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 Post subject: Jumping off at 0.4???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:47 pm 
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I am on my last 3 days of my suboxone detox. I came down from 2mg to -

5 Days - 1.2mg
5 Days - 0.8
5 Days - 0.4mg

I have been on suboxone for about 4 yrs. I attempted 3 yrs ago to jump off at 2mg and it was hell. I'm really hoping this time it's going to be easier coming off at a lower dose? I have been offered sleeping tablets which I have sat waiting for me to pick up. I already have restless legs which are driving me insane.

Would love to hear your experiences at jumping off around the same dose? Or any advice. Thanks. x


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:26 pm 
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I would recommend just jumping all together. You're going to prolong the inevitable. You're already withdrawaling, you tapered too quickly.

I jumped from where you define Hell. Rightly so, I've got no idea if the rapid detox works, in theory it just might. I would however if you're trying to avoid discomfort taper slowly over time. You made too quickly of a jump and your body is panicked about stopping. You basically aren't giving it enough time to adjust to each dose. It's already in panic mode.

You absolutely have to be ready to commit to jumping when you decide too. You're basically coming off a high jump with a rapid taper. I'm sure it'll make it not quite as severe, its just how less severe that's hard to judge.

In my experience its more than possible. Tapering is the way to go. If you feel like its too much at the time of jumping, taper for a longer period of time. The saying you didn't get here instantly applies to both starting suboxone and ending suboxone.

Whatever you decide keep us updated! Clonidine is one Hell of a helper. Calms your central nervous system and can really help with insomnia. Advil, Unisom for sleep, exercise even when you don't want too. Staying positive has helped me tremendously throughout my own struggles.

Keep fighting buddy. The people that get where they want to be, get there by giving it everything they have.

-WTBF


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:17 am 
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Thank you so much WTBF.

I was given this detox by the drug service. I have been ready to get off for ages and just want my body back and my life. This holds me back mentally and physically. I think you're right...I'm just delaying it so as from now I'm not going to take anymore. Last night was bloody awful...restless legs/hot/cold/goose pimples. I am an emotional wreck this morning. I'm sat here crying like an idiot. Thank god my daughter is at school today. It's not going to be easy having to deal with a hyper 4 yr old and do this. I want my body back. To wake up without all this bullshit of needing something. I hate it. I am at a place in my life where I want to be able to leave my past behind me and have a decent life. Just the simple things. A job..a car..holiday etc. To be able to feel like a decent human being to my kids because i've managed to kick some of my demons.

I'm prob not making a whole lot of sense atm. I know i'm in for a hell of a ride but need to keep all those things I've wrote in my head. I CAN and WILL do this. No going back this time...enough is quite enough!!!!!!!!

I will post here every day. I love the support you all give each other here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:31 am 
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Also it is normal that the sudden change in my body can bring back health issues? I think I have a UTI. My eczema in my scalp is back. I just feel a mess. I'm at the doctors this Friday so hoping to get it sorted. I'm ringing up my drug misuse service this am to ask about the Clonidine. Will update.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:35 am 
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Hi,

I did 5 years on subs.
Here's the tall and skinny.

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7766

If you can cope with 1 or two months of crappness, then jump,.

If you feel you can't, then keep tapering, slow it right down, and spend another 6 months tapering to nothing.
With tapering, if you are feeling crap, that means, you are rushing it, and just wait to you recoup, between each jump.

yes, I appreciate you are having a hard time now, but that is nothing, to what is going to happen, when you go Cold turkey.

Your body is still at 1-1.5mg, based on your tapering thus far.

This can be done, with little issues, but you will have to learn the ancient art of patience and tapering really, really low.
Think .04 or lower.

