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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:58 pm 
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Runner - you really need to get yourself in a better frame of mind. You are going into this fully expecting it to be a miserable experience and with that mindset it's going to be just that. You are setting yourself up for it. With all of the comfort meds that you have and the fact that you are jumping off a relatively low dose of Sub, this really should not be as bad as you are thinking it's going to be. Can I speak from first-hand experience? No, honestly, I cannot. But I have read the reports of many people who have been in the position that you are currently in and many report that it was not nearly as bad as they thought it would be. Without a doubt the great majority say that stopping Sub is nothing at all like stopping a full-on opiate. Is it going to be a rough few days and weeks? Yeah, it likely is. But should you be bound to your bed in the largest misery of your life? Not if what everyone else reports is accurate.

Again, the mind can be a very powerful thing. If you have it in your head that this is going to royally suck and be just beyond the worst - it will be. If you can get it into your head that others have made it through this and you will too and just push yourself to do some exercise, keep busy, keep your mind distracted, eat well, drink a lot of fluids, and use the comfort medications as directed, I really do think you'll find that it was not as bad as you had feared.

By all means, use all of us here on the forum to help you in any way that we can. Keep posting and let us know how you are doing. Hang in there - and GET POSITIVE!!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:46 pm 
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Runner,

From speaking with my suboxone doctor extensively over the year and half I was involved in a suboxone treatment program I have come to understand that the severity of suboxone withdrawal is mainly dependent upon: the length of time on suboxone maintenance, dosage level, and final dosage level when stopping. In my opinion, you are in a good position to come off suboxone because unlike many others you have used suboxone maintenance for a short duration, started with a relatively low dosage level, and are also jumping off at a relatively low dosage level. Although, some people prefer to gradually taper down to lower than 1mg or attempt to skip dosage days, coming off at 1mg is very feasible. In fact, I myself, after 1.5 yrs of being on suboxone maintenance SUCCESSFULLY jumped off at 1mg and have been off for over a month! The only difference was I was able to start skipping dosage days which helps acclimate your body to have slightly less suboxone in your system. Furthermore, it sounds like you have a plethora of detox assisting medications that can really help minimize your discomfort during this process.
Secondly, I totally agree with what donh has said. When coming off suboxone, a positive mentality is your best assest. Think of it like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you keep expecting this experience to be hell and you get yourself so worked up in the anxiety of anticipation than absolutely it is going to feel like hell. You have to remain positive and confident that no matter what you will get through this and that you will enjoy a dependence free lifestyle after this all. Obviously there is gonna be some discomfort associated with ceasing the usage of any medication your body has become accustomed to having, but you will be amazed at how minimal it is. If you have had the misfortune of experiencing full blown oxymorphone or oxycontin withdrawals then this is NOTHING in comparison.
Remember that your short time on suboxone is really quite a benefit in this situation. Forget all of these ridiculous withdrawal horror stories you have read, those stories will do nothing but add to your anxiety. Focus on reading the stories of people who have successfully come off suboxone with minimal discomfort and are now leading dependence free lifestyles. If you are good with this site I would suggest reading some of my earlier posts, talking about my experiences this past month and explaining how my life has become progressively better with every day off suboxone. Don't overwhelm yourself wondering how it will be in the next few days without suboxone, focus on today. Eat light and healthy meals, keep gatorade or pedialyte available for hydration after stomach irregularity, get out of the house whenever possible for a brief walk or fresh air, and if and when you feel up to it exercise to help lift your mood and give you a better nights sleep.
Best of luck. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments, i'd love to be a source of inspiration, support, and clarification to someone in need.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:45 pm 
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If I took a valium and .2mgs of clonidine I wouldn't be able to get out of bed either. Just .1mg of clonidine knocked me on my ass during my withdrawal, so I only took it at night after that.

If you are experiencing body aches from withdrawal (this was an annoying symptom for me) I highly recommend hot hot baths with LOTS of epsom salts or a mix of epsom and sea salt. I would just stay in there as long as I could adding more hot water as needed. Take a good book or a trashy magazine with you, and a big glass of water. This will help you feel better and help you relax.

