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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:15 pm 
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Hello, I am new here and just found this forum, and I am looking for advice from mothers who have given birth while on Subs and told their dr. and had their child in the NICU for NAS. Please...

Well I gave birth to a gorgeous baby girl on Friday Oct 9th. I told all my dr's I was on Subs prior to having my baby girl( 8 mg a day) I was told not to wean off as it would be unsafe for the baby, which now I think I disagree but its too late for all that now.

After she was born about 48 hours, she went into withdrawal, my life, my everything felt like it was falling apart, I was to neive to think my baby wouldn't go into withdrawal? Why? I have no idea, I just was not thinking and did not do enough research. its now been a week since I have given birth and my baby girl has been in the NICU since Monday. I go there every single day all day and feed her and bond with her and read to her... She is on Morphine & Clonadine ( why they put her on clonadine in the first place as well as morphine I have no idea) She is doing good, and is easily consolable, and she eats great too, her main issue right at this moment today is she is not sleeping for longer then 2 hours.... Has any one else been through this? How did you cope? and my most important question which may not be relevant because every baby is different right? ( I have heard this so many times this week) but how long until i can bring my baby girl home? this is the most terrible feeling. I am not pregnant and I come home with nothing except guilt and feelings of how could I have done this to her? but then again I think without this medication She would not be here, mom would not have a great career, and I wouldn't be where I am today without it?


Any feedback, stories, and how long this process takes from your experience would be very helpful to me. thank you so much in advance... I TRULY appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:05 pm 
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Hello Bellasmommy, I can only imagine what both of you are going through but all you have is today! For today you are doing everything within your power to help and support her. I don't have any answers for you, I have never had a child. But I do know that she will need you to be the best mom you can be from this day forward! I wish you and Bella much luck!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:59 pm 
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Hello Bellasmom,
Welcome...no, im not a mom, heck im not even a dad, but ive known several women who had there child while on Buprenorphine. All without issue. Ive read many of the samethings here too.

What I see is that it all depends on the dr and nurses who are treating you and your baby. Sometimes the wd they see isn't. Sometimes there system is just what they do with every baby.

Are you breast feeding? Ill assume you are. And still on sub. So why are they giving the baby morphine when the breast milk would or could be enough to settle the baby? Again this isn't my "thing" but ive seen this at the hospital I go to for sub treatment. .. Whats done is done, and you did all you knew to do. It ll be ok Mom. It will. Moms on sub have it tuff . The feelings of guilt are real, but in the end just know that your saving your life and the little one will be ok..

Just wanted to say hang in there and Hopefully a mommy whos been though it will come by. Michelle and I just want to welcome you .. :D

Razor..


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:40 pm 
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[b]No, I am not breastfeeding, but thank you for your kind words.. I am actually really glad I found this web-site as it is so hard to find people to relate to being on this medication... It has TRULY changed my life in so many good ways... and of course me making the right choices in life..

And yes I am at the NICU every single day watching her and they score her if she doesn't sleep a full 4 hours? so I get what your saying about being scored/for something that may or may not truly be withdrawal..

I just got back from her feeding and when she was being weighed she started crying a lot and she was shaking, and I said shes probably just cold!

So any stories or advice, is great from anyone.. I already feel better just writing about this experience.
[/b]


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:59 am 
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Hi Bellasmommy

To sort of answer your question, how long she stays depends on where you live. If the hospital sees baby's born on sub they will release the baby earlier. Was CPS brought into the picture?

Sometimes there are ridiculous reasons, like sleeping 4 hours. I have twins and 1 never slept 4 hours until 3 months old!

Can you give us more information? Have you read the pregnancy thread? Many moms brought the baby's home within a week. I hope your little one is released soon.

I have raised 5 baby's and I am going to ask you Not to blame yourself when you have her home and she is fussy or if she doesn't walk at 12 months. I ask you to get rid of feeling guilty and just love your baby. She will sleep,walk , talk etc when she is ready.

Please keep posting and if you have questions keep asking. Stay strong & keep your head up.

Hugs


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:18 am 
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Hey Bellasmom! Congrats on the baby. I'm a mother of three but didn't become addicted til after my youngest was born so I can't give u personal experience. From what I've gathered here on the forum, like tiki has pointed out, doctors are going to automatically think there's going to be withdrawal because ur on sub. I'll tell ya this, if I'd been on sub when any of my children were born, me and the Dr would've sworn they were in major withdrawal. I went through colic with two of them for months. My point is, sometimes babies just have issues, doesn't always mean that's withdrawal. I wish they'd just let u breast feed instead of giving the baby morphine, but unfortunately that's what they wanted to do and it will be ok. Ur baby girl will get to go home in a few days and all will be bk to normal.

