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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:45 pm 
I am honestly laugin out loud at this!! My whole point has been made in this very thread!! The evidence of what i am saying speaks for itself in this very thread.

I am absolutely shocked how laddertipper has been treated. Saying its all in her head. Are you her doctor? Im sorry but im a bit angered even more after reading through all these post. I think its clear what my point was and honestly, i could not have picked a better way to produce such evidence. If people would open their eyes its not too hard to see whats goin on here!! And as somebody said, i dont mean that to anyone in particular. I appreciate all people who have commented on this thread, i really do. I am just overwelmed at how right i was in my beliefs. Its unbelievable!!

Jackcrack: Im not a girl and i think you may have known that. Since were are so capable of expressing our "own" opinions, i feel like some of what you said were sneaky little low blows like the whole callin me a she thing and something else but i would have to go back an read again to remember it.

I have nothing against anyone here at all. And to someone who ask about the whole PM'n that goes on, yep it surely does. People PM me a lot saying how much they appreciate me starting this thread because it made them feel more comfortable with speaking the truth to their situation. If people cant even speak their truth, then something is wrong. Laddertipper spoke her truth and someone flat out said, ITS ALL IN YOUR HEAD. That is like telling someone they are crazy, in other words!!

Like i said, my point has been made here loud and clear. I really hope things can get a bit better because this forum has great potential if it could lose the whole pro-suboxone thing. It should be open for any discussion without telling someone their crazy. Of course saying their crazy in other words makes it ok though huh? peace


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:24 pm 
Sorry laddertipper!! I was thinking of someone else when i called you a "her" lol. My mistake. Hope you didnt take offense to that.


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 Post subject: LOLOLOL!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Nope, no offense taken, especially cause i AM a her!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:37 pm 
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Could you quote the person who said it's all in her head? I don't see that statement anywhere, but I see do see where Jackcrack said three times that "no one said it was in her head". I think it's important to accurately quote something that you're referencing.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:25 pm 
I can tell you this right now, i will go right back through all the post and if its not their then it got deleted because im not crazy!! I saw it plain and clear it was said that it is all in her head. Im bout to look right now. will gladly quote it, if it hasnt been deleted. I know i read it because i read every post extremely thorough


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:35 pm 
OMG what is this world coming to?!?! I know damn well this thread has since been altered and im not stupid so dont try to convince me it hasnt. I know what i read and i find it highly convenient that Jackracks post now says, "no one said its in your head." Hmm how convenient huh? This is a joke!! I cannot believe this!! Im done here for now. I know what i saw and im sure their are others that did as well but may not be able to say so. This is just wrong on so many levels!! I will not be made to think im crazy!! I know what i read and i also know this thread has been altered!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:50 pm 
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First of all, I am not mad and when I made the last post, I was laughing hysterically because I find this entire thread totally fucking hillarious.

Second of all, I apologize Lifesaver that I thought you were a "she" but I guarantee there is no conspiracy or intent to dig at you or anything, but this again supports the research Hatmaker mentioned in her earlier post. Unfortunately with all the online names sometimes it is difficult to tell if someone is a he or a she and if I didn't sign my name to the bottom of each post I guarantee you would think I was a he and I am not. Jackcrack is my DOG. In case you were curious......he's a "HE".

Third is that AGAIN, Laddertipper picks out the little part of the post that she thinks supports her opinion and then runs with it totally ignoring the overall content or the big picture message. Furthermore, you repeatedly accuse the forum of being mean and closed minded and then you accuse me of being snarky and mean when I try to defend myself. I can totally guarantee Laddertipper that you haven't heard a damn thing from any of my posts or Donh's post or Hatmaker's post or anyone else's post if it didn't totally support your original opinion. You are giving lip service to try and show that you are open minded while others are not but your lip service doesn't work when thrown in at the end of a post and when it totally contradicts everything else you are saying with the bulk of your message. This too I find hilarious. You can't really say "no offense" because you are being "offensive" only you don't quite seem to get that part of it. This I also find funny.

Lifesaver - no one altered a post anywhere. But the fact that you are so CERTAIN that it HAD to be altered and that you thought you would make this thread and just hear everyone say it is all in people's heads (which none of them ever said to begin with anyways on any other thread either) just FURTHER supports the research Hatmaker mentioned. This I also find totally hilarious. Since you STARTED this thread, why don't you go back and take the time to find where people were told this stuff was all in their head to begin with. Or give examples of what you are talking about as I have yet to be convinced that it exists. Maybe when put in context it will make more sense to me.

Until then, I think this thread speaks very well for itself.

