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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Hello everyone,

I haven't been on in a long time so I thought I'd re-introduce myself. I'm a 35 year old with two toddlers and have struggled with oxy addiction for 2 rotten years, well almost 3 now. Originally prescribed it for my back I quickly became addicted and began a downward spiral I never dreamed possible. I lost my own mother to opiate/alcohol addiction 5 years ago and I know how easy it can be for this addiction to kill you - yet I still struggle and just got off a bad relapse.

I have quit cold turkey two times in the past and endured wds that were straight from hell. I got through the wds both times but like many others, relapsed because I didn't get aftercare AND I could not handle the SEVERE depression and anxiety that kicked in really bad after I quit. I've struggled with both depression and anxiety since I was a kid. It was the fact that I found oxy to "cure" both my depression and anxiety that led me so far into my addiction. I have often wondered if I am one of those people who simply does not produce enough endorphins naturally. EDS it's called and although I know there's a lot of debate on endorphin deficiency syndrome I really have to wonder because I never responded to any antidepressants and only when I began opiates did I for the first time in my life find relief from the depression, racing thoughts, erratic emotions, anxiety attacks etc etc that have plagued me for as long as I can remember. I got on suboxone a few months ago but found that although it kept the wds at bay I still struggled with the cravings. I know methadone worked better for me for both physical/mental cravings (I was on methadone pills a short time for pain management last year but went back to oxy when I heard the horror stories of methadone. Plus on methadone I felt like a zombie). I finally persuaded my doctor to let me try sub and I did ok for a little while but then the cravings got to me and I relapsed and until yesterday was in the midst of active addiction hell for the last couple months.

Beaten down and thoroughly disgusted with myself, I went on Monday to my doctor and literally begged him to take me back and although he was angry at me he finally relented and I've been given another chance to do this right. Thank God because my intake on oxy was ridiculous, sometimes snorting 200 mgs a day and it was just a matter of time before I would have killed myself on them. I began taking sub (8 mgs a day) yesterday and had my first oxy free day in a long time. I want to do this right so I have gone to two NA meetings in the last week. I've kept the fact I'm on suboxone to myself after reading about their narrow minded views on ORT. I feel guilty for not saying anything but at the same time I don't think it's fait they judge people on sub. I don't get high on sub, I don't abuse it and I've tried SO HARD to do complete abstinance but I just can't live feeling like I wanna kill myself every day and be an emotional basketcase. It's not fair or healthy for my kids to see me like that just like it wasn't fair to them to have a mother in active addiction. God the guilt and shame are too much some days. I'm also trying to line up a therapist that specializes in addictions. I think getting to the root of my depression and anxiety, the reasons why I needed to numb myself, will be key in me being able to recover. My hope is to use sub as just a tool to put my addiction into remission and use the time to get help and the plan is to hopefully taper off sub and having done aftercare maybe I won't get hit with the deep dark depression that swallows me whenever I try to quit opiates completely. There is a part of me that wonders though if I'll ever be able to go off sub. If I do have EDS then I might need sub for life. Which sucks because on sub I don't FEEL emotions like I should. Which is a good thing and a bad thing. My sex drive on sub is low to non existent and I still crave oxy although hopefully with time and aftercare the cravings will diminish. I really would love to be opiate free. As horrible as the depression was and the anxiety attacks were when I quit cold turkey, I loved that music affected me so profoundly again, I loved that I had a sex drive, I loved that I feel good feelings so much stronger. I could FEEL. But that wasn't enough to offset the negative, horrible feelings of depression. Those won and sent me relapsing again on pills.

So I guess I just need to really take it a day at a time. My goal is to get recovery going and one day down the road, when I'm ready, to taper off sub. That's my ideal goal but how this actually ends up I don't know. I do know being on sub will let me get my life together and my head together (hopefully) I just wish sub did more for the mental cravings. I am grateful for sub because at least I have a chance to get my shit together, fix the damage I've done and try and live a normal life. Today is my 2nd day oxy free and I feel hopeful for the future and proud of myself for finally taking a big step in the right direction. Sorry for the loooong post. I'd REALLY appreciate any support/advice you can give me. Thanks!!


