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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:48 am 
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christin wrote:
Well.... my three-day supply of liquified Suboxone lasted only 2.5 :(
I'm not sure if I took a bit too much each time or if some got lost in the medicine syringe. :?
Whichever, I mixed up a new batch and just kept on going.

On Saturday, I took half of a tablet because I was feeling so horrible and had to get a lot done for my son's graduation. Sunday, I took 1/4 tablet. Monday, I went back on the liquified method. I woke with a horrible headache on Monday, which lasted until Wednesday evening. I don't know if the headache has anything to do with the Suboxone taper. I'm just really glad that it's gone :D

I'm hoping that this 3-day supply of 2mg lasts the entire 3 days.


I get a headache when I drop. I wouldn't call them excruciating, but they are annoying and sometimes make me feel a little sick to my stomach. Kinda like a hangover? I'm pretty sure it's the Sub.

I've heard that some of the medicine gets lost in the syringe. So, I'd guess that's what happened and not that you took too much. I know when I give my kids medicine using the dropper, there's always a tiny bit left in that thing.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:05 pm 
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A little update. My life has been very busy and crazy. I needed to take a trip to Buffalo with my son for college orientation, so I dragged out my old strips and decided to try cutting them rather than have to travel with liquified Sub. As always, the first couple of days were successful (ahhh... the benefits of such a long half-life!).

Last week was so incredibly busy, though, that I didnt properly divide the strips and often took much too little. I didn't let the periodic withdrawals get to me, until Friday night. I woke in the middle of the night.... horrible. I guess that I forget how horrible the anxiety can be, how desperate I can feel to not feel that way. It was late and I feared that I wouldn't sleep if I took more Sub, but I had to take more. It was either that or swallow a whole handful of whatever I could get a hold of. I was awake all night, but I didn't use (at least that's the point that my sponsor is making).

I need to be more careful on my dosing. I start to feel really good and I think that I can successfully cut down faster than I should. It comes back to bite me every time! Then, I end up feeling as though I'm not at all ready to stop.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:35 am 
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christin wrote:
A little update. My life has been very busy and crazy. I needed to take a trip to Buffalo with my son for college orientation, so I dragged out my old strips and decided to try cutting them rather than have to travel with liquified Sub. As always, the first couple of days were successful (ahhh... the benefits of such a long half-life!).

Last week was so incredibly busy, though, that I didnt properly divide the strips and often took much too little. I didn't let the periodic withdrawals get to me, until Friday night. I woke in the middle of the night.... horrible. I guess that I forget how horrible the anxiety can be, how desperate I can feel to not feel that way. It was late and I feared that I wouldn't sleep if I took more Sub, but I had to take more. It was either that or swallow a whole handful of whatever I could get a hold of. I was awake all night, but I didn't use (at least that's the point that my sponsor is making).

I need to be more careful on my dosing. I start to feel really good and I think that I can successfully cut down faster than I should. It comes back to bite me every time! Then, I end up feeling as though I'm not at all ready to stop.


Dude, I FEEL you!! I've gone to sleep a few times without dosing just to see what happens. I guess I wonder if maybe I'll wake up the next day feeling kinda icky but not too bad and realize I went a whole day and didn't dose. However, I wake up in the terrible, horrible, hellish anxiety and, man, it is SO BAD! There needs to be a separate term for that besides 'anxiety' because it's not a good enough word.. I get exactly what you're saying about 'grabbing a handful of something' because I'd grab a handful of any damn thing that would stop that feeling. I think it would be much better to stay up all night and face that anxiety little by little than to wake up in the middle of it. Make sure you dose before bed!!!!

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:52 am 
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laddertipper wrote:
I wake up in the terrible, horrible, hellish anxiety and, man, it is SO BAD! There needs to be a separate term for that besides 'anxiety' because it's not a good enough word.

LT... How similar our experiences can be! It's no wonder that one addict can best help another addict. Honestly, no one else would get it (thank God, for them!).

When I told my sponsor about what happened, I listed all the adjectives and co-occurring feelings of fear and insanity and desperation and being caged inside myself, needing to gnaw something off to "get me the hell out of my skin!" and wanting to cry and to scream and to numb.... something so that I wouldn't feel the "anxiety" any longer. You are so right! The word "anxiety" is so inadequate. This "anxiety" is what would do me in when trying to quit the oxys too.

