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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:19 am 
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Hi All & Thank you for your help. I apologize for my lengthiness, but I want to paint a good picture. The sub site I've been on does nothing but forcast doom about sub withdrawal. Scared the heck out of me- I'm terrified- pease give me some encouragement here!

After 2 emergency spinal surgeries, 3 months inpatient (Paralyzed-transverse Myelitis-I do walk again). Long story short, I did a 7 day detox from Oxy (6/9-6/10). I really want to be clean, no alcohol, no drugs.

I am about to go into full -blown SUB withdawals. My SUB history has been a single #30 bottle, over 2mos. and I'm down to 1 taking 1 mg or less- just what it takes. I've been on it now for 30 days or less (max 2 mg) I have no more sub doctor, and I don't want take sub again.

**** I have ONE pill left****

I've been 8 yrs with my doc and we have an agreement abour PRNs, the maximum meds he feels safe with me taking- I don't
normally use a lot of drugs meds. ***I See him on Tuesday-so PLEASE tell me what meds to ask for. And what to expect to happen.

FYI, I care for my Mother and inpatient is NOT an option.

In anticipation- here's the worst case detox meds per day- Can they get me by? I'm quite rational and sleep 8-9 hours.

Valium 10mg every 2-3 hourse not to exceed four (I have a lot of it)- Alternatively Xanax 2mg 3x daily
Seroquel 50 Mg 3 x daily
Zyprexa 5 mg 3 x daily (can this be increased?) *** This is probably the most powerful Atypical)
Seroquel 600 mg at Bedtime (my saving grace)
Clonidine- either patch or pill .1 g.
Zanaflex muscle relaxer (Can you reccomend the best drug for RLS?)
Zofran for my stomach.

And then anything (immodium, tyelonol, whatever).

I cannot see myself going to the hospital or ER, what do they have that I don't ?
Does my short-Term use and low dosage go to help me?

What else should I ask my psych for ?? I want to be very sedated. Walking around like a PICU patient, but at home
and carefully taking my meds. When I really get a lot of anxiety, seroquel is the best

Thank you.

Please tell me that you've done this before and it is do-able. Why does the sub site say the withdrawals are far milder
when everyhing they say about it and web site say it's as bad as methadone.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:37 am 
I honestly believe you will be fine and won't need most of those meds. If you really don't feel well I'd recommend the Clonidine. If you have sleeplessness or RLS the Valium IN MODERATION will help both. But being on a low dose for a short period of time my guess is you will not suffer. Just be prepared for some low energy and get outside in the sun and/or exercize as much as you can bring yourself to.
Good Luck,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:18 pm 
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I just jumped after a year of being on sub 6 days ago. It was not that bad at all especially if youve experienced oxy WD. All used during the first 3 days was 1 mg of Klonopin half early half later then when that wasnt enough i smoked a little marijuana. I dont smoke at all but my friend had told me it helped him tremendously thru his WD. All in all i did have trouble sleeping (kinda do anyways even on sub) but i laid around the first few days and just sweated it out. Not so bad. and the fact that youve only been on for a month will shorten the length of WD too. Im on day 6 and feel fine. maybe like im hungover slightly but nothing that would stop me from going out and doing what i gotta do. Id say your in a pretty good position to get off. id recommend the clonidine, everyone here says it helped the most and for me anything for anxiety was a must. xanax probably would have been best for me but just work with what you got and youll make it thru.


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 Post subject: Thank You
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Hi all, and a huge thanks:

I QUIT my other sub site, and want to be an active participant here. I've been really enjoying the posts, and done a lot of reading from Dr. J- I'd love to meet him!
His story is more than impressive. I commend him.

Today I tried a pre-jump test- I take my sub around 5AM and yesterday morning dose was teency.
So I held off, and waited , but as time passed I began to feel worse and worse- It really
is that flu-like crappy state where all I wanted to do was lie in bed with my eyes closed. I stayed there for
about 2 hours like a zombie before realizing that I have things to do- I finally caved in to a chip, and
I was intantly better. No doubt whatsoever that it was wd's. It was a planned event. I can handle that.

Fact is that's what I did during my 9 day-C/T OXYMORPHONE (120mg) detox. Nothing.- TV if I felt up to it.
Basically I layed in bed for 9 days, feeling beat /sick /no apetite- And I slept well every night on Seroquel.
So I got a pretty good taste to recall of how detox starts so I'm not SO afraid.

I apreciate being told that I can do this. I'm lonely because I spend most time taking care of
my Mom .It'd be nice to be around other people...I can do that at an AA meeting though.
After I'm over the bed-stick.

question : What kind of Immodium (is it AD?) do I need- liquid, pills ?
Anything else from the store? (Gonna get gatorade and Boost)

Thanks again for everything, I'm looking at Tuesday as D-Day (1 have one pill)

-That's the good thing about time- it goes on~


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:25 pm 
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They gave me immodium ad when I went to the ER with sub withdrawal a while back. It worked pretty good. Also, after the initial withdrawal phase (I used clonidine also which was amazing) I took neurontin for anxiety which helped a lot and it isn't addictive. You haven't been on the sub long so that ought to help. Everyone has a different experience. I jumped off of 12mg rather spontaneously with no taper and life was rough, but the WD wasn't NEARLY as bad as oxy. That isn't to say it wasn't bad, it was, but I could still go to work. I wasn't as energetic and didn't enjoy things as much, but that really had a lot more to do with PAWS than it did the physical withdrawal. I didn't think the physical WD was all that bad really.