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 Post subject: Welcome
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:40 pm 
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The most important thing is that you are back. It makes me want to cry to hear people who are beating themselves up mercilessly. Listen, I can hear in your words that you are a good person and you desperately want to do all the right things and be a good mom. Please just give yourself a break for having relapsed. Try to figure out what didn't work last time and put all your effort into changing that. I wonder if your Sub dose wasn't high enough, as you were still having cravings. Look, I was a horrible alcoholic and I didn't quit until my oldest was 7. My kids are FINE and I'm confident about what a good mom I am even though I wasn't doing a good job when I was drinking. You have to forgive yourself. If you don't, you will be unworthy of sobriety.

Maybe for now you should only focus on getting onto Suboxone and finding the right dose. If you look as far ahead as when you will get off it and how you will manage that, well, you are going to get overwhelmed. I understand everything you said about the side effects from taking Suboxone. That could be me talking (sex drive, not feeling things as much, not enjoying stuff like music as much, etc.) I've had those same side effects. However, consider the alternative. Sometimes you just have to make the best decision and realize that no decision is going to be perfect but there is a decision that is much, much better than the others. You need a break from the cravings so you can get all your stuff straightened out and start believing in yourself again. This is a new start, not just a failure. Try to see it that way.

Please stay around! I'm a mom too and just because we've messed up doesn't mean me love our babies one iota less. Right?

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:59 pm 
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Thank you :)

Your kind words made me feel better and your right, there's no sense kicking myself over and over for what I've done. I'm wondering too if maybe 8 mgs just isn't enough. Thing is I thought that cravings were normal on sub..am I wrong? I shouldn't crave? For me sub has done a good job at keeping the wds at bay (although right now I'm having RLS..but I thought maybe it's because I just started) but sub has never done a whole lot for the mental cravings. I just assumed thats the way it was. Should I just ride it out and see if in a few more days if 8 mgs isn't enough then I'll have to go up? Or should I just try and take another 2 mgs and see how that goes? Sub is such a weird drug and so often I hear people say that lower doses work better sometimes then higher doses. If I could get the dose right I'd be on my way. I don't see the doctor until Monday but when I do go I'm going to tell him how I'm feeling and see what he says. I hope I do stabilize at 8 mgs though, cost is a factor and I can't afford much more then it's already costing me for treatment but if another 2 mgs helps me not crave as much then I'd do it. Any ideas? Again thank you so much, I have to let go of the shame and guilt. It's not doing me any good and your right, I need to live for today and not worry about months from now.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:56 am 
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welcome back!!i know everyone is different in terms of how the medication affects them but i want to say that when i first started taking subs he had me on 8-12mg and sometimes i needed 8 but usually i needed 12. I know having the option of that extra hallf of a pill always helped me alot in terms of feelings a little tired or restless. I always took the doses prescribed and reakly very rarely have a craving for a pain pill. In fact i usually have cravings, if any, for benzos simply because im stressed or something and need to relax and i know that would do the trick. Anyways, with that said, I think that you prob need to get on a slightly higher dose. I dont know how bad your cravings are but i would think (and im not a doctor, but im telling you from my personal experience) that you would feel better if your doctor gave you the option to take, lets say, an extra half or quarter throughout the day as needed.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:31 am 
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Yes, suboxone should be addressing your cravings. Once your opiates receptors are saturated at the right level FOR YOU (don't compare your dosage to anyone else's), there is simply no need for your brain to crave more opiates. What might be left are triggers and thoughts of ways you used to cope with life - by taking a pill. That's where therapy or the like can help you - to teach you new coping skills.

I hope this helps.

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 Post subject: like Hat said
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:37 pm 
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Well, she pretty much said it. I really don't know what an opiate craving feels like, but from all the hundreds and hundreds of experiences I've read, if you are at a high enough dose, you shouldn't be feeling significant cravings. That's one of the most important parts of Suboxone treatment, because if all you are doing is keeping the w/d at bay, you are going to be tormented with cravings and (unfortunately) the chances are that eventually you'll give in to them. You need a big break from the cravings and it really is an individual thing as far as how high your dose needs to be to achieve that. Are you paying out of pocket for each tab/film or are you paying the doctor visit and and then a co-pay for meds? If you are paying a co-pay then it won't affect your overall cost to go up on your dose, right? Even if you are paying out of pocket for your meds, there's a program to get help paying for them which you may qualify for. Plus, whenever people are considering how expensive their Suboxone is, they have to remember how expensive their Oxy (or other drug) habit was. How much were you spending on Oxy?