If you're feeling anxious or irritable, try watching a funny movie or some stand-up comedy. Laughing gets your endorphins flowing and it's good for you. It helps get your mind off fixating on every little thing you might be feeling.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:57 pm 
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I have to agree with what the others here are saying. Try to get out of the negative frame of mind, keep yourself busy, and stay active. Try not to pay such close attention to every little pang your body feels, that will just keep you focused on the bad instead of the good. Take lots of walks, play games with friends, and definitely do the hot bath thing. You're fortunate to have the comfort meds that you do. I'd suggest only taking them when you need them, but that's just my opinion.

Remember, YOU CAN DO THIS. We're here for you, so post as often as you need. That's what this forum is for. Hang tough!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:10 pm 
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Hi All,

Thanks so much for the support with my sub cessation, though it was not my choice to stop.

It's been eight days, and I'm still here. The withdrawal symptoms were/are very much on the mild side, and I've not had (luckily, I think) any desire to take my DOC, which was Rx painkillers.

I could kick myself so hard for this, but at 5 days in I decided to try some Kratom (leaf), without doing much research on the dangers. Mostly I figured it might ease my withdrawal, help me sleep, reduce cravings, etc...

It did all of these things, but I now know that Kratom is a devasting drug, particularly fiancially. And that it's anything but easy to stop.

I've read so many stories of how easy it is to "cave-in" to Kratom, especially since it's legal and shipped overnight.
Despite having used it for only several days, I found myself unable to start my day this weekend without it no matter how hard I tried.

Yesterday I made an ASAP appt with my pcp. I'm not sure he'll even know what Kratom is. One possibility I'd considered is Naltrexone/Revia, but I desperately need to know if that drug will successfully block the effects of Kratom, since I understand that Kratom acts on receptors within the body beyond the mu opioid.

What can my pcp do for me? (please say Revia!), and what can I do for myself ? I've been excercising, therapy, 12 step meetings...
anything and everything to give myself a fighting chance.

I'm Disappointed, but still determined. When I try to "fight" opiates, I don't win- I'm a drug addict.

I'm already on antabuse, which I asked for when I made my Sub Jump and that's been great b/c of my history. But I need to ARREST this ADDICTION to Kratom immediately. I've also been told that a sub doctor may (likely) be unwilling to Rx Suboxone for this, citing overkill.

Will the naltrexone help me block Kratom?? and (at least temporarily) provide the type of insurance that antabuse has given me?

My spinal pain is fairly bad, but nothing compared to the pharmaceutical tratements I was offered.

I now realize that sub was doing things for me that I couldn't do myself- not take opiates....

The good news is that I'm at just about 80 days off of the oxy, and that makes me feel good.

I'll also likely be switching my AD to Wellbutrin, which may help my nicotine situation if nothing else....but I really need to know if the Revia/Naltrexone will do the job on blocking Kratom. I spent three months in the hospital with two major spinal surgeries and nearly died.....and now I feel like I'm in the same position.

Thanks (again!)
Runner


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:49 am 
Runner, you said......


I now realize that sub was doing things for me that I couldn't do myself- not take opiates....



Why do you NEED to stop suboxone right now? You seem so worried about w/d symptoms from opiates that you are willing to take ANYTHING, including herbal OPIATES to stop? Wouldn't life be so much better if you just stayed on the subs for a year or so?

Why get off subs but be willing to load your body with every other drug known to man? I honestly don't understand what you are doing? It just makes no sense to me. I am not trying to be mean. I applaud anyone who wants to fight this shitty disease. It just seems like you don't really care about being sober.....just sober off subs.

Maybe I missed an earlier post?

Kire


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:03 am 
Well, runner, it appears I did miss something! I just read some other things you have posted and now feel like I have a better picture......

I guess you are stoping sub because of financial reasons? And you have a chronic medical condition? Well shit, that makes a big difference in where you are coming from.....

So dude, sorry if I sounded bitchy.....I was confused.....

I do think it would be awesome though if you could find a way to stay on subs....especially if they kept you somewhat stable. I personally don't care that my body is dependent on sub right now. My mind is free from addiction. I can deal with my body later.....when I have the tools to live like a normal person instead of a pill popper/IM dilaudid user. So good luck runner. I really hope things work out for you!

Take care of yourself, Kire


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:12 am 
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But then you question the possibility of getting a sub prescription for this herbal remedy which makes me wonder if you have looked into all of the options for getting sub. There are ways of getting it that aren't going to break the bank. Have you looked into every option?

Cherie

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 Post subject: Follow-up
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Thanks for your replies.