HS


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:08 am 
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Thank you, I will go and read it. I know it's going to get a lot worse. I still remember my last attempt 3 yrs later. I am in a much better place this time and going to give this my best shot. I was giving this detox by a drug service. This was their reduction for me. I know I can slow it down if I want to but I just need to get on with it. Am I best just stopping right now if I only have another days worth of suboxone left? Many thanks for your help.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:27 am 
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Hopespring - Your thread gave me goose pimples (in a good way this time lol) and will keep reading it for inspiration! How you feeling now?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:52 am 
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I am waiting for a call back from my drug key worker. I just started blubbering on the phone...what's wrong with me...I can't stop crying?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:02 am 
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They've messed up my zopiclone but hoping to sort it out so I can get them 6pm tonight from the chemist. I have to go to my gp for the other things mentioned and no idea if they'll give me it or try and send me back to my drug misuse service.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:32 am 
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Are you off the Sub now? If it is in any way possible, I would recommend you stay on until you get the other issues, like the UTI, are cleared up. No sense in starting out sick! I jumped at 0.5mg and my physical WD was very mild. Mentally, I had depression (yes, crying at the drop of a hat), extremely low energy, and a dragging, heavy feeling. That lasted about 3-3 1/2 weeks. After that it was really all uphill for me. Not saying I was 100%, but I was having more good days than bad - was functioning, taking care of kids, working, etc. As far as sleep... I was sleeping 6 hours a night (sometimes 3 +3 with a gap in between) by the end of the first week.
So in my humble opinion it wasn't that bad. I know a lot of people read the worst horror stories on the web and literally make themselves sick thinking about how bad it's going to be. It's definitely doable. The worst thing is when you're in it feeling like it will never end. But in the course of a lifetime 3-4 weeks is nothing. You have to give yourself a lot of positive self talk - I will get through this! This will be over soon! I'm going to be ok!

Oh and most important, have a plan for staying clean! A lot of people say they have no cravings, but then they get off the Sub and the cravings creep up. So be vigilant.
Good luck.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Lillyval wrote:
Are you off the Sub now? If it is in any way possible, I would recommend you stay on until you get the other issues, like the UTI, are cleared up. No sense in starting out sick! I jumped at 0.5mg and my physical WD was very mild. Mentally, I had depression (yes, crying at the drop of a hat), extremely low energy, and a dragging, heavy feeling. That lasted about 3-3 1/2 weeks. After that it was really all uphill for me. Not saying I was 100%, but I was having more good days than bad - was functioning, taking care of kids, working, etc. As far as sleep... I was sleeping 6 hours a night (sometimes 3 +3 with a gap in between) by the end of the first week.
So in my humble opinion it wasn't that bad. I know a lot of people read the worst horror stories on the web and literally make themselves sick thinking about how bad it's going to be. It's definitely doable. The worst thing is when you're in it feeling like it will never end. But in the course of a lifetime 3-4 weeks is nothing. You have to give yourself a lot of positive self talk - I will get through this! This will be over soon! I'm going to be ok!

Oh and most important, have a plan for staying clean! A lot of people say they have no cravings, but then they get off the Sub and the cravings creep up. So be vigilant.
Good luck.
Lilly


Hi Lilly, thank you for this reply. x

I would have to see the doctor again at the clinic which could take days so I would have already started. I start tomorrow (today now)|I really don't want to have to delay it any longer. I have already delayed it and I feel I just need to get on with it. I have a fab support network and everyone is being very encouraging. I am at the GP on Fri for my UTI but found some tablets for my last one a few weeks ago which I stupidly did not finish. I'm terrible for that lol.

I know what you mean about the cravings..I got some yesterday and have spoken to my mum who is going to come with me to the GP so i'm not going into town by myself (just in case). I live in a village which I moved to a few mths back and feel safe here. I would hate to slip up on drugs after being clean so long but know I'm going to be vulnerable.

I am going to write a list and stick it on my fridge of all the reasons i'm doing this.

To have my body back.
To finally feel like I can close that chapter in my life where i need a substance to keep me from withdrawing. I have an amazing partner who I want to spend my life with. He has really helped me to realise that I can have a better way of life then the one I have led with drug misuse.
To feel like a better mother. I just feel i'll never feel free unless I finally stop using any kind of drug which relates to my past drug addiction.