This past weekend was frightening. The desperation to stop feeling the anxiety was so immense that I could completely understand why it was that I went back to using when not on Suboxone. Although, I've been told that the power of choice is returned to addicts when they stop using and that's it's only after picking up the first one that the power to choose whether or not to use is lost, this past weekend reminded me why I don't agree that statement is true 100% of the time for 100% of addicts.

That total freedom of choice has not been my experience. Even when I wasn't on a replacement and had a couple of weeks clean, the obsession to use (which comes with a similar type of "anxiety") kept returning. The only choice that I felt that I had not to use was the choice that an animal feels that it has not to gnaw off its limb when caught in a trap. It's been my experience that this kind of anxiety (ie addiction) can grab hold of an addict just as quickly and as unexpectedly as a metal trap, hidden under leaves and twigs, can snap hold of an unsuspecting animal.

I suspect that you completely get what I mean. Thanks for your reply laddertipper!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:06 pm 
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Yeah, Christin, that 'anxiety' is on steroids and I would do anything to stop it. Until recently, I'd never felt that way before in my entire life. Sure, I've had anxiety, even panic attacks but NOT like that!!! Even when I stopped Sub altogether in the past for up to a week, I didn't feel that horrible, I think because I stopped before at high doses and the Sub hadn't even gotten out of my system enough to get me to that crazy point. There's no way in hell I'm going to do that to myself again if I can avoid it. I'll taper to some crazy small amount and then gradually space it apart further and further. No wonder people need Suboxone, huh? I really can't even imagine what Oxy addicts go through when they are w/o their pills and I have so much compassion for that level of suffering, knowing that it's supposedly even worse than Sub w/d. You're right that there's little freedom of choice at that point. I would have swallowed any pill or jammed a needle in myself if it would have stopped it faster. Waiting for those minutes to tick by for the Sub to stop it seemed like too much to ask.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:36 pm 
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I seem to have trouble sticking with things. Why won't I stick to a regular taper schedule? It becomes so tedious that I just want to stop and so I push... a little less here and let's see what happens. I don't even know what I'm on now. I switched to my strips (for one, they're expiring). I just take a little piece... maybe an 1/8. Sometimes, I need to add a bit more in the evening. So, I'm trying not to take any more than I need.

Then, I get an email from my sponsor who asked someone who was on Suboxone for two years and now is off if she could share some experience with me. My sponsor emailed me, that the woman said, "as miserable as the anxiety is, she feels the bulk of withdrawal from suboxone is psychological. She jumped off at 2mg a day."

I got ticked when I read that, I guess because it made me feel like such a loser. I didn't ask for this woman's experience or opinion. I feel as though my sponsor is subtly (though not intentionally) saying, "Stop being a baby about it and get off. Others have done it with no problem."

I want to do the best at everything that I do. I don't ever want to be a whiner, but that's how I feel. I don't feel as though my sponsor will ever believe that what I'm experiencing is real. So, I try to tell myself that it's all in my head. Needing to please people SUCKS! I wish that I could hide in a cave all by myself and that no one, absolutely no one, would have any expectation of me and I wouldn't have to feel obligated to please anyone or to live up to anything.

Just venting guys. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:06 am 
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christin wrote:
I seem to have trouble sticking with things. Why won't I stick to a regular taper schedule? It becomes so tedious that I just want to stop and so I push... a little less here and let's see what happens. I don't even know what I'm on now. I switched to my strips (for one, they're expiring). I just take a little piece... maybe an 1/8. Sometimes, I need to add a bit more in the evening. So, I'm trying not to take any more than I need.

Then, I get an email from my sponsor who asked someone who was on Suboxone for two years and now is off if she could share some experience with me. My sponsor emailed me, that the woman said, "as miserable as the anxiety is, she feels the bulk of withdrawal from suboxone is psychological. She jumped off at 2mg a day."

I got ticked when I read that, I guess because it made me feel like such a loser. I didn't ask for this woman's experience or opinion. I feel as though my sponsor is subtly (though not intentionally) saying, "Stop being a baby about it and get off. Others have done it with no problem."

I want to do the best at everything that I do. I don't ever want to be a whiner, but that's how I feel. I don't feel as though my sponsor will ever believe that what I'm experiencing is real. So, I try to tell myself that it's all in my head. Needing to please people SUCKS! I wish that I could hide in a cave all by myself and that no one, absolutely no one, would have any expectation of me and I wouldn't have to feel obligated to please anyone or to live up to anything.

