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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:13 am 
hatmaker510 wrote:
Firstly, Suboxowned, when you quoted me you left out a HUGE part of what I said, which is at best disingenuous. I was referring to the qualities of addiction and if they could occur in people on suboxone treatment.

Secondly, asking people for support is not the same thing as hanging on to their opinion for approval. I might reach out and ask this site for their support or opinion on an issue I'm having, but it doesn't mean I necessarily care what they think OF me. There IS a difference. It's like throwing the fact that a person asked for help in their face. And that truly is NOT what this forum is for. Many of you have accused people of stifling opinions, but do you really want to stop a person in addiction recovery from asking for help? Because that's sure what it sounds like. There are posts here that ask for support and there are posts that simply want to explain their opinion (as well as many other kinds). Those two different kinds of threads should be self-evident. I'm appalled that anyone would suggest that because a person had a strong opinion on this thread that they shouldn't then reach out on another thread.

If any of you don't want a pro-suboxone forum, that's an issue within you, but it's not the problem with the forum. That has never been hidden. And if you are angry at a medication (how can you be angry at a pill?), that's certainly not the fault of that pill or the people who do well on it.

And lastly, thanks Dr. J for your typically well-reasoned response. It is always a pleasure to have your input.
Im not angry at a pill I am angry at myself for choosing an over hyped medication oh and lets not forget over priced when a tried and proven effective medication (methadone) was right there at my disposal all I had to do was go get on it but no I bought into all the hype of this "miracle drug" and should of known better. I have every right to voice that suboxone doesnt work for me and I dont think its the right medication for me. I could see through all the phony suboxone talk as soon as I joined this site and its bothersome. This thread has sealed it for me, if you have anything to say besides "omg suboxone is the greatest it saved my life its a miracle" then you get attitude from the "oldtimers" of this site. This site is kinda like 12 step groups honestly, dont agree with us we will jump all over you. Just give it time pro sub people one day this med is gonna turn on you and cause nothing but headaches, nausea, anxiety, and have you sleeping 14 hours a night effortlessly and still waking up and feeling like you cant get you ass outta bed because you feel like a slug. Lifesaver, queenie, laddertripper and BBoy I still would enjoy talking to you guys so if you want to PM me I could give you my AIM screen name and we could chat through there if you'd like because I wont be posting for awhile or possibly anymore and Id still like to keep in contact with you guys.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:59 pm 
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I've held my tongue for weeks, perhaps months, but that ends now. I'm very sorry Suboxowened that you are not getting what you had hoped for from Suboxone. I'm sorry that it doesn't work for you. Frankly I very strongly believe that what you hoped for is to get high. You are still in active addiction, my friend. You want that warm opiate feeling. You want to escape and feel like you did on the poppy tea. You are correct, methadone is likely to give you more of what you are looking for. There is a reason that methadone is the leading cause of overdose death among prescription opiates. More people die from methadone overdose than any other prescribed opiate. For most people, methadone is the "old school" way of treating opiate addiction. It has been around a long time. I equate it very much to the early antidepressant drugs that came out. I am speaking of tricyclic antidepressants. They were all we had years ago. They were very dangerous and easy to overdose on. They had a lot of side effects. Yet, that's all we had. We now have third generation antidepressant drugs (SSRI, etc.) that are much, much safer, very difficult to overdose on, and have far fewer side effects. That is a lot like Suboxone. It is nearly impossible to overdose on – unless taken with other drugs or alcohol. It has far fewer side effects. You don't have to drive to a clinic every day of your life to get the dose. Yeah, it is expensive - just like Lexipro costs a lot more than amitriptyline does.

I have seen you dream, fantasize and lust after being on methadone for months now. You tell us you have never been on it, yet you are absolutely, positively certain that it is going to be anything and everything that you need... and a bag of chips. How can you possibly know that or be so sure when you've never taken it? You are guessing and you are hoping - much like it sounds like you did with Suboxone. Honestly, I hope it works for you. But if you think that you are taking a step forward by having to go to a clinic every single day, I just don't see it. It's one thing when you are unemployed and have the time. Imagine if you had a job and a family? It would and will really suck having to go get your medication everyday. Yeah, eventually you'll be able to get some take homes and perhaps even get down to once a week. Ha Whew!!! Once a week, while the rest of us go to the pharmacy once a month (or less). The cost of the drug itself might be cheaper. Now let's add in the cost of gas round trip everyday not to mention your time. I guess if you have nothing else that you have to do, it won't matter if you spend an hour each day but for many people that hour is very valuable to them. Imagine spending 30 hours a month or 360 hours (15 days) each year just picking up a medication? And that’s based on an hour. It may well be much more by the time you drive there, stand in line, do what needs to be done and then drive back home. I have absolutely no doubt that many people spend one month out of every year just getting their methadone!