I have so many dreams for the future, ones that I never believed I deserved, or would ever get because of my past. I really struggled to find myself when I got clean. I felt like a different person. person who was tired of my past life style. I want so much more. I'm still very much trying to feel at ease with myself. It's like I feel that I suddenly woke up and was a different person. I no longer want to live the life of an addict. I'm tired of it, it's like a light was switched on.

Sorry if this all does not make much sense. I find it hard to really get across what I mean.

I'm so ready to get off this. I am a big worrier by nature and was always going to dread this final bit (like most) but i'll keep my dreams in my head and remember why i'm doing this. I want to be FREE.


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 Post subject: Day 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:49 pm 
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I may as well start now.

Yesteday I took my last dose of 0.4 and felt just awful all day. I was giving this detox plan from the drug misuse service which I have been with since I started suboxone. Started at 16mg and have tapered down slowly to this point I am at now. I honestly did not even see the point in taking my 0.4mg as as soon as I left 0.8 I started to feel like I was in withdrawal. I do think it's not the best way to cut down every 5 days but followed the advice of the drug service as was told this is how many people have done it. Having just done it I am really questioning why they think it works when clearly it has not gone as they told me it would. None the less I am here no and ready to get this started and over with. Failing is not an option for me. I am so ready to get this over with and very thankful I found this forum as you're all amazing. I have been greatly inspired by many threads which I have read over the last few days. I CAN do this and I WILL!! I am going to get back to running again. Any advice when I should start? Do I get the worst of it out the way first?

Yesterday on my last dose my symptoms were -

The runs - I lost count of the amount of time I was on the toilet
Restless legs - Had this for a good few days so far- driving my crazy!
Lethargic - Just walking to the school was a real mission yesterday
Hot flushes
Very emotional - Lost count of the amount of times I just burst into tears.

So not a good start and I know there's prob much worse to come. As already posted by hope spring. I just refuse to taper anymore. I am so fed up of all this now and it's totally time to just do it. It's really been getting me down and depressed knowing I was still taking suboxone.

I like everyone else hope maybe this will help others and I know it's going to really help me to write it all down and look back on.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:07 am 
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I am honestly in awe of the people on this forum. I just feel so compelled to write this as I get goose pimples reading the threads in this section. I feel it is such a blessing to have found this place, and I can more then see how it helps so many people in this differ cult chapter in their lives. Amazing place :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:00 am 
Dee your doing a amazing job. And you know what. Want to be free is right. I think (not a fact) that since your allready withdrawing at that dose you are better off just continuing on! If you need to use some Imodium to help with the runs. It works great. Sometimes i would take up to 12 to 20mgs of lopermide to help. Yes it seems like a lot. But subs are just as bad at constipating you. So i swear by it. It helps! But only use it when you feel you need to! Absolutely get clondine since it helps keep your body from going hot/cold and will help with sleep if need be. If possible get a small amount of benzos to help with the anxiety which i know is a bad symptom for me. Klonopin is what i recommend since it lasts a long time. But ativan, xanax, or even valium are all good choices. But use them only for a few days. That's if you aren't against the idea of using benzos. Some say seroquel is bad for opiate withdraw. But i swear seroquel helps me immensely for sleep. Very low dosages though. Like 25-50mgs. Also i know this detox place that offers at the end of suboxone tapers tramadol 50mgs to be used for 7 days. Starting at 200mg's and working your way down gradually. But at the very least get clondine!

I really hope to see you get through this as it empowers me to keep distancing myself away from this drug as best as i can! And once you feel better. You can maybe cheer me on when i get to where your at! Good job on the damage control of tapering to the point where you are now! It has to get bad before it gets better. Maybe try a flush kit to help your body out! Keep pushing! It will be over before you know it!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:39 am 
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will430 wrote:
Dee your doing a amazing job. And you know what. Want to be free is right. I think (not a fact) that since your allready withdrawing at that dose you are better off just continuing on! If you need to use some Imodium to help with the runs. It works great. Sometimes i would take up to 12 to 20mgs of lopermide to help. Yes it seems like a lot. But subs are just as bad at constipating you. So i swear by it. It helps! But only use it when you feel you need to! Absolutely get clondine since it helps keep your body from going hot/cold and will help with sleep if need be. If possible get a small amount of benzos to help with the anxiety which i know is a bad symptom for me. Klonopin is what i recommend since it lasts a long time. But ativan, xanax, or even valium are all good choices. But use them only for a few days. That's if you aren't against the idea of using benzos. Some say seroquel is bad for opiate withdraw. But i swear seroquel helps me immensely for sleep. Very low dosages though. Like 25-50mgs. Also i know this detox place that offers at the end of suboxone tapers tramadol 50mgs to be used for 7 days. Starting at 200mg's and working your way down gradually. But at the very least get clondine!