I'm so glad you're here and I really want you to feel better as far as the cravings go, so your mind can be free to enjoy your life. I guess I always am especially empathetic when it comes to other mommies. We are very important people, you know? We are the best part of the world to our kids and you deserve to enjoy your kids and your life without this addiction strangling you.

God Bless!

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:36 pm 
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Hopefully that was part of the stabilizing period because today I feel ok, much better then yesterday. I took 8 mgs this morning and later if I feel like I need that extra 2 mg I'll take it and when I see the doctor Monday I'll ask him to increase my dose but I'll see how the next couple days go. I'm glad to finally be back on sub. The relapse taught me that I have a lot of work to do in aftercare in order to change the direction my life's been going. But at least putting my addiction into remission will give me the stability to do that. It feels weird to not be doing pills but more importantly it feels good to know I'm finally on the right road.


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 Post subject: Cravings
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:59 pm 
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First i would like to say i identified with your story so much as far as the guilt and shame u felt regarding your last relapse. I have been struggling with forgiving myself for the unhealthy choices i have made for my recovery the past few years. I have been on subs off and on for the past 7 yrs, with very little tottal sobriety, some remission with the suboxone which definately gave me time to put some pieces of my life back together. For me the suboxone worked great against cravings in the beginning, it seemed almost to ggod to be true,I'm not sure what happen and i would say it was a series of things that ultimately lead me to relapse but cravings came back for me after a yr or so of being on them, my dose was cut down because around here with the dr's i have had anyways and i've had 3 sub docs so far, they all beleive in tapering u down and eventually getting u off them.For me this is something i felt i must achieve and only then when i was completley off everything could i then measure my success, well i have found this way of thinking to be BULLSHIT! everyone is different and as some may be successful and maintain longterm sobriety after completing their taper from suboxone, i feel as if i may need something to keep me stable the rest of my life. I have come very close to losing my life this year becuz of relapse, and i am still unfornateley still in active addiction as i have had alot of trouble getting back on my subs this time. My sub doc told me if i were to ever relapse she would take my script, so stupid cause addicts r masters at deceit and lying which i have had to do the past 2 yrs on my current program. I have passed the drugtest anyway i had too, and as far as pulling the cover over her eyes when im face to face with her, well lets just say its far too easy to bullshit her, but in the end im just bullshitting myself! In all honesty i would have come clean to her a long time ago, and wanted help from her years ago, but always kept hearing those words she told me our first appointment... NO RELAPSE ALLOWED! Let's face it, relapse for the majority of us addicts is inevitable, at least for this one it has been. I needed alot of my falls to give me the willingness and desperation to want recovery for ME, not just for my daughter or loved ones but because i love myself and i want it for me. Thats a very tough place to get sometimes considering all the crazy shit we did in or active phases and not being able to distinguish between what our disease led us to do, or what we morally chose to do. As bad as they have been I have learned so much from them about myself and about my recovery, what works for me and what doesn't. It's come time to face the music and accept that suboxone may not be the maintenance for me. I have had ample time to discredit that claim but i have not been able to prove sub is my answer, I have almost lost everything this time around again, and that would have ruined me because i have been lucky enough to gain so much back in just the short remission and successful sub treatment i took advantage of. My advice for you would be to really look at what lead u up to your relapse, as u know we usually relapse far before we actually pick back up. Forgive yourself for being nothing other than a sick person who needs help. Therapy is also a great tool in helping u find the underlying reason u used drugs in the first place. Understanding ourselves and our addiction plays major roles in how well we will do in our recovery. I have found the root of my relapses the past few yrs and once i gain physical control back over this monster i fully intend to focus my energy in dealing with what has kept me sick this whole time. I wish u the best and plz keep us posted:


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