U should check out the suboxone and pregnancy section of the forum and read these ladies stories, you'll find a lot of answers to ur questions. Keep us posted on baby Bella's progress ok? Hope that's her name lol I'm going by ur username.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:06 am 
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I have written a number of posts about neonatal abstinence, and I invite you to read a couple-- one is here: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/withdrawal-in-newborns-lay-off-the-guilt-trip/

You can search for others on the blog, or use the 'category' function in the right sidebar of the blog at Suboxonetalkzone.com

First of all, you did the right thing. Period. Every medical specialist, study, or text will say the same thing: that women addicted to opioids should be maintained on a long-acting opioid until the baby is born. Traditionally, that opioid was methadone. But women on methadone who are pregnant often end up on very high doses of that drug-- pushing their tolerance to very high levels, so that virtually all babies have significant withdrawal. Of course, the babies do fine in the long run--- and the experience of withdrawal is not among the worst things that a baby experiences, by far. People see a newborn shivering and somehow imagine that the baby just came to be, at that moment! In reality, a couple hours earlier the baby was in the birth canal, trying to breathe (of course the oxygen is coming from the umbilical cord-- but during deliver the cord is often compressed, causing changes in oxygen and carbon dioxide that the would feel the same to a baby who is... frankly... suffocated! Before that, the baby was upside down, getting pushed, squeezed, bounced... we picture this wonderful intra-uterine environment, but in reality we have no idea what it 'feels like' to that baby, or 'fetus'. When that same baby is born, there is no 'on' switch that suddenly makes it start recording experiences.

I got off on a tangent...

As buprenorphine has become more-available, the trend has been to use bupe instead of methadone. There are many advantages-- the tolerance of the mother is much lower, meaning any withdrawal in the baby will be much less severe. According to a number of studies, about half of babies born to moms on bupe will show withdrawal symptoms. The same studies show no benefit to the mother tapering down on buprenorphine to lower doses... but I tend to think that there MUST be value in doing so. I wonder if the studies did not know exactly what the study subjects were taking. My patients have done well by reducing to about 8 mg during pregnancy-- but that could just be a biased impression.

Another 'impression' of mine is that babies have experiences dictated by the sensibilities of their neonatologists. My patients who delivered at a small community hospital all did great; they breast fed, and the baby went home at the regular time, with mom. If there was any withdrawal, it wasn't noticed--- and it was treated by the buprenorphine in breast milk. Nursing while on buprenorphine seems to me to be the ideal way to wean a baby off the medication; the baby's liver gets better and better at metabolizing medications soon after birth, so the buprenorphine level in the bloodstream slowly decreases.

But if a hospital has neonatologists and a neonatal ICU, they are going to USE those things. Every nurse on the OB unit will know that THIS baby's mom is an ADDICT! If the baby cries along with all the other babies, the nurses will believe that THIS baby is suffering from withdrawal. And when the baby is sleeping along with all the other babies, the nurses will think this baby is 'sedated' from opioids.

They will put the baby in the neonatal ICU, where the environment would make ANY baby look sick and miserable---- opioid withdrawal or not. Just look at the environment, and all of the little ways that mom's experience changes.... instead of smiling nurses wheeling the baby into the room, congratulating mom repeatedly in front of smiling family, you have busy, grim-faced nurses and doctors who are bent over charts or computers. When they take time to talk with mom, the conversation is serious, and certain to instill guilt and fear. The baby is under unnatural lighting that changes the color from healthy-looking skin to some type of medical specimen.

The baby will remember none of this, just as the baby won't remember the difficult journey down the birth canal... or the circumcision! Rest assured that ALL of the misery will reside completely in mom-- which is, probably, where the doctors and nurses WANT it to go. I realize, of course, that there are good doctors and nurses out there... but I know that when you get a group of people together, the urge to look down their noses at people with addictions often becomes too powerful to avoid.

I may stick this post on the forum, since I droned on and on for so long... Good luck to mom, and to all the moms in this situation. Things will work out fine, and your baby will have no bad memories or ill effects. I hope that the moms are able to let go of whatever guilt they end up with over the issue.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:08 am 
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One last thing-- she eats great but won't sleep more than 2 hours? Sounds pretty normal to me-- None of my 3 kids slept more than 2 hours at a time during those days!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:45 pm 
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My first child didn't sleep 2 hours. It's not some symptom of a terrible withdrawal. It's the differences in babies. Anyway, I wanted to say something about...
I have raised 5 baby's and I am going to ask you Not to blame yourself when you have her home and she is fussy or if she doesn't walk at 12 months. I ask you to get rid of feeling guilty and just love your baby. She will sleep,walk , talk etc when she is ready.