I really hope to see you get through this as it empowers me to keep distancing myself away from this drug as best as i can! And once you feel better. You can maybe cheer me on when i get to where your at! Good job on the damage control of tapering to the point where you are now! It has to get bad before it gets better. Maybe try a flush kit to help your body out! Keep pushing! It will be over before you know it!


Hey Will, really appreciate your post. I am off to my GP in two hrs and going to write some of this stuff down. Hopefully the doctor helps me and does not tell me to go back to the drug service because they won't give me anything but zopiclone. I am already feeling really anxious and emotional so will def ask for something for that. Will write down what you've wrote and speak to the doctor. I will def take some help to try and ease some of these symptoms. I am not taking any more suboxone as you're right..what's the point when i'm already in withdrawal. Just got to try and get some meds to help today and ride this rollercoaster till it lets me get off!!

I know what you mean by these threads empowering you..if I can help you then that also helps me :) This is such a great place for all of us coming off suboxone. I just keep reading all the threads and it gives me strength.

Once again thanks for your helpful post. I will update later after i've seen my GP. Fingers crossed he helps me.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Hello again Dee I wanted to check on you

If you have to financials allowing go see another doctor if it continues. If you have to use what I did, tell them you haven't slept in 8-9 days that you've tried every single over the counter suppliment and nothing has worked. I had to suggest Clonidine to my doctor, he really had absolutely no idea what to do. He was just a family practice doctor with no experience with suboxone -or- addiction in any manner. I told him everything, including me writing about my struggles. That many other people going through the same process highly recommend it.

I really hope you managed to get something. Most doctor's are quite clueless I've noticed. I'm pretty sure half of them don't know what suboxone even is.

Do not fret if you didn't, you certainly won't die ( like that is encouraging aha ). I see so much of you inside me. Your mentality is awesome. You sound determined, you've reached out for help. That's incredibly smart and in my opinion important. You've got the building blocks for success.

In my post I made things seem rather awful. Truly awful. I'm going to blame feeling like an emotional child that was given a puppy and then had it taken away. This problem..this disease can be beat. In the grand scheme of things its a very small blip in your life. It's something you will never forget and something that hopefully will teach you a grand lesson. I don't think its fair we have to pay that much of a price, but its a price that you will not regret once you make it through.

I could go for hours on how much things will get better, how much you will be estatic you choosed to quit. You sound like you already know that. Your dreams for the future will be so quickly realized. Your body will be yours again. Everything you want and desire can easily be yours again. We felt so similar in our reasoning. Not wanting to be controlled, not wanting to rely on a stupid strip or pill to feel somewhat like a normal human being. To really know and understand that the emotions are real. Oh my, its so worth it.

Grab immodium, keep it around at all times. Either the name brand or generic work miracles. Also buy Baby wipes, your ahem behind will thank you.

Also grab something called Unisom its an over the counter sleep aid. It's supposedly non addictive and I've run into no problems with using it. I got clonidine around the same time ( but I still think Unisom works ).

You will cry at the drop of a hat, you will cry when a good song comes on, you will cry reading posts on this forum. It's absolutely normal. It's nothing to be concerned about. It's helping you. Remember you are Atleast feeling! You're feeling intense emotions that were probably quite dormant on subs.

Honestly your withdrawals are already hitting you, that's actually a good thing. If you were on the no effects for 3 days I'd worry. The great part for me ( Atleast in my experience ), was my withdrawals started very quickly, they also let up rather quickly as well. It only took about 9 days to really feel - marginally better -. Do not fear the worst, be excited for the future. You've taken the hardest step, and that's jumping completely off.