Oh......one more point to make. For lifesaver to be correct that there is a conspiracy and someone altered one of my posts, they would have had to totally alter not only a word or two, but the ENTIRE message in each of the posts. They would basically have to re-write them. Is it "possible"? Well......we better answer "yes" to that under the circumstances. Is it "probable"? No.

There are so many other hilarious things about this thread.......but I will save those for my PM's because the rest of you just wouldn't understand.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:25 pm 
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No one edited any of the posts on this thread. Besides, to delete part of a post it would have to have been edited by a moderator, and I'm the only moderator on this thread. I did not delete anything. Plus, if an edit was made, it would say so right at the bottom of that post and would include the date and time of the edit.

I'm sure you simply read too fast (or something) when Jackcrack said "I don't see anyone saying it is in your head" and you misread it and took it to mean she was saying it was in her head, when in fact she was saying the exact opposite. I'm sure it was a harmless, unintentional error on your part in misunderstanding what was written. At least that's what I choose to believe.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:33 pm 
Im pretty disheartened by this thread to be honest, maybe no one is directly saying "its all in our heads" to us who bring up side effects but its certainly being implied and those of us who are saying we have side effects arent telling others that its impossible that they arent having them, everybody is different and addiction treatment is not one size fits all. Im gonna be flat out honest and say I DON'T LIKE SUBOXONE and am only on it for the sole benefit of getting a 30 day Rx from a doc and not having to daily dose at a clinic other than that I see no benefit in going on suboxone over methadone, its more expensive, its not good at curbing mental cravings, strong withdrawal not much if any less intense than methadone, has a ceiling effect, prevents pain meds from working for an extended amount of time until its out of your system so in the event that you seriously get hurt you are F*cked. What if tomorrow I get in a car wreck and a fire starts and I get 3rd degree burns all over my body? I guess Id just have to tough it out :roll:. The longer Im on suboxone the more I feel that its best use would be as a short term detox tool and in the beginning I would defend it to the death that it should be for long term maintenance. I think methadone maintenance would work much better and then when you wanted to come off the methadone if you decided you could use subs for 7-14 days to lessen the blow and get through the withdrawal. Thats what I think would work best for me I dont mean everyone else because I know sub works fine for a lot of people but Im not one of them. Ive even thought about using suboxone like you would use benzos for panic attacks, only on an as needed basis for strong cravings that arise, I think if i were to use it like that I would actualy see that it can be effective but when taking it everyday I feel like its doing nothing. If I had the ability to start dosing only like once every 3 days that would be pretty great because it would feel much more effective but obviously Id probably be in withdrawal most of the time so Ive never tried it, since Im doing so poorly on it right now I may just do an experiment and give it a try.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:02 pm 
Im so so glad you find this thread hilarious Jackcrack!! I didnt start it for people to find it hilarious. It was started to speak how "I" felt and to get some things off my mind. It went a couple different directions but for the most part i dont see whats so damn funny about it. I will give you the fact that i can understand the whole name thing. I've honestly thought for awhile that you were a guy but then after readin enough of your post i could tell you were not. So, that i will admit and i apologize for taking it the way i did.

Just an FYI: Im not freakin uneducated nor am i stupid. NO, NO ONE SAID I WAS BUT YOU ARE INSINUATING IT BY SAYING I DIDNT READ WHAT I KNOW I READ. Its pretty funny you both make the same exact point saying pretty much the exact same words. That in order to change a post you would have to rearrange the whole post. Well, with a little creative thinking thats not hard to do.

And i've seen post that were completely changed that said absolutely nothing about them being edited so that i dont believe either. This site is great for all its information but it is seriously flawed. Laugh all you want too but i know how this site operates. I've been on both sides of the fence with this site. The side that always says so many great things about suboxone and discredits anything bad about it. Now im on the side that i feel is actually reality because sub is not perfect and for people to say shit like, "Oh no, i've never heard of sub do that, it must be something else" or the famous, "YOu just took the words right out of my mouth. I couldnt have said it better myself" when someone says something about a side effect they are almost forced to either agree with it and bow down or keep their mouth shut. THESE ARE ALL MY OPINIONS AND I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR EVERYTHING I AM SAYING SO IF I GET KICKED OFF FOR SPEAKIN MY TRUE FEELINGS THAN I GUESS I WILL HAVE MY ANSWER ABOUT THIS SITE. I have always loved this site, i really have!! But something just doesnt quite sit right with me with the vibe of things. And you can say this thread is hilarious all you want too but i can guarantee you their are more people that agee with what i've said that just dont want to admit it. Im done ranting for now. LIKE HAS BEEN SAID, WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO OUR OPINIONS AND ALL I'VE DONE IS EXPRESS MINE JUST AS I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. The only single thing left that i can think of at this time is, their are just a couple people here that im not quite able to figure out what it is exactly that their purpose is. If i dont respond right away, i havent ran off but i've been doing other things besides this every day. Or maybe i got kicked off who knows. I just think im gettin too close to the truth with this site and its settin a few people ass's on fire. peace