Suboxone is not a miracle drug. It is a tool to be used as an overall treatment plan for opiate addiction. It would be nice of such a miracle cure pill did exist, but it just does not. Methadone is no more of a miracle cure. If it works for you, then great. I just have reviewed the side effects and downsides and they don't at all compare to Suboxone. As for the coming doom that you claim we are all going to suffer, that just simply is not true. There are all sorts of people on Suboxone for years and years and years and they have not reported that "one day this med turned on them and cause nothing but headaches, nausea, anxiety, and had them sleeping 14 hours a night effortlessly and still waking up and feeling like they cant get their ass outta bed because they feel like a slug." It simply doesn't happen - and if it does, it is due to other things going on – not to the Suboxone.

I'm just going to be honest with you here, every opiate addict has a lot of work to do – and that includes you. They need to be productive in society - by that I mean hold down a job - or if not that, then be involved with volunteer work or whatever it is that keeps them productive everyday. They need to work on what caused them to get to the point they are at. They need to further their education. They need to do whatever works for them to address their addiction, whether that is including counseling, 12-step meetings, reading, on-line forums, or all of the above. Just taking a pill will rarely fix it.

Your anger comes through loud and clear but it's not only anger at Suboxone, it's anger at the whole situation you find yourself in. I feel bad that this has all happened to you, but only you can take the steps to work your way out of it. Getting your GED is a great start. Getting back to full-time work is another goal that I hope is on your list. If not, it should be – and it should be a daily quest at this point. I'm very afraid that the same "mistake" you made in getting on Suboxone is about to be repeated as you think that the new answer to all of your problems is getting on methadone. It is not. It just simply is not. Without a doubt your Suboxone dose is too low. Getting your dose up may, and probably will, help. But unless and until you start all of the other work, history is about to repeat itself.

I guess now you can add me to the list of people you hate around here. So be it. I mean no harm or malice towards you whatsoever. I just see someone really struggling and hope he soon finds his way. I just don't at all think that getting in line everyday at the methadone clinic is the path to nirvana that you seem to think it is. I certainly hope you prove me wrong. I just very much doubt that is going to happen.


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 Post subject: donh is right
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:10 pm 
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Sorry to chime in with this I like to be positive on here. Suboxowned, I have seen you posting since you signed up about how you want to be on methadone and sub sucks etc... your dose is def too low but I have seen others suggest that over and over, I'm sorry you can't afford a bigger dose but I'm sure it would make all the difference in the world. I dont want to debate what is better I just wanted to share that I have a good friend that would kill to be on suboxone and is going through hell trying to taper down his methadone and start sub. He hates going every day as he has for many years. He recently went on vacation and it was such a pain for him- he was meeting and staying with his new girlfriends parents and had to go sneak out every day as a guest patient in a strange state. Sorry to say but I agree with what donh says and also; what is stopping your from starting on methadone?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:24 pm 
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suboxOWNED wrote:
Just give it time pro sub people one day this med is gonna turn on you and cause nothing but headaches, nausea, anxiety, and have you sleeping 14 hours a night effortlessly and still waking up and feeling like you cant get you ass outta bed because you feel like a slug.


Suboxowned, you have again stated something as fact when it is very clearly NOT. You've been warned about doing this and the only conclusion I can come to is that you are doing it intentionally. I'm sorry to have to call you on this publicly, but I simply cannot and will not have people reading this and accepting it for fact when it is most definitely NOT.

