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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am 
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Happy DAY 30 Jump bro/son!!!!! Get yourself a chip today!!!! SO proud of you!!
:D Jump mom/sis

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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:12 am 
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Hi Breezhy, ya, I know all about getting trapped in my head. I didn't start the supplements until well after my jump. They do help.

My favorite group, is a CA one that's hard for me to get to because of distance & timing. But I went last night and shared about my recent experience. One of my friends there is a guy who has been working w/ newcomers for 20/years. Great recovery and he definitely has something I want.

He gave me some clarity. I'm trying to live in step 10-11-12, where we get the freedom & peace. But I'm struggling with step 1-2-3, which are the foundation for everything else. Im definitely finding it hard at times to accept powerlessness over drugs (and evertthing else) in the 'innermost core of my being, and hard also at times to give sh*t up to The Creator. That makes it impossible for me to live mostly in 10-11-12 (we're never there at all times).

Terror of relapse gave me a solid 1-2-3 when I did the steps 5 months ago, but now the Sub's are gone, and its a new, more serious ballgame. My friend suggested a 1-2-3 tuneup, and I think he's right.

Speaking of ballgames, going to a BBQ today for some softball. Haven't played in years, and tomorrow has 'hurt' written all over it. Telling myself that I'll take it ez, but I probably won't, lol.

Have a great weekend everyone.

-- ji

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-- Rumi, Sufi poet and teacher


Last edited by johnny_ikon on Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:15 am 
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Stop the bus! I thought I was 29 and you were 30.

One month, cool.

-- ji

ButterFLYING! wrote:
Happy DAY 30 Jump bro/son!!!!! Get yourself a chip today!!!! SO proud of you!!
:D Jump mom/sis

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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:23 am 
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I never believed in god much johny. But.. i'm pretty open minded. How does one have faith?? I'm always curious when people talk about "the creator" . The way i see it is, if there were a greater being, or intelligence, superior to us, wouldnt they guide us?? As we do with other addicts?? As much as i Want to believe there is a god, deep down, i kind of know its bullshit. Maybe im just crazy. Please dont judge, im just curious how people obtain faith

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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:42 am 
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Ha. I'm not the only one in wny i guess.

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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:48 am 
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Hi Hope, I hear you completely, and I once felt the exact same way.

My addiction brought me to a place where I could no longer ignore that I was living in complete hopeless misery, that I would never get better relying on myself or other people, and that I would probably die a terrible death eventually.

At that point, I was willing to try anything offering hope. If you wand and need The Creator enough, willingly and honestly, you find him, simple as that. Once you do, you don't have any doubts. It just works.

But I can't prove that ri you, people have to find their own path.

-- ji

h0pe wrote:
I never believed in god much johny. But.. i'm pretty open minded. How does one have faith?? I'm always curious when people talk about "the creator" . The way i see it is, if there were a greater being, or intelligence, superior to us, wouldnt they guide us?? As we do with other addicts?? As much as i Want to believe there is a god, deep down, i kind of know its bullshit. Maybe im just crazy. Please dont judge, im just curious how people obtain faith

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"Past and future veil God from our sight; burn both of them with fire."
-- Rumi, Sufi poet and teacher


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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:56 am 
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johnny_ikon wrote:
Hi Hope, I hear you completely, and I once felt the exact same way.

My addiction brought me to a place where I could no longer ignore that I was living in complete hopeless misery, that I would never get better relying on myself or other people, and that I would probably die a terrible death eventually.

At that point, I was willing to try anything offering hope. If you wand and need The Creator enough, willingly and honestly, you find him, simple as that. Once you do, you don't have any doubts. It just works.

But I can't prove that ri you, people have to find their own path.

