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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:12 pm 
I didnt put this in the stopping suboxone thread because thats not what im doing however i do wanna taper a bit. Ok so, as im sure many have read on other threads i've been taking sub for 19 months. Completely turned my life around etc. etc. I am currently taking 16mg's. I am stable however, i feel that i wanna get down to a lower dosage. I just feel that 16mg's is a bit too much for me at this point. I dont take it for pain or anything so its strictly for my addiction. Thats another reason i believe i could lower my dosage a bit. I go to sleep at night with the intent of taking a little bit less the next morning but when i wake up everyday, this never happens. I just cant bring myself to do it from fear of discomfort. I know i can do it but i've just never been one for change especially this. If i could just get a good push to do it every day it would be much easier lol. However im on my own with this, along with this forum. I have the discipline to do it but i must admit, i take my dose right when i wake up in the morning and im about halfway conscious when i do so. I guess like the title says, i just need a little encouragement and reassurance that by lowering my dosage, i want wake up missing an arm and a leg lol jokin. My ideal goal would be around 8mg's but i would settle with 12mg's so thats a good bit of working room. Any help you all could give me would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:26 pm 
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I believe you could lower your dose in increments down to 8 mg with little to no discomfort. It's all above the ceiling, so you may not feel it at all. Just do it in smaller drops, like drop from 16 to 14 or 16-12. As for taking your full dose in the morning, I would get the lower dose ready at night and put it where you normally put your tablets - just take THAT in the morning instead of reaching for the whole bottle and 2 full tablets. Good luck - you can do this. Getting down to the lowest possible dose without cravings is a good plan. Keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:09 pm 
Thanks hat!! Im gonna try 14 tomorrow and i will keep the post going. Im definitely gonna prepare the dose tonight instead of waking up doing it while not thinking clearly. Again thanks!!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:27 am 
Well, i've did it. I took 2mg's less this morning. The times in the past i've tried this i get absolutely psychotic. Like, this rage builds up inside me and i just wanna snap. But, this is necessary so i will fight through all that crap.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:36 am 
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Good for you! Let us know how you are feeling. IF you're going to notice anything (and you may very well not feel a thing), it would be in the next 3 or so days. Good luck!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:22 am 
I most definitely will keep an update. I think im gonna decrease as low as i possibly can over no set period of time. Just slow and steady. If i can only get to say, 10mg's then great but im gonna try to get as low as i can. So, wish me luck. I finally have my own internet connection so i am able to get on here anytime i want so i will definitely keep a day by day update. Probably multiple times a day. I know what you mean about not noticing anything until a few days goes by because thats how it happen when i've tried it before. I think it took about 2 maybe 3 days when i started getting ill. But, im gonna fight it out this time because its necessary for me at this point. Thanks for being supportive!!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:25 am 
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You'll be fine, Be patient, wait 3-4 weeks before you do this again.. You should have no trouble stabilizing, Keep yourself busy...... Sleep was always my nemisis and feeling REAL shitty in the morning !!!! Good Luck Mike PS: Its -3 degrees here today, I have envy for those reading this in the southwestern states


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:09 am 
Thanks!! Its 18 defreeze here i mean degreez lol


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:54 am 
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hey Lifesaver,

just want to offer you the support for tapering....i get it, I really do. my sub dr tells me that he feels that dosing between 8-16mg has little effect on symptoms...that is his belief, he says, based not on research but on what all his patients have gone through. So, i thought i'd throw that out for you.

I realize I have only just begun on Sub, altho was in decent recovery on methadone maintenance (sans apathy...)but I have been just thinking about the idea of whether I will want to try to get off sub or not. My dr. does encourage patients to get off Sub but he also supports those who feel they need it longer or even for life. I've said this before but he talks about the research from NIDA that says it takes about 90-120 days for our brains to kind of "re-wire" and although they don't know how this occurs they believe it happens. So his idea is that patients go on Sub for 4 months, allow the brain to re-wire and then think about tapering off....or not. He is very open to whatever the patient needs which is great. I feel so lucky to have him-he is reasonable both fiscally and behaviorally and he is knowledgable about both sub and addiction. he's a cool guy.

