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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:13 pm 
Thanks laddertipper!! One question cuz im confused about something you ask. You said, do you think part of why your feeling angry is because your feeling like someone is taking something away from you? What do you mean? Im tapering by my own choice. My doctor hasnt ask me to do this. I've been at 16 mg's for right close to the whole 19 months i've been taking it. I just feel 16mg's is too much for me now and im ready to drop down some. Definitely nobody forcing me or asking me too. Is that what you meant? Or did you mean something else?


Anyways, thanks for following my thread and im definitely doing well with 14 at the moment. Havent really noticed too much difference. I pretty much feel stable as if i'd never dropped the dose. Again thanks for the help!!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:22 pm 
Well, its pretty much the end of day 4 and i must say, 14mg's feels the same as 16mg's. Im ready to reach my goal but im gonna take it slowly. So, with that said here i am.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:25 pm 
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I don't know why, but when I'm feeling any w/d or even when I'm not but am worried about it, I get irritated and I have to remind myself, "Hey, this is something that *I* want." It makes me feel like I'm being deprived or denied something and I don't like that. I kinda forget it's me who decided to taper in the first place. It really makes no sense, actually :roll:

Good job on your drop! I think it's Dr. Junig who says you should have four straight days w/ zero w/d or symptoms before tapering again. It's just a general rule of thumb that I thought I'd throw out there.

TGIF!!
laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:41 pm 
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laddertipper,

I understand what you were saying, but I can't explain it well either. I think some of it may have to do with the brains built in resistance to change. Even though I wanted to drop from one dose to the next, I too would feel that feeling of want? It is hard to explain.

My drug counselor used to remind me about having to grieve the loss of my doc. Like losing a loved one. There is a grieving process one goes through because we are losing something that has been with us day in and day out for a good while. When we taper we are losing some of our 'buddy'?

Anyway, you're not alone with those feelings.

How is your taper going laddertipper?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:47 am 
Well, day 5 and this morning my stomach felt the worst its felt yet although i was fine once i took my med. So, here i am and doing pretty good now.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:45 am 
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Lifesaver, I have been following your thread and I must say, you are doing great. It takes a lot of stregnth and will power to do what you are doing.

Don't let anything make you stop the direction you are going in. I know I relapsed and it was the worst mistake of my life. I regretted it so much I can't tell you.

Keep us posted.

Love & hope, Queenie


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:49 pm 
Well, its pretty much the end of day 5 and everything was pretty much normal today other than it took my stomach a little while to adjust. When i woke up i felt pretty nauseated and weak, however after i took my dose the weakness went away but the nausea stayed around until around lunch time but it slowly got better from the time i woke up until lunch when it was 100% better. Thanks everyone for following me!!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:35 am 
Day 6: I had knots from hell in my stomach this morning!! They went away about an hour after dosing but it was a bit rough when i first woke up. However, all is well now so day 6 here we go.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:50 am 
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Hey lifesaver -

I've been really busy lately and haven't been around the forum as much as usual, so I'm taking some time tonight to catch up on reading posts. I just read through this whole thread and I wanted to give you props for taking on the challenge of lowering your dose and sticking it out - good work! Now, to make up for my previous neglect, I am going to write a book length post for you :o

I remember going through a lot of angry feelings when I was tapering my dose as well. It ranged from general crankiness to feeling like I couldn't control my temper, snapping at people, to sometimes feeling really deranged. I realized somewhere along the way that I had a lot of things to be angry about and that I didn't really have the skills to deal with those feelings...so I had always kinda just stuffed them down and ignored them.

I think the fact that I'd been stuffing my anger for so long and had become out of touch with my internal landscape (yes, I was really good at ignoring/denying my anger), coupled with the fact that I was lowering my dose and depriving my brain of the amount of opiate it was used to getting, caused these angry explosions during my taper. I came to see that I needed to find healthy ways to acknowledge my feelings, be aware of them, and express them or channel them so they wouldn't have negative effects on me or the people around me.