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:14 pm 
Oh, i will never bash sub and you can see that is not anything i've done in this thread as thats not my intent nor will it ever be. Im thankful for sub, i truly am but i do not think its right for me anymore. FOR ME, it does absolutely ZERO and it used to be so damn great in the beginning for the first year or so. It does not work like it used to thats for sure. I agree with the statement someone made about sub is like having a hardcore opiate habit with all the good sucked out of the opiate. Your still gonna have to go through withdrawal. Withdrawal is different for everybody. Some it may be mild. Others it may seem like pure hell. I dont know yet but may soon be finding out if things keep going like their going. I truly wish sub did work like it did in the beginning because i dont wanna have to switch to methadone, but i will if it means i keep my sobriety. Thats all im looking for in the end is my sobriety. I've stayed drug free for 21 months now and i would like to keep it that way but im not so sure i will be able to with sub.

I got one more thing i would like to say. Whoever said this thread is so hilarious, if its so hilarious why is it full of defensive post. Whats to defend? If none of its true, why be soooo defensive?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:20 pm 
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I gave you the benefit of the doubt by saying you unintentionally misread or misunderstood what was said. I did not say, insinuate, intimate, nor intend that you are stupid and I think you know that. I will say it again - nothing on this thread has been edited or deleted; there is no conspiracy here.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:13 pm 
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It just keeps getting better! :lol:

I don't know why so many of you have written so many defensive sounding posts. Maybe it's because you are WRONG. You absolutely don't know what you read since nothing has been changed. It is odd that both of us might say that don't you think? I mean.........I know what I said so I am telling you I never said it was in anyone's head which has been my entire point since the first post. Hatmaker is the moderator and she is the only other one who theoretically "could" change it and she is merely trying to assure you she did not change anything and what it would look like if she had. But in your mind, if I tell you I never changed anything, you STILL find a reason to make yet another FALSE accusation. So now, I am a FRAUD and a LIAR too. Don't forget to throw in that whole "no offense" comment. :lol: :lol: :lol:

You have your right to your own opinion but you do not have a right to your own facts. Part of the problem with this whole thread is the confusion between these two things. There is just something that doesn't sit right with me when I am being accused of things I haven't actually said or done. Call me crazy....but my general response is to say "no I didn't". But according to you, if I say "no I didn't", I am lying, being defensive, or re-affirming the original accusation that I did say or do something. What could anyone have possibly said in response to this thread that would have been satisfactory? Would they have to admit to something they didn't say or do? Would they have to pretend there wasn't a false accusation and just say "I'm sorry you feel this way". I mean........what did you want people to say in response to this thread? Or a better question would be what did Laddertipper want?

So again, I still find this thread hilarious and it was funny before but adding the conspiracy theory into it just makes it funnier.

And again, I am sorry you feel afraid to post how you feel on the forum. I certainly don't think everything is in your head and at the risk of being accused of all kinds of new things will say again that I don't see anyone saying this to you. I don't think anyone here is trying to deny that you are unhappy in your current situation. I don't think anyone here is trying to say you are wrong about how YOU feel. I am certainly not saying that either.

I will also say that with the craziness of this thread and the strength of certain convictions, I cannot help but see active addiction through and through some of this whole thing which I find very scary.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:27 pm 
Its pretty clear that "im" not scared to say how i feel as thats exactly what i've done in this thread.

:roll: :roll: Im done with all this because its become very counterproductive. Like i've said, MY POINT HERE HAS BEEN MADE LOUD AND CLEAR.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:57 pm 
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Man I have an idea if you don't think sub is helping you at all I would suggest slowly lower your dose to about three or four mgs a day and see how that does. Sometimes little is better. If it wasent helping at all I believe I would have to try something else and give sub up and see where another addction med does for you

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:29 pm 
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JackCrack said, "I find this entire thread totally fucking hillarious"

I know from a post I made earlier, that you agreed with my having a side effect (the irrational fear). So I'm pretty sure that you didn't find that post hilarious.

But since then I have made a few more posts on this thread and I'm kind of wondering if you thought my other posts in this thread were hilarious? I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant, but you did say the entire thread was hilarious.

I tried to make my posts as clear and informative as I could. I usually proof read them to make sure they are saying what I want, which doesn't always happen. I do try to put at least a decent amount of thought into my posts too, as I'm sure many others do as well.

I have to say I took a small amount of offense to your statement. Nothing earth shattering, but I did cringe a little bit.