I can't help but stress use your significant other. Talk to them, abuse there comfort. They are the strongest possible thing to lean on to get you through this process. Soon your sex drive should pick up, and A LOT. Abuse it! Your hubby wont mind! Take full advantage of getting those endorphins moving. Even if you feel like absolute death, sex can get your mind off it.

Another thing, and this thing absolutely sucks is getting exercise. Intense short periods of exercise can almost eliminate RLS, paired with hot baths and you can make it not so incredibly annoying.

The worst thing I did in my withdrawal period was sit around and not occupy my mind. I forced myself to continue my physical job because if I kept moving, if I didn't allow myself to barrage my mind with pity - I actually felt better. You don't have to go move furniture for people, but taking a walk or light jog can be a massive difference maker. It also helps promote endorphins.

Advil is also quite amazing. You don't realize how powerful it actually is while on opiates, but Advil can lesson a lot of the problems.

Dee, you've absolutely got this and I'll be here to cheer you on throughout your entire process. I'll be able to relate to everything you're going through. I really do understand. I know how hard this really is. Be positive, do not fear the withdrawals. A short unhappy period and than everything will be cupcakes and roses.

Be strong! Be strong for your family and your goals. Be strong for yourself.

You absolutely can be FREE!

-Andrew


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:21 am 
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Hey dee,

How are you doing today? Did you have any luck getting some comfort meds from the doctor?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:19 pm 
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In my most humble opinion, I think you need to readjust your expectations here.

3-4 years on suboxone? Depending on your daily doses during that time, you have built up quite high blood levels. It is going to take some time to COMFORTABLY come off.

You have been on suboxone for nearly half a decade. Let me reiterate that: nearly half a decade. A 15 day end taper is a joke. No other way to split that. You should be tapering to that over a span of weeks, if not months.

I know you've said you're fed up and you just want to be off of it already. Most of us do. But you are going to put yourself into a horrible position by rushing to the finish line. I say time and time again: it is a marathon, not a sprint. This shit takes time. As addicts we all love immediate gratification, but that is not what will be accomplished by rushing off of suboxone. Just the opposite will in fact be true.

Rushing to get off of suboxone "because you are fed up with it" is probably the worst route that a person can take. It is exactly what we addicts need to NOT be doing, and in my humble opinion exactly what screws a lot of people up.

Not saying to never come off of it at all. What I am saying is I think you need to take another, realistic look at what needs to be done, the time frame it needs to be done in, and how ready you even are to begin doing these things.

I am also not saying these things to scare you. Rather I want to be pragmatic and help to give you the best chance possible at getting to where you want to be. It takes time, patience, effort, hard work, and pretty much a million other things. It is hard, don't get it twisted. You will have to do a lot of shit you don't want to do, a lot of shit you don't feel comfortable doing, and a lot of stuff you WISH more than anything wouldn't be so. Its the reality of the situation however.

'It ain't easy.'

Best of luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Hey everyone. THanks for your replies. I have read them, and I will reply later when I get more time. Not been easy with a 4 yr old.

I have no more suboxone in the flat and today has been one hell of an emotionally rollercoaster. I'm not going back onto it, I can't, I won't. I am going to just run with it, hard times and all.

I have to go back to my doctor tomorrow because they gp I see would not give me anything, told me to go back to the drug service I was under. One big fucking joke. All I have is sleeping tablets which did knock me out last night. Had lots of support today from family calling me up as my partner rang my mum because I felt so low that I honestly believe everyone is better off withotu me..yet atm I don't feel too bad. WHat a head FUCK!! My legs are so restless..energy levels are so low. I had to really force myself to tidy up today and it took it all out of me. I hate this feeling...but I would be so unhappy to go back onto the shit. I can't do suboxone any longer...the depression from not being able to move on was just TOO much for me!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:28 pm 
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My body feels hot and like it's full of goospimples. Could I be starting to hit the very hitting the worst of it? How long on average does it last?

FUCK


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