."

SO, there's a subset of the population for whom buprenorphine would seem to be an excellent drug, particularly those with comorbid depression and anxiety. It got me to wondering if perhaps such an underlying condition might not predispose certain people to gravitate toward opiate abuse to begin with.

Anyway, do people find that Suboxone acts as an antidepressant and anxiolytic beyond what one would expect from merely cessation of opiate abuse? Is it even possible to make such a distinction?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:45 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Yes, many people find Suboxone to have anti-depressant properties. It's been discussed on this forum a few times. I find your question about certain people possibly having an underlying predisposition to opiate addiction fascinating.

I wonder what Dr. J would say on the subject...?

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:23 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 50
Well, I've read that opiates were once used to treat schizophrenia, but dismissed since the cure proved worse than the disease. Negative symptoms of schizophrenia include anhedonia, lack of interest, lack of affect, etc.... My friend always told me he felt this way, and that the only time he felt like the world mattered was when he was high. I just assumed it was due to the drug. I have to wonder if it's not. Could it be possible that he inadvertently stumbled on a treatment (however dangerous and flawed) for an underlying pathology? I can't help but hope that buprenorphine, properly supervised, might help him feel connected to the world in a way he never did before. I wonder if this could be why some people need to be on bupe forever?

It's all just idle speculation, of course. I am not a doctor (nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night…)


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:28 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
It's definitely an interesting subject. I recall many people on this forum also have issues with depression. I've always suffered from major depression and although I also take an anti-depressant, I know the suboxone helped my overall mood.

I know it's not a cure-all in any sense, but many of us consider it a miracle drug, at least on some levels.

Glad you've joined the forum Xeno, you contribute greatly to the quality and substance of the conversations here.


Melissa

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:36 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 50
Aww, shucks... :oops:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:05 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
SuboxDoc (Doctor J) talked about this subject just about a year ago. Here is the link:

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=148

If the link doesn't work, just search using the site search and "kappa receptors" and you should be able to find it. Sorry to quell your "discovery", but at least you can now read more about it if you are interested.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:36 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 50
Interesting thread. Thanks.

I never for a moment thought that I was the first to think of this. It was a neat little "personal Eureka moment" to have stumbled upon it, though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:21 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:03 pm
Posts: 991
Xeno,

I agree with Hatmaker and you definitely have a positive impact on the quality of the conversation. In my opinion, suboxone is the ONLY thing that has truly helped my depression without intolerable side effects since I was 12 years old. This isn't to say I am always in a great mood on it or don't get depressed because I do. BUT....not like when I am off of it and I was definitely depressed before the opiates. Personally, I am going to take wellbutrin with the suboxone this time because I was having minor depression while on suboxone prior.

In some ways I AM glad I stumbled upon an opiate addiction because had I not, I would still be suffering from severe depression and a drinking problem that doesn't have a lovely drug such as this to help you quit. I am happier on sub than I ever was off of it including my entire childhood. So for some of us I think it is quite possible suboxone proves to be an excellent anti-depressant.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:42 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
I've also said on a different thread here that I'm much happier on Suboxone that I was even pre-addiction. Not just happier, either, but I'm a better person and WAY easier to get along with.
I remember what I was like way before opiates were a problem for me - life was difficult at best. I, too, struggled with major depression my entire adult life. So Suboxone has helped me in more than one way.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:30 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 50
You guys are really getting my hopes up. I really hope this works...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:33 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 164
If subsoxone is the most potent kappa receptor antagonist... wouldn't that mean it doesn't act on the receptors as an agonist does... or have some kind of "cancel out" effect?? Isn't that what antagonists do...

I'm not saying that suboxone doesn't help some people with depression... but I doubt that it is... or will be an accepted prescription drug for depression. I can't imagine any psychiatrist giving a [non addict] patient a subs script as treatment for depression.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:46 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 50
Yes - a receptor antagonist is the opposite of an agonist. For example, the naloxone in Suboxone is a strong antagonist of the mu-opioid receptor. I presume this is why Suboxone will precipitate withdrawal if you're not withdrawing already.

I doubt they'll begin prescribing opiate agonists for depression as well, but they might prescribe antagonists. There is some rat-research out there showing that blockading the kappa receptor can relieve depression and anxiety, mediated by dynorphin (the endogenous peptide that fits the kappa receptor,) which is spoken of in one study as "a key mediator of dysphoria." So dynorphin = dysphoria. Blockading kappa receptors might switch off the dysphoria. Hopefully someone will discover a non-opiate kappa antagonist.

I know I'd sign up to test the first antidysphoriant! :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:22 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:11 am
Posts: 427
Location: Fishers, Indiana
I'd really have to agree Xeno it's certainly hard to explain to a normy but I really did feel like something was always missing before I started using opiates. I was an extremely anxious and depressed kid. We'd have guests over to the house and even at the age of 10 I would still runaway and hide (lol makes me sound pretty functional eh?) Anywho opiates really worked miracles at first. As many of us know it made me feel normal after trying to quit all opiates several times I was back in the perpetual state of depression. Last time I spent nearly 5 months essentially locked in my room after getting out of rehab. I couldn't understand why people were so happy to be clean.... I was glad to not have to worry about money for once but I was miserable. The first day I started Suboxone I really felt normal again, not high, not feeling wonderful or anything like that but just balanced if that makes any sense.

_________________
"If you're going through hell, ....keep going!"
-Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group