So I am pondering the idea of possibly getting off of Sub in 4-6 months. If this was my first attempt at recovery and I hadn't been on methadone maintenance and didn't have a program i work and had experience being clean and sober for 5 years previously I probably wouldn't even consider the idea. I know what the research says about short term sub use and relapse rates. Believe me, I don't have another recovery in me....I am sure of it. I cannot afford any more crap behavior.
So this is just a thought...not a total decision at this point. I'm not anxious about it at all, and obviously I just got stabilized...but I'm opening myself up to the idea. I used to think I was going to be a lifer on some kind of maintenance. I remember going into treatment the first time and having this kind of contempt for the "relapsers" like I was better than them or something...even tho I was lying my ass off in treatment and had no insight whatsoever at that point. I kind of always go back to the idea that all my experiences only make me a more empathic person and helps me in my work as well to understand what my patients go through. I think I am very open minded about what people's experiences are and the decisions they make...I don't push people to do anything but I will point out thinking errors etc. Anyway, I just know how, for me, not rushing into a decision about going off Sub is more important. so, it's just an idea right now.

Good luck with your taper and i bet you will do just fine. We really can psychologically make things difficult for ourselves. I put myself through hell going off methadone thinking I would be sick...and looking back i could have inducted three days earlier i bet. Oh well. Live and learn. But the psychologic thing is very powerful. I remember a couple of clients I had a while back who had been in jail for drugs. they had been on crack and opiates and said when they were NOT in jail and ran out of their DOC they'd go through immediate w/d, freak out, panic, etc. But when they were in jail and had not access to their DOC and were detoxing they had NO symptoms. They said they knew they couldn't get it and their brains just didn't go there....its pretty powerful, our brains and what we do to ourselves sometimes. So i say that to hopefully help you remember that you CAN do this. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:52 pm 
Wow thanks chinagirl!!

Im definitely not getting off the sub as of now. However i do feel that its time i reduce down to a lower dose being that i've made quite a lot of changes and accomplished many things. The thing you were speaking of about that research. For me, i dont know if that is necessarily true and i say this because at my 7th month mark, my thinking was still very toxic and twisted compared to the way it is now. Only now after 19 months do i feel 100% thinking clear and normaly. No emotional roller coaster, no insanity with my thinking and no addict behaviour. Thats possibly because i was hugely into other drugs as well(ecstasy, lsd, cocaine etc.) which corrupted my thinking in a horrible way.

You talk about a person not having any symptoms while in jail yet would be going crazy on the outside. Thats happen to me before one of the times i've went to rehab. I knew drugs were not an option while in rehab therfor i honestly had no thought of even using and really no symptoms at all. It was weird and your right, the mind is so much stronger than we realize.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply!! I'll definitely get through this. Im just not gonna give into myself like i usually do. When i was using, my mind would completely cave. But my mind has grown so much in these 19 months and i honestly never thought i would see this day. As far as the doctor, my doctor is a jerk but hes all about the money so in a way thats gonna be to my advantage because he isnt gonna be rushing me off the medication. That always makes me feel a good bit of comfort to not have that to worry about.

Anyways, again thanks for your reply along with everyone else's and thanks everyone for being supportive!! Hope everyone has a great day today!!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:59 pm 
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Hi LS,
Just to clarify what I am talking about with the brain re-wiring....basically that means that after using and being in a kind of old brain thinking place, not making sound decisions and unable to utilize executive functioning that once we stop using and doing that up and down with opiates thing to our brains every 2-4 hours or whatever that our brain can then begin to heal and allow cognitive functioning to come back...basically the first 90 days makes it very difficult in treatment to comprehend a lot of what we hear because of this re-wiring need...getting back to executive functioning or at least a better cognitive place. It allows us to begin to be able to change thinking and behaviors...it doesn't mean it is all over within 4 months, that we have changed everything in 3-4 months...just that we are better ABLE to function after that point, cognitively.

I think it takes us a while to change these behaviors....we didn't get them over night and just like addiction, the behaviors aren't going to change over night. But the ability of our brain to be able to think in a more healthy way does change within the first few months of clean time. it gives us a running change of making a new life.

Hope that makes sense.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:15 pm 
I gotcha now chinagirl!! It takes 3 to 4 months in order for our brain to come out of the fog and start being able to comprehend things needed to be successful. Thanks for clarifying!!