It's been a while since I read this entire thread, but I think there are many other posts by other members that I didn't find hilarious. I guess I could go back and read this entire thread, but I really don't feel like it.

Again, I don't think you were really referring to the 'entire' thread, but you did say that and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind clearing this up?

BTW, I don't find this thread hilarious. I think there are a lot of people here with very strong opinions who would like the other to at least see their side of the argument, but it doesn't seem to be working too well. I think if anything, it's unfortunate.

I edited out an errant "that".....Romeo


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 Post subject: Cherie/jackcrack
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:41 am 
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You just continue to bash me and it makes no sense. At the risk of giving you some satisfaction, I will tell you that it absolutely DOES hurt my feelings. And quite a lot. Your opinions certainly did not go over my head. However, the way in which they were delivered totally destroyed their value. You say that you are laughing at this whole thing and that it just keeps getting better. No, it's not getting better. It's gotten really mean, and you are the main source of the current meanness. All your cursing and sarcasm and maniacal insinuations really weren't justified. You are obviously dealing with a lot of anger issues and that anger is bleeding into the way you respond to people on here. I'm sorry you are having such a tough time, but like I said, my feelings really are hurt. This will really make you laugh. I actually started crying when I read that last little dig. How lame is that, huh? :lol: There is a person behind 'laddertipper'. It's not just some random name on a forum. Please try to remember that when you are composing your responses. I'm not going to collect a bunch of your quotes and come back at you with a big paragraph because it would only escalate this and I'm not going to keep giving you a reason to take your frustrations out on me anymore. And I wrote this straight from my heart (after rereading the thread three times).

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:01 am 
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Tripper im only going to come to this site for random questions. Its mainly at this time people who want to whine about Suboxone or bash people like us for whine about having an opinion about side affects .block them out tripper head

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:42 am 
wade wrote:
Man I have an idea if you don't think sub is helping you at all I would suggest slowly lower your dose to about three or four mgs a day and see how that does. Sometimes little is better. If it wasent helping at all I believe I would have to try something else and give sub up and see where another addction med does for you

Speaking as a person who has been on high dose sub and is now on low dose suboxone changing to a lower dose isnt going to do jack shit except make you start to feel bouts of physical withdrawal. Once "stabilized" on sub and being on it for a number of months it doesn't have any effect at all, well except for negative side effects that is. Swapping bupe for opiate addiction is like swapping marjiuana for cigarettes, sure you still get to smoke but you aren't getting the effect you desire, same with bupe and the only reason I take it is because Im now strongly addicted to it, YES ADDICTED TO IT, I dont buy into the whole your not addicted to bupe your dependant on it crap. The people who quote that defense of bupe all the time saying they are dependant and not addicted use the line "I just take my suboxone when I wake up and then forget it about it and go about my day" but they are the same people who come on a forum dedicated to suboxone and sit here and talk about suboxone all day and id be willing to bet everyone of them who thinks they arent addicted would be running around like a chicken with its head cut off if something happened to wear they ran out and couldnt get their script filled for a few days and had to go without it, people who arent addicted wouldnt act that way if they had to go without for a few days they would just deal with it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:24 am 
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Once "stabilized" on sub and being on it for a number of months it doesn't have any effect at all, well except for negative side effects that is. Swapping bupe for opiate addiction is like swapping marjiuana for cigarettes, sure you still get to smoke but you aren't getting the effect you desire...(emphasis mine)


The underlined statement was presented as fact, when instead it should have been given as personal opinion. Please take care to avoid such statements in the future.

We've discussed the whole "addiction vs dependence" thing many, many times here, just as we have discussed switching one addiction for another. The difference has to do with how the person uses the drug. Having withdrawals alone when ending treatment abruptly does not mean one is addicted to it.

Addiction is characterized by one or more of the following behaviors:

* Poor control over drug use
* Compulsive drug use
* Continued use of a drug despite physical, mental and/or social harm
* A craving for the drug

Do these items apply to my use of suboxone? No. Do they apply to yours? Only you can answer that. But based on the posts here, I've not seen anyone who exhibits such behaviors. Personally, I don't believe these things occur in people in stable suboxone treatment. However, can these things occur in a person on suboxone who is not in healthy recovery? Yes, I suppose they can, but it's terribly unlikely. And even if it does apply to a minuscule amount of the people, IT ABSOLUTELY DOESN'T MEAN IT APPLIES TO EVERYONE. That's the problem with stating such things as FACT when there are actually one person's opinion.

Please try to keep in mind that one person's opinion about something doesn't necessarily indicate something about that person's psyche. It is only indicative that people continue to see things differently. Neither side is wrong or bad. Laughter or tears just means people continue to have different opinions. That's all it means.

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