Just venting guys. Thanks.


The bulk of it is psychological? Really? LOLOLOL! You know what? There's no way to disprove that, because anything in your head can manifest itself in your body. I guess it is all psychological to have aching legs, diarrhea, and sneezing. I guess it's psychological stuff that causes the high blood pressure. Frankly, I think that's ridiculous, but...

I swear, there's no way that when I done with this, I will write about it in hindsight and announce that is wasn't so tough and it was mainly just in my head. It's so easy once you are through something to say stuff like that. I'd love to be able to speak to the woman that wrote that WHILE she was actually in the first days after jumping off Sub and see how psychological she thought it was.

As far as your sponsor goes, well, this is your experience. Has your sponsor actually been through this? You have to remember that just because someone is a sponsor does not mean they are always right. Nobody is always right. It's very dangerous to start feeling that you aren't doing a good enough job. This is supposed to be something you are doing for yourself, not for your sponsor. If it's not for you and becomes something you have to do to live up to someone's expectations, you are going to resent it and lose your discipline. The only reason I've stuck to my taper is that it's all for me and nobody else. It should not matter to your sponsor how quickly you get off Suboxone anyway. What should matter is that you're living the rest of your life in a healthy way.....

Just my two cents. I'm sure your sponsor's a lovely person!! :D

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:00 pm 
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Laddertipper,

Thanks for the post. You are so kind to take the time.

I'm tapering for me, at least that is how I feel most of the time. My sponsor's comment caught me off guard. It was out of the blue. I hadn't asked her to seek the opinion of anyone. She readily admits that she has no experience with Suboxone, or any opiate replacement for that matter. She was strictly cold turkey and it was c/t as difficult as cold turkey can be done. She admits that she was in a "martyr" stage at that point and wouldn't expect anyone to follow what she did. I commend her for what she did. I tried c/t with a nano-fraction of her physical dependence and I couldn't do it.

I know that she was trying to seek some experience for me -- to better understand or to offer me guidance. I've been open about my tapering and have shared my frustrations with her. Receiving an unsolicited, "the withdrawal is mostly psychological" in light of what I have been sharing (very humbly and honestly) felt like a slap in the face when I read it. You're correct, my sponsor is a wonderful woman, but her comment has made me feel embarrassed, even ashamed, of what I have shared as my struggles at tapering.

In the same email, she replied to my frustration at my father whipping out his oxys and taking them for a headache. He never would have considered putting a can of beer on the table when his alcoholic mother was visiting. I don't understand. Sometimes, I wonder if he wants me addicted again because he got so much of my time and attention when I was getting pills from him. Tonight, I spent 2 hours staring at a bottle of oxys as my husband and I were at my dad's place to keep my dad company and to bring him dinner.

Of course, every time that I visit or do something for my dad, I could request that he put his drugs away and when he doesn't (as he hasn't), I can request again. I know that my pride is involved. I don't want to be seen as being so weak or so "unrecovered" that I'm put on edge so easily. Then again, I find myself praying (as I did tonight) to want not to want them. I fight the thoughts that try to convince me why using one more time might even be beneficial... maybe I actually can stay in control this time, and similar crazy thinking.

I started this last night and my husband started giving me a hard time about being on the computer. So, I got pissed and went to bed... dreamed all night about getting my dad's pills. I took them in the dream but woke before I used. When I woke, I had a baseball crowd in my head. Does anyone else hear chatter like that when you're going crazy trying not to use? I swear that it's an entire crowd and I can even detect a deeper voice as though an announcer is speaking at the same time. Of course, I can't make out any words and there really isn't anything making the noise at 2am. But, it's in my head. That's what I mean when I tell people that my head gets loud.

Well, I didn't use yesterday and I didn't use today. Man... I feel like I'm going to fall flat on my face when this taper is over.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:21 pm 
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i just don't understand". my dose was up from 16 to 20 5 days ago and the pain/ anxiety or w/d or both is still gone!! :o but i'm not sleeping to well. the lexapro i started 4 days ago is possibly making my heart beat faster. and i.m a bit cranky . bla,bla,bla......... but at least like what cristin and latter said". that dam anxiety w/d is down! oh gosh"i hope i'm right. if i would just forget about the strips for a wile then my day go's like as if i were on nothing. but ya like latter said". i do get that hangover feeling in the morning for a hour or 2. but it beets the real one" cuzz latter i can get on with my full day.


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