That said, if you have any questions or would like to communicate with me about this, by all means send me a PM.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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 Post subject: Re: donh is right
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:51 pm 
glen bee wrote:
Sorry to chime in with this I like to be positive on here. Suboxowned, I have seen you posting since you signed up about how you want to be on methadone and sub sucks etc... your dose is def too low but I have seen others suggest that over and over, I'm sorry you can't afford a bigger dose but I'm sure it would make all the difference in the world. I dont want to debate what is better I just wanted to share that I have a good friend that would kill to be on suboxone and is going through hell trying to taper down his methadone and start sub. He hates going every day as he has for many years. He recently went on vacation and it was such a pain for him- he was meeting and staying with his new girlfriends parents and had to go sneak out every day as a guest patient in a strange state. Sorry to say but I agree with what donh says and also; what is stopping your from starting on methadone?
Ive been on a high dose of suboxone so I know what both low dose and high dose suboxone is like so that wouldnt make much difference. If your friend is going everyday to the clinic then he either is going to a clinic that does not follow the rules and wont give him take homes or he continues to relapse and drug test dirty and is not getting take homes because of it. The clinic I will eventualy go to allows 3 take homes a week after 6 months and then 5 takes homes after 9 months of clean urine tests so I would not be going everyday I would only go every monday and wednesday after only 9 months. What is stopping me from going on methadone? Well the methadone clinic is full and I will have a hard time getting on it since Im not in active addiction and on sub and I would most likely have to relapse in order to get on it which is out of the question. If I use I got to jail for 365 days so yeah thats whats keeping me from getting on it. Im not some newb I know all about suboxone and how it works Ive been on high and low doses like I said so "my dose being way to low" would not make all the difference in the world for me. I will tough it out with sub until the clinic has an opening and I convince them to take me because sub isnt holding me. Oh and one other thing you have not seen me posting since the day I signed up saying "sub sucks I want methadone" because I used to praise suboxone to anyone and everyone when I first joined here until it stopped working for me, Ive also to my recollection never said it "sucks" (maybe once and I forgot but I dont think so) ive said "I dont like it and it doesnt work for me" which is true Ive been struggling with it aside from like the first month or 2 the entire time regardless of being on 16mg-4mg.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:33 pm 
donh wrote:
I've held my tongue for weeks, perhaps months, but that ends now. I'm very sorry Suboxowened that you are not getting what you had hoped for from Suboxone. I'm sorry that it doesn't work for you. Frankly I very strongly believe that what you hoped for is to get high. You are still in active addiction, my friend. You want that warm opiate feeling. You want to escape and feel like you did on the poppy tea. You are correct, methadone is likely to give you more of what you are looking for. There is a reason that methadone is the leading cause of overdose death among prescription opiates. More people die from methadone overdose than any other prescribed opiate.
I have seen you dream, fantasize and lust after being on methadone for months now. You tell us you have never been on it, yet you are absolutely, positively certain that it is going to be anything and everything that you need... and a bag of chips. How can you possibly know that or be so sure when you've never taken it? You are guessing and you are hoping - I guess if you have nothing else that you have to do, it won't matter if you spend an hour each day but for many people that hour is very valuable to them. \. It . Methadone is no more of a miracle cure. If it works for you, then great. I just have reviewed the side effects and downsides and they don't at all compare to Suboxone. As for the coming I'm just going to be honest with you here, every opiate addict has a lot of work to do – and that includes you. They need to do whatever works for them to address their addiction, whether that is including counseling, 12-step meetings, reading, on-line forums, or all of the above. Just taking a pill will rarely fix it.

But unless and until you start all of the other work, history is about to repeat itself.

I guess now you can add me to the list of people you hate around here. So be it. I mean no harm or malice towards you whatsoever..
Wow you sure think you know me dont you man? I hoped for suboxone to cause a high and thats why I got on it? So back in july when I called up the methadone clinic and they had open slots and told me I could set up an appointment and come in and talk with them I chose to get on suboxone instead to get a high when I know methadone is a full agonist and would give me that opiated feeling? That makes a whole lot of sense. Oh and Im still in active addiction you said? Apparently you dont know the definition of Active because that means you are out using still and Im 5 months clean. Your facts about methadone arent correct either, methadone by itself is not the leading cause of overdose deaths its a combination of methadone and a benzo or alcohol that kills more people than it by itself. How can I be sure it will work better for me when I have never taken it? Well poppy pod tea is often referred to as "natural methadone" as some heroin addicts will use it to maintain when they cant get H and it feels very similar to methadone and has a half life that is almost identical, I have friends who are on methadone and used pods with me and said the same that pods feel almost identical to it aside from the pods being a bit more euphoric and "a full well rounded high" compared to methadone. I dont "fantasize" about methadone either I fantasize about not craving like I do with suboxone and knowing from experience since Ive been on high doses of sub before that a dosage raise isnt gonna do much at all. You also say I have a lot of work to do as if Im just taking suboxone and sitting on my ass. You obviously havent read any of my other posts then or you would see that I go to intensive outpatient, i attend 3 or more 12 step meetings a week and Im actively seeking employment and will have my GED within the next 2 months. You also say that "my time isnt valuable to me because I have nothing else to do" and other people would value the hour they lose having to spend at the clinic each day, who the hell do you think you are telling me something like that? Do you know me nope and it pisses me off that you sit up on some high horse acting as if you are somehow better than me and also know how I spend my time. You act as if your better than me, sorry but you being on what is it 32mgs of suboxone that your on wouldnt make you any better of a person or more "clean" than me when I get on methadone. Its real mature to insult my character and me as a person because I say I dont do well on a medication, its about the most ridiculous thing Ive ever seen. Oh and one more thing just like you said to me "i want that warm opiate feeling" so do you bud thats the reason you are on suboxone everyone on maintenance is on it because they crave that feeling.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:51 pm 
SuboxoWNED:

Sorry you were attacked!! Yet again something else "I" see that happens from time to time because somebody doesnt agree with suboxone. You are doing very well man!! Keep up what your doing and hopefully you'll be able to switch to the med that works best for you. I've been on methadone before. "For me" it was much more effective than suboxone. It gives you a buzz for a bit but after you adjust to it, you level out just like you do with suboxone. Anyways, my main reason for commenting now is because i think it was a bit much for you to get attacked when i've seen many post where all you talk about is going to your outpatient treatment, your 12 step meetins and even the counselor that you mentioned. Hows that going? Good i hope!! Well, hang in their and hopefully things will work themselves out very soon!! peace


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