So yes, you CAN get through the physical WD part of it most certainly. Then you just have to see what happens and see if you have PAWS or not.

I wish you the best. Keep us posted.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:57 pm 
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It sounds like you're all set and ready...I wish you the very best. As everyone has said, clonidine is supposed to help. Also, I've read that exercise helps withdrawals symptoms significantly, too. Keep that in mind.

Hang in there - you CAN do this! Keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Try not to give in to the desire to just stay in bed all day. If you can, force yourself to go out and take a walk, and try to have some things to do that aren't too taxing but can still divert your attention from how you're feeling. When I quit Sub, it seemed like the hardest days were the ones where I didn't have work or some other thing scheduled - I would sit around thinking about how I was feeling and that was just unhelpful. Making myself get some fresh air and exercise ALWAYS helped me feel better and really cut down on a lot of the w/d symptoms. Plus, it's good for you!

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 Post subject: Thank you
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:56 am 
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Thanks again
Hope you don't mind me checking in- I took my crumb this AM and will have eactly enough to make it
to my Dr. Appt tomrrow- though he doesn't do sub.

I feel like a soldier headed for battle. Some people have said they experienced only mild withdrawals,
and other people said they went to the ER (Nothing they can do for me there). But somebody must
have had serious problems to have to go to the ER. Put that outof my mind.

I'm still suffering from spinal pain, I don't know if Ultram is a good choice, or if it's impossible to
get off of also. I used it to help me with withdrawal for a few days once and it worked for sure.

The sanity I'm getting comes from you guys, and I'm very grateful for it. Those of you that have
travelled the path I'm taking. I think if I expect to be sick, then i will be- hoping it's all about attitude.

I'm keeping busy around the house, and going to a 12 step meeting today....
Once it hits, I'll TRY to log - on...I know people are sometime too sick for the first few days...
If I could do the shower & shaving thing I'd be doing well!!!

Thanks again, I need you people rooting for me...and you are my rent-to-own family right now!
runner


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:43 pm 
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Hello runner,

Just wanted to say good luck and let you know that you will be in my prayers! You are right think positively!


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 Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:23 pm 
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So tomorrow sometime I will enter my planned jump from SUB.
There is none in my house, and I have no SUB doc.

I've tried to listen carefully to posts, made some mikstakes
by taking a "hint more" than I should while tapering. Fact is
I was using favorable "crumbs".

Went to my psych doc today, he's very cool....I told him I was
forcibly jumping (I had to anyway). - Like in the next day.

At one appointment I asked him how most patients present
with opiate w/d's- and he said "in the fetal position". Great.

The cool part is that I had him commit to me that he'd admit
me inpatient any time and that he'd be very generous with
his pen.

So why should I project. Sure, it;s gonna be rough, but I've
got to be brave and strong. My medicine cabinet is filled,
but I'm not excited- want to make it through the first day.
One day at a time after that.

THX
PS- I'm still confused about this "herbal incense", JWH-11
or whatever it is smoke shops? Is is kratom, or some
plant combination- sure sells a lot.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Here's some info on that from wikipedia:

JWH-018 (1-pentyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole) is an analgesic chemical from the naphthoylindole family, which acts as a full agonist at both the CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors, with some selectivity for CB2.[1][2][3][4] It produces effects in animals very similar to those of THC.

Read more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JWH-018

It's basically synthetic thc, but I would read the section on side effects.

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 Post subject: Hey
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Hey, I just wanted to show my support! I wish you nothing but the best over the next few days/weeks. I can't express how effective the Clonidine was for me when I tried to detox the first time (i'm down to .4 a day now). But it made me really drowsy and I would recommend taking it before bed. I think you'll feel sluggish enough during the day, without the Clonidine making you even weaker. It makes your mouth really freaking dry too...at least for me. Where I worked, I had to talk to people all day, and I could barely talk or swallow, but i was taking .3 mg a day. Just take it as directed by a physician...

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know you have another person rooting for you. I know what it's like to feel all alone during withdrawals...it can be rough. But keep coming back..I just joined up this group, but I have been reading it for a while, and the people are caring and information is good.

Keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:43 pm 
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Just another offer of support here. You CAN do this. Just take things minute by minute if you have to and remember that every minute that goes by gets you closer to the end of the creepy/crawlies

I can't even tell you how many times I've kicked gargantuan full agonist opiate addictions, and yes, I spent plenty of time in the fetal position in those days, but I'm not so sure you're facing anything quite THAT rough, given the information you've provided. Good luck and keep us posted!