Well, its mid day now and for some reason the time has drastically slowed down. Not how things usually go. I know people are probably thinking, its just 2mg's. But i started with 24mg's then dropped to 16mg's and thats where i've been for the whole 19 months so 2mg's to me is a big deal. I definitely dont feel anything physically or really even mentally other than it feels like the time has just stopped or i feel like im just watching the clock and i dont know why. Its weird how the mind works. Very tricky if you ask me.

So, thats where im at so far. Thanks everyone for your support!!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:01 pm 
Well day 1, no problems. Not that i would notice something on the very first day but i just figured i would keep a day to day type thing. Hopefully tomorrow will go just as good as today. Only weird thing about today was that time seemd to go by really really slow and i was constantly looking at the clock and i dont know why because i never do that.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:02 am 
Day 2: Dont really feel any difference. So far so good!! I guess i'll see what happens later into the day.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:23 am 
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You hang tough, you hear me. Don't let anything stop you now.

Positive thoughts will be going your way from me.
Queenie


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:11 am 
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Lifesaver,

Good job! So, I know you know this....but keep busy! Try to get things done that you like and even don't like while you "wait"...so you don't focus on your physical body and make yourself feel badly. I swear, during my swtich to sub from methadone the first three days I practically stayed in bed on the computer because I was so sure i would get sick and weak and all of that. (Obviously I did this as I posted about a million times then) And if you can get things you hate doing out of the way you'll feel even better in a few days! LOL

You are doing great. You'll be fine. Keep posting, letting us support you. And take care of yourself....get a pedicure!
china


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:17 pm 
Chinagirl:

Men get pedicures? lol


Thanks for everyone's support!! Im passing doing what chinagirl said, well not the pedicure lol but the computer part. Im layin in the bed on my computer.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:46 pm 
Well, i've had just a little nausea an i've kinda gotten ill or quick temperd. Been snappin on people unintentionally. But i'll survive.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:50 pm 
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Hey lifesaver,

When I started my taper somewhere around the 2 year mark, I too was scared sh*tless. I was at 16mg and decided to go to 12mg. I got to the point in my thinking, much like you, that I no longer wanted to be on that high of a dose because I was using sub to clean up from opiate addiction, not really for pain. Somehow, I just built up the nerve and finally broke one of those 8's in half one day and took it for my morning dose.

First day...I didn't notice much. 2nd day...not much. 3rd day...ahhh, maybe a little something, but I wasn't too worried because I made up my mind I was lowering my dose. Days 4-7 were probably where I started to notice it some more...nothing serious though. I would get the cold sweats, my attitude turned pissy quickly, but again...it didn't bother me greatly because I had made my mind up...I'm getting to a lower dose.

You have already got a couple of days under your belt and you're doing great. If I can stress anything, it's to get this first taper completed so you can teach you body and mind how minor the wd's are THEN next time you want to taper down some more, it will be that much easier because you will already know what to expect and your mind and body won't be scared quite as much.

Also, for me...less was more (once you stabilize). I know, it sounds crazy, but I felt better on lower doses.

You're doing great, don't get into your head too much during this time. (I know it's hard, man)

Oh yeah, this is not a race to see how quick you can taper down to whatever final dose you want. TAKE YOUR TIME!

I've already typed a dang novel here, so I'll end it here for now.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:32 pm 
I apprecciate that Romeo!!

I've definitely made my mind up!! Thats whats making it a little easier because i just know that once i get stable at a lower i will feel a whole lot better. Im having a couple unwanted side effects so thats one other reason i wanna decrease. What dose were you able to get down to? Do you remember how long it took you to get stable at a lower dosage? I know i absolutely cannot wait to get stable where i wanna be. I just feel like 16mg's "for me," is overkill. I feel ok now actually. That illness that i felt earlier passed an now im back at neutral ground. I guess we'll see what tomorrow brings. Did you just instantly drop to the dosage you wanted to stabilize at or did you decrease little bits at a time? Im pretty sure im gonna stay with dropping 2mg's at a time, for now until i cant drop anymore. Well, the lowest i would go is 8mg's but im thinking around 10 to 12 is my main goal. Anyways, thanks again for the replies!!


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