I suppose it is part of the nurturing nature of women, but I have seen so many mothers beat themselves up over things like this. Given all the circumstances, you did everything you could do and did it appropriately. The fact that you're this concerned shows that. Now, you have to stop beating yourself up and just look forward to bringing your baby home and loving her and staying up nights with colic, mean class mates, broken hearts, first loves, "you don't know anything" teenage attitude, and marriage and her family. "This too shall pass."

--Morphing


Last edited by Morphing on Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:28 am 
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Thank you all responding! I am so thankful. I actually thought that I did post this post in the " Suboxine & pregnancy section of this forum... Again I am new here so I am not all that sure, lol.

Today Bella did sleep a little longer but at her last feeding he cried and cried and cried, and of course the nurse noted that she was unable to be consoled, she also said since they are tapering her of the morphine ( it is currently at the lowest dose, they just spread out the times given, she is now on it every 6 hours) that her crying episode was because she wanted her medicine and was going through withdrawal, and I just sat there and prayed asking for her to be strong, because if her score goes above an 8 then that's just another extra day she is going to be there you know?

my husband & I cried and prayed. All we want is for our first child to be home with us.

The NICU in Florida at Morton Plant Hospital is where she is currently at, and the nurses and doctors are very nice etc. but I am just not sure if they have actually dealt with a baby born on Suboxine before, I can just tell... but what do I know..
Every morning before I go to the NICU I get a call from the actual doctor telling me how she is doing and the status of her weening, but when I get there about a hour later to feed her the doctor will come in and say Mrs. Jarrell she could be in here for quite some time from weeks to months...
I literally almost fell out of my chair when she said months... I was thinking to myself - yes she will be in here months if you keep giving her Morphine...
ugh, I am just so upset and sad that she is not home with me, she has been in the NICU since Monday & I pray and pray that she does well everyday & her scores are low so she CAN just come home with me...
Thanks again everyone I am trying so hard to cope with this.. I just wish I had a date or something!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:30 am 
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Hi bellasmommy,
I am so sorry you are going through this. I can only imagine how difficult it is for you and your husband. There is little comfort in a weeks to months scenario but hopefully its sooner than you think.
We are all hoping for the best,


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:23 pm 
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Hello BellasMommy9↓
I have 4 children and my youngest (15 mnths) was born addicted to subutex. I was on suboxone and didn't know i was prego til i was about 4 mnths along and that's when i switched over to subutex..i was a nervous wreck!! Since she was my 1st and only baby to be born into this world already hooked on drugs..they kept her in NICU for 8 wks total..while she was there, they had her on morphine and phenobarbital. .they slowly weened her off of the morphine over the course of those 8 wks. When we finally got to bring her home, they sent her home with us while she was still on the phenobarbital and so we had to administer it to her at home. They told us that she would outgrow the medication and that we didn't have to ween her off since her weight would eventually exceed the required dose and it would stop working. As she grew, i took her off the medication cold turkey like i was advised and she still had withdrawals..naturally i put her back on it and i went against their advice and started to ween her myself. I told the doctors i was doing this and they said it was fine..she was off it in 2 wks.she is now a happy, beautiful, healthy 15 month old baby girl!! I know exactly what you are feeling right now..sadness, guilt, loneliness cause you can't bring her home. Just know that this will pass and she is going to be just fine. I wish you both well..


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:20 am 
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Hi there bellasmommy9, are you breastfeeding or using a formula milk? Because when my daughter is still a baby she does not sleep for more than 2 hours because of formula milk, but when I heard with other moms that breastfeeding can really put a baby into a longer sleep. Let me also share here with you a site I have been using to track my ovulation period and I hope it could also help others. http://www.ovulation-predictor.org/ovulation/


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:46 pm 
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I had a baby 5 years ago while on methadone maintenece she spent 9 days in the NICU and I was sent home with a script to provide her morphine at home. I live in Maryland and fortunately the hospital where I gave birth allowed us to go home while she was still weaning from the morphine. Some hospitals have policies where the baby has to stay until completely weaned and in my daughters case, she would have had to stay 2 months if that were the case. Do you know what the policy is for discharge? I'd look into speaking with whomever is the head of the NICU where you precious little one is so you're all on the same page as to expectiations and what their policies are regarding you particular situation. Also try to see if there is a pattern in the way your baby is scored by specific nurses as some scoring is very subjective and I noticed a great variance in scores from different nurses. Some were more familiar with what symptoms were actual withdrawal and what was just normal neonate behavior. Some were more compassionate and others were very discrimatory of my situation. My advice is just gather as much info on policy and procedure as possible so you know what to expect going forward


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