-- ji

h0pe wrote:
I never believed in god much johny. But.. i'm pretty open minded. How does one have faith?? I'm always curious when people talk about "the creator" . The way i see it is, if there were a greater being, or intelligence, superior to us, wouldnt they guide us?? As we do with other addicts?? As much as i Want to believe there is a god, deep down, i kind of know its bullshit. Maybe im just crazy. Please dont judge, im just curious how people obtain faith


Isnt that the truth

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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:13 pm 
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h0pe wrote:
I , im just curious how people obtain faith

Since you "asked", in my case I was the most stubborn "anti religious" person you could have met in my 20s and early 30s. I was angry at "God" (if he did even exist- also thought "bullshit").
Then at my "bottom" I "prayed" out of desperation and felt like I was praying to "no one"...I just "cracked the door" open a bit, then little by little "God" revealed Himself to me and I truly have no doubts now. I don't "understand" "God" - I don't think that is humanly possible. But "faith" I have in abundance. And it is very comforting.

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Last edited by ButterFLYING! on Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:20 pm 
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Today's your 30 days sub free, Mr. Ikon!?

Cool...

...and congrats! I hope you have a fun weekend, to celebrate your having made it this far.


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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:13 pm 
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h0pe wrote:
I never believed in god much johny. But.. i'm pretty open minded. How does one have faith?? I'm always curious when people talk about "the creator" . The way i see it is, if there were a greater being, or intelligence, superior to us, wouldnt they guide us?? As we do with other addicts?? As much as i Want to believe there is a god, deep down, i kind of know its bullshit. Maybe im just crazy. Please dont judge, im just curious how people obtain faith



Well, I don't think you are crazy, although many might see those without firm belief, faith, etc, that way. People without faith (I'm defining 'faith" here as having absolute certainty there is a God(ess), Creater/Creatrix, etc) are a definite minority, and often subject to harassment (the urge to control minds of others insofar as beliefs, seems at least as strong, if not stronger, than the sex drive - witness the sectarian violence overseas in the Middle-East over religion, the wonderful period of Christianity known as the "Inquisitions", etc), and discrimination, if they publicly come out of the closet about it. A recent American president even went so far as to publicly say while campaigning, "I don't know that atheists should be considered as Patriots, nor should they be considered as Citizens." - George H.W. Bush.

There is an interesting sub section on this site, called "Non-theistic beliefs", near middle of menu bar/panel on left side of page: http://www.religioustolerance.org/


Anyway, after the question of what defines "faith", one can venture into the territory of how various folks believe, and/or put into practice their belief in a God(ess), Creater, Creatrix, etc, and it could fill a sizable library with theological texts full of dogma and doctrines. For example, many of the Founding Fathers, like Thomas Jefferson, were Deists (as you might already know), and they believe the Supreme Being, just brought things into being or set them into motion, but doesn't intervene in human affairs, as just one example.

Quote:
"When I was back there in seminary school. There was a person there who put forth the proposition that you can petition the lord with prayer...."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bclejVfZK0Y





I'm not sure how one obtains faith, in the sense of how I defined it, above. It could be social conditioning, maybe how the majority are hardwired genetically. It could come from a desperate need after hitting a bottom in some area of one's life. There are lots of psychological theories, like, for example, how most Western, Abrahamic branch, Monotheism religions (the "big three" being Jews, Muslims and Christians) describe us as children of a God who is omnipotent and perfect, therefore, God is our perfect, invisible Daddy, and that could be attractive to have in the life of many people who feel as if they were let down by imperfect parents? *shrug*


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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:18 pm 
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Hey Johnny, as I was reading through your thread yesterday, you mentioned something about birds or animals running around in your head and referred to them as your scattered thoughts. I used to tell people I felt like I had a dozen stupid squirrels running around in my head. They were all doing their own thing and they were banging into one another and whatnot. I don't remember exactly where I was in my recovery when those Ding Dongs finally all started running in unison, but it happened. I'm glad you're getting your thoughts to calm and come in order, just keep at it and eventually it'll become the norm.

Congratulations on 30 days, man!!!!