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 Post subject: Just An Update
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:51 am 
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I explained to my psych my impending SUB jump (Revised- tomorrow AM is final dose, saving a tiny crumb for like a hospital-type emergency.
That way I won't suffer w/d's the day if I check- in to the hospital/rehab I've been to before..,He gave me lots of Valium, clonidine .1 mg dose. x 4 max daily.

Today I waited again b4 the sub, and the symptoms were creeping in. I felt like I wanted to go to bed sick.

So whether it's gonna be inpatient or outpatient (I hope) is the only question.

Thanks for all the support, Will try to post if not too ill- I've read all the nightmare stories of th ER, unbearable
pain, insomia, flu-like weajness with chills, vomitting, duahrea etc....So naturally, I'm scared. ..


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:10 pm 
Runner, you mentionned "the nightmare stories of th ER, unbearable pain, insomia, flu-like weakness with chills, vomitting, duahrea etc...." What you just described was oxy, heroin, fentanyl, morphine or other agonist withdrawal.
I just got off Sub myself less than 2 weeks ago and, trust me, it's not even in the same league. Honestly, I think the FEAR of withdrawal is as bad as the withdrawal itself. I used Ativan because I had it on hand, but I think I was treating my own anxiety more so than actual symptoms. Also, like others said, keep busy - don't plan on being bedridden. I was very tired and did take a few naps, but I took care of my kids, kept all my appointments, went shopping - just pushed through it. Don't get all worked up - like Dr. J said, people who had bad experiences tend to be the ones who post on message boards. People who were perfectly fine don't often sit down and write about it. You're going to be OK. Keep us posted.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:45 pm 
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Hello Runner,

Just wanted to wish you the best of luck and let you no I will be praying for you! Think positive! I don't know from experince but have heard exercise is the key, they say even if you don't feel like it try to get out and do something anyway {I know easier said than done lol}. I think you will do great!! keep us posted :)


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 Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:55 am 
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Thanks, y'all are so correct about excercise. I can't seem to get myself to
go for my morning walk anymore. As dosage had declined, I've been less
motivated by far and often want to retreat to my bed.

Well, last dose tomorrow. Will see about some activity, even if it's
houework- I can do something positive to help this process- I have
to find the courage to endure what I'm about to go through.

Man, I get a lump in my throat just typing it. No panic attacks
that can't be fixed with some of my meds...

Scared.


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 Post subject: Update, oh-crap
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:26 pm 
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So I knew I was down to the nitty with the little tiny pieces, mostly
because I had little energy or motivation to do anything. partial
withdrawal, so to speak.

This AM I took a nap, and when I awoke my sub had for sure
"worn off". I was violiently ill with incredible opiate cravings.

I licked out the dust from my bottle and it fixed it up. But
tomorrow AM is my last pinhead. I know the half-life is
significant. So I'm terrified. I would not IMAGINE sitting
there like that. I did just taken clodinine and immodium
just now. In that condition, I'll be in bed forever.

This seems like it is gonna awful bad, and I think sparing
the liquid taper that I did, relatively short term of use.

Seriously I felt as bad as on w/ds from OXY.

I have no sub doc, or any access to opiotes of any
kind. If methadone is worse that sub, I can't even
imagine.

Anyone relate ?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:44 pm 
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runner, I'm sorry things are rough for you right now. When you say you were violently ill, do you mean you were vomiting? What other symptoms are you having? I'll try to help you if I can, but it's hard to give you advice without knowing what's going on.

For now, try not to freak out. Give yourself a pep-talk. A positive attitude will really help you get through the withdrawal process. I was scared too when I took the jump - but I also knew that while withdrawal sucks, it doesn't last forever and it certainly isn't the worst thing that a person might have to live through. Seriously, I would think about little kids with cancer, and how they have to go through awful, horrible side effects from their treatments in order to get well and I would tell myself if they could survive weeks and months of that, I could deal with a week or two of feeling like shit.

Try to think about a hard time in your life when you found some inner resources that helped you pull through. We are stronger than we think we are, but we forget sometimes. Do you have anyone who you can lean on for support right now? Someone who knows what you're going through and who can hang out with you and keep you company, help keep you distracted? That might help.

You can do this. I know it is hard and it is frightening not knowing how you will feel or how long it will last. All you can do is take it moment by moment and try to make yourself as comfortable as possible. If you need help with how to treat specific symptoms, let me know, and I'm sure others here will have good ideas for you too.

Stay strong and keep posting here. I'm pulling for you.

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 Post subject: Jump day #1
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:39 pm 
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Ok, so I jumped. The last piece at 1:00 am was so small that I can't imagine it would do anything and it hasn't.

I jumped on top of everything, took a valium, 2 immodium, and have had .2 mg clonidine.

I feel completely stuck in bed, can't even open my eyes, so I just lie there in purgatorty.

Force myself short (very short) walk around the house, but I think it's here to stay a while,

and that much worse is coming.

time to go lick, and water out my sub bottle!!!


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