The PCP never heard of Kratom, and I did, as it turns out already have an Rx for Naltrexone. From my reading, I think it will work,
so long as Kratoms' mechanism is as an opiate agonist.

I was essentially "fired" by my pain (sub) doctor. My pattern of addiction was pretty clear as I "ran out" of medication early several times, and constanly asked for dose-increases,... also told him I had an alcohol history, etc. He got me off the Opana with subs, and when I couldn't afford the next RX he put me on OXY IR- being merciful because of the severity of my pain. One week later he told me that my pupils were pinned, and refused to re-induce or Rx me anything, telling me that I must go straight to inpatient detox, which I could not do because of my care-taking obligations. We had some very loud, heated words.

I'm going to call in aplogetic fashion, talk to the nurse and see if he will treat me at all. I consider myself to be "highly motivated", and will go to the next step if that's what I need to do. Sub doctors don't come easy. If anything good, no need for any benzo in quite a while. On the other side, I'm in a heck of a lot of pain.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:50 pm 
It sounds irresponsible of your sub doc to detox you off of Opana with sub and then write you a script for Oxy, especially knowing you have a substance abuse history. Are there any other Sub docs in your area? It does sound like getting back sub would be a good option for you if it is in any way possible. It sounds like you hadn't fully stabilized (taking xtra sub & running out early) and then you got right into the Kratom. I used that stuff myself in the past when I was trying to get off of painkillers, before I got on Sub. It got me high as a kite. I hope you are able to get the support you need and find a decent doctor. No matter what you decide, we will be here to support you.
Lilly


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 Post subject: Update
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Well,
Let's see. I'm diasbled on SS and Rx costs are very high due to the annual $4500
you must pay out-of=pocket.

Kratom has the death-drip on me-it's been a week, it's been every day.
I had to stop before taking the revia, which threw me into having almost
unbelieivebale oxy-like cravings. I even tried kratom-zero effect. So
yesterday I was/AM in full-blown w/d- a psycholigical catastrophe.

I've got to make a run at breaking through the Kratom. People kick H
which is also readily available. Kratom will break my bank account if
I cannot execte a plan.

Haven't made the painodc appt yet, but finding sub one way or another is
quite possibly gonna be what it takes- I don't have the willpower to be
sick, have the answer right in front of me,...and not use it!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:08 pm 
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Runner, I wish you the best in this whole situation. A word of warning though. Kratom is an opiate. And it can have very similar effects on the brain as other RX opiates. I used Kratom once to ease my withdrawals from Methadone, and then the next thing I knew I was using Kratom to get high. Once my tolerance dropped low enough, after a few weeks, the Kratom was actually giving me a buzz. I did extensive research on the plant, and it seems that many people develop problems with Kratom unsuspectingly. Please use caution with this substance.

Please hang in there, and take care of yourself.

-Bubs

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 Post subject: Caution is right
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Kratom is absolutely an opiate without question...
I mad a painsub doc appt on 9/23, dunno if he'll treat me or not...I can plead,
Two mornings ago I decided to end my caving to obession by taking 50
mg of Naltrexone. I experienced medium acute withdrawls, but more importantly
is does completely block the effects of kratom...not even worth taking it.

I've been putting myself through hell by not being able to cave-in, w/d's
are intensely psycholical, I was kicking, the whole 9. Needed lotsa meds.

I'm temped to see if I can stretch another period without
k, and slip myself another naltrexone (hey I'm on abtuse for alcohol & very proud)

One is supposed to wait something like 4-7 days post opioiod before naltrexone,
but of course I had to try the waters- and I don't think I can wait that long.

BTW I also attended and AA meeting today. No NA close.

It ain't gonna be fun, but if I can wait another day I can slip myself that stuff
and ruin another 100 hours of opiate euphoria- it's psycholigally horrible though.
physically I don't how if it's helping or hurting, only roadblock I know.

Some say I should taper like I did with sub, never been too good at that. Still I'm
a week or so of K with no extract, that many help. I'll try anything beofre the
"shaky subdoc appt." 9/23

Thanks for listening, I need it and I'm in deep enough still with zero credit balaces.
I need to man up and do this folks, no room for play....

I'll take alll the help I can get... If I can get off before the 23rd it will save me financial
ruin from buying expensive sub, I don't trust myself yet on subutex.

My proposed mention is unconventional, but could work in a more acute case than normal??

Oh Well, 11 days post-sub jump, 80 days off the oxy...slow progress, big roabloack.


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