Hi H0pe, questions about God and whether he exists or not are tough one's. I don't know why God doesn't reveal Himself to us directly, but I think indirectly, He reveals Himself to us constantly, you just have to look for it. Your question about God guiding us brought me to a similar question I asked my dad in my teen years. My dad's answer was that God gave us free will. We all have free will to live our lives how we see fit. God wants us to love Him by our own free will. God doesn't want to force Himself upon us, He wants us to come to Him willingly. I do believe God guides me (when I let Him, which is often enough) because I seeked Him out. If we don't seek Him out, then He lets us do our thing. He loves us enough to let us not love Him (not believe in Him) or choose to love Him (believe in Him).

As to developing Faith, I think Butterfly did a great job of explaining it.

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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:28 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
Hi H0pe, questions about God and whether he exists or not are tough one's. I don't know why God doesn't reveal Himself to us directly, but I think indirectly, He reveals Himself to us constantly, you just have to look for it. Your question about God guiding us brought me to a similar question I asked my dad in my teen years. My dad's answer was that God gave us free will. We all have free will to live our lives how we see fit. God wants us to love Him by our own free will. God doesn't want to force Himself upon us, He wants us to come to Him willingly. I do believe God guides me (when I let Him, which is often enough) because I seeked Him out. If we don't seek Him out, then He lets us do our thing. He loves us enough to let us not love Him (not believe in Him) or choose to love Him (believe in Him).

As to developing Faith, I think Butterfly did a great job of explaining it.


God must love Bacon Eaters more than any other of his children, to allow it to continue. You and Trainer could very well be the Chosen Ones!


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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:34 pm 
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Hey boop, I'm gonna go outside and see if I can walk across our pool water to test your theory out!! Better grab me a piece of bacon first, though!!!

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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:37 pm 
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UGH, I sank like a stone.....but I saved the bacon!!! Yum, bacon!!!

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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:40 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
UGH, I sank like a stone.....but I saved the bacon!!! Yum, bacon!!!


lol


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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:19 pm 
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Now, Muriel plays piano
Every Friday at the Hollywood
And they brought me down to see her
And they asked me if I would
Do a little number
And I sang with all my might
She said, "Tell me are you a Christian, child?"
And I said, "Ma'am, I am tonight!"

Walking in Memphis
I was walking with my feet ten feet off of Beale
Walking in Memphis
But do I really feel the way I feel?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFEB9xLeLmY


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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:43 pm 
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Gee, I missed the bacon conversation........


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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:45 pm 
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Congratulations on the big 30 dude! ;amazing progress! You made it to the other side!


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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:21 pm 
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I also struggle with the higher power stuff. Like hope I want to believe, but I really struggle with it. I have seen the peace it brings to people though and I am glad you have found it.

Grats on 1 month too JI

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 Post subject: Re: just jumped
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:30 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:

I'm not sure how one obtains faith, in the sense of how I defined it, above. It could be social conditioning, maybe how the majority are hardwired genetically. It could come from a desperate need after hitting a bottom in some area of one's life. There are lots of psychological theories, like, for example, how most Western, Abrahamic branch, Monotheism religions (the "big three" being Jews, Muslims and Christians) describe us as children of a God who is omnipotent and perfect, therefore, God is our perfect, invisible Daddy, and that could be attractive to have in the life of many people who feel as if they were let down by imperfect parents? *shrug*


Hey boop, I like how you gave many theories of "how one may obtain faith".
Here is one you forgot. Just 'perhaps' "God" is real, and does have the ability to intervene in our lives if we allow it (free will). 'Perhaps' faith can grow from actual "God" experiences for those who choose to open their eyes and their hearts to the 'possibility'....even a teeny tiny bit..and allow God to begin His/Her work in them. God does already know your heart, and when you are ready and give Him/Her the opportunity, He/She will not let you down.
Now, come out of the corner I have pushed you into (ha ha ha) , b-r-e-a-t-h, and reflect on the "possibility" of a loving, Divine Mind with an unfathomably awesome master plan for the Universe and each of his/her creations in it. Open your eyes and heart to the "possibility", invite "Your understanding of the Divine Mind/ Higher Power" into your life, then sit back and enjoy the ride! :D

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