So I started a practice of "taking my emotional temperature" just to see where I was at several times a day. Something would be going on and I would just ask myself, how do I really feel about this? I did this when I wasn't actively tapering and I soon found out that there was a lot of stuff going on in and around me that was annoying me, frustrating me, pissing me off, etc. I had become so good at ignoring those feelings and shoving them away that I had ceased to realize that it was even happening. And I could maintain that way...until I added another stressor to my life, for example, a drop in my medication. I saw that this problem wasn't going to go away, even if the "symptom" of anger did resolve as I adjusted to my new dose...those feelings were real. They might have been exaggerated by the taper, but they weren't caused soley by the taper. Does that make sense?

My therapist and I talked about this and I started trying different things to see what would help. I think different things will be helpful for different people, but here are some things that helped me. I wrote every day about what was going on and how I felt about it. I started working out and doing more yoga (also a good endorphin boost). I got back into meditation. I gave myself permission to feel whatever I was feeling; while acknowledging that it wasn't ok for me to just go off on people.

As my awareness of my emotions grew, I found that I was able to sense my anger when it was just at the "I am becoming annoyed" stage, and instead of letting it go until I blew up. I started saying things like: "Your television show is too loud and it's starting to bug me, please turn it down." or "I had a bad day and I am cranky, please give me some space right now or you will have one grouchy mama to deal with." or "When you say you will take care of something for me and then you forget, it causes me extra stress and makes me mad."

Time went on and while I didn't make anywhere near a perfect practice of these skills, I got a lot better. I found that the amount of crazy-ass anger I felt when I dropped my dose was less, and also my life was just better, my relationships were healthier, and I knew myself better than I had in years.

I finished my taper a year ago and I'm really doing well - despite some life drama and various setbacks, my recovery is strong. Staying in touch with my anger, practicing being detached from it, learning to express it without hurting anyone...these are all still works in progress and I'm sure they will be for a long time, but I've gained so much ground in this area, it's astonishing.

Tapering gave me an opportunity to recognize a problem and I'm so glad that I was able to start working on the solution while I was still on Suboxone. Ultimately, anger is just energy and it can be used just as effecitvely for constructive purposes as it can be for destructive ones. Recovery gives us a chance to make profound changes in the way that we relate to ourselves and to others; I encourage you and anyone else to take advantage of these things that pop up - they may seem like an annoying symptom or a problem to overcome, but sometimes they are a message from a deeper part of ourselves telling us where to focus our attention so that we can grow, become more whole, more fully be who we truly are.

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You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:50 am 
Diary of a Quitter:

My goodness you read me like a book!! I do have horrible anger problems!! I have been through ten years of mental abuse from my moms ex-husband(was my stepdad). From 5th grade until about 10 years later when i finally realized that i didnt have to take anymore of his shit. He put me through pure hell. Now im 25 and have many many different issues like anger, self-esteem problems etc. etc. etc. etc. The anger is the thing i have the most problem with but i do just like you said, i just keep shoving it down further and further into my mind. I get angry, i go to my room and shut the door. I just dont have the skills to handle it. I've tried handling it and i literally flip the hell out cussin and yelling. Im not abusive and most definitely not physically abusive. I would never touch anybody. I just yell and cuss at people when they push me to that point. The thing is, usually i dont even say anything. But you can guarantee if i do say something, its because they have pushed me to a point of no return and thats when i start yelling and cussing at whoever it is im angry at an then go to my room and shut the door. So, your assesment or whatever you wanna call it was dead on the money. I have actual anger issues but i never really thought that they could surface in other ways. Anyways, i appreciate your reply.


Day 7: Woke up completely normal today. My stomach even felt back to normal. Not angry or ill or anything. Everything seems back to normal and stable. So, im gonna stay at this for about another week and then try dropping another 2mg's. Wish me luck!! And again thanks everyone who has followed this thread and helped me with this!!


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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