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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:29 am 
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Hi there I have been on this drug entirely to long and I feel as if I just traded one kinda dope for another that is legal. I was a heavy IV opiate user for 5yrs & was prescribed Suboxone after a near fatal OD...I've been on it since!! I am sick & tired of being sick & tired! If I run out of meds or cannot afford to see my Dr I am forced to buy them off the street & I mean correct me if I am wrong but that is the EXACT reason I wanted off opiates...so I could finally quit chasing drugs so I am not sick!! I am not doing anything different than I was when I was using. Anyway...not gonna go into a rant here but like I said...I am ready to become independent from all mind altering shit. This is around my 40hr mark with absolutely nothing & so far all that is going on is the runny nose but, I know much worse is coming. So my question is how do I get through it without losing my job? Getting benzo's, clonidine or, anything else to alleviate the discomfort isn't going to be possible so I am doing this truly cold turkey and I take at least 16mg a day! Tapering isn't an option either because if I have them in hand...I am going to take what I need to in order to feel perfect. Please help me get through this one cause I know it's gonna be a long haul!! I did detox from them once before in jail and it was absolute torture for at least 3wks but, I was also detoxing from nicotine, caffeine and, benzo's so I am sure that played a part in me being miserable. Like I said this is around my 40hr mark without anything and I need some help to get through the next 40 days. I am a strong willed person and once I set my mind to something I'll do it come hell or high water I will keep ya'll posted daily as to how I am progressing.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:59 am 
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Hi Ready,

We have lots of threads here about different members jump experiences. Going from 16mgs per day is going to be a tough haul, but I guess it can be done. You know what you're in for, so at least you aren't going into it blind. Do a little searching, and I'm sure you can find some threads that will be helpful to you.

Why can't you use clonidine? Is it just because you don't have access to it? I don't think it will cause you any problems on a drug screen, and it is the most helpful aid I have seen to help with WD. If not, then lots of hot baths/showers, good movies or music to distract you, and mild exercise for the first few weeks is your best bet. Stock up on some immodium and some good healthy foods to help you through the first weeks as well.

Mostly it's just going to be about pushing through the long days and nights until your natural endorphins start firing again. Fake it until you make it.

What are your plans for long term recovery support? Do you have a system in place?

Check out the thread posted by evolvedrevolver about his liquid taper method. I know it isn't what you are planning on doing, but he has posted some good vitamin and herbal supplements that helped him through his whole process.

Good luck!

Q

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:56 am 
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Hi R2LW, jumping from 16 Mgs/day does sound like a challenge, especially if you aren't able to get some time off work. Search for a Stopping Suboxone thread by a forum member named Romeo, he jumped from the same level. You might find reading about his experience useful.

I jumped from a tiny amount, about .2 mg/day, and working during my early detox was ok, though I had some sleep issues early on. It was a few weeks before I could get more than 2 hours a night, which made work difficult.

Good luck.

-- ji

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:47 am 
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Hey there thought I'd update everyone...I'm doing decent...a lot of restless limbs and it's interfering with sleep drastically but amazingly when I am at work I don't really have time to pay attention to all the crappy stuff going on I just drink imodium like water so I'm not running to restroom every 30 minutes & my employer knows what I am doing so he's been really easy to work with he was a former user himself so thankfully he understands. Today I am much better than the last couple of days I actually got about 3hrs of good sleep & that helped!! I feel like shit warmed over but I am staying strong I am truly sick of being dependent on shit! I feel as if I have been manipulated and lied too...well hell I guess I should feel that way because I have been! My doctor, his nurse and, everyone I spoke to about suboxone said "it's not addictive" "it'll help you get clean without horrible WD's and you can lay it down anytime you feel comfortable" this is a HUGE and I mean HUGE LIE that I was told!! Only did I learn after 4 months of use that the WD's from this...is far worse than WD from opiates because it takes FOREVER. I feel like the manufacturers should be held accountable for our discomfort and their gross negligence by lying to us all...the FDA only had info on this drug for SHORT TERM use like 7 days or so...or so I have read. I think someone should be held accountable this drug has saved my life and almost ruined my life at the same time...its like a double edged sword!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:21 pm 
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Ready2live...,

I highly recommend you not try jumping from such a high dose. Is there any reason why you can't give it to someone else to help you taper? You are just setting yourself up for some very uncomfortable days and nights.

It's all up to you to decide but I'd rather see you succeed at this and not suffer needlessly. If not, I wish only the best for you.

rule

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:29 am 
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I had heard that Subox was easy to get off, which is why I switched to it from Methadone (as I was tapering off of that drug).

When the Subs withdrawal symptoms hit, I went to my addiction doc (someone I respect a lot) and asked, 'why didn't you tell me it would be like this?' She said that at that time, there was basically no info available to her about long term users getting off Subs. In her experience (which is vast), Subs is easy to get off for people on it only a short time (e.g. a few months).

She also told me that after a certain point, very few long term users ever get off their prescription opiates. (Since we had that conversation, she has since hooked up with a network of Subs prescribers who are pooling their knowledge about Subs tapers/withdrawals.)

As rocky as my Subs taper/withdrawal got at times, I still think this was a better way to go than trying to quit heroin cold turkey. Heroin withdrawal is fairly short, but it's way, way more intense than Subs withdrawals. I was never able to quit heroin cold turkey, despite several agonizing attempts, which is why I went on Methadone/Subs in the first place.

What my addiction doc told me makes my fear for people who speak positively about the idea of staying on Subs indefinitely; it's pretty clear that the longer someone stays on it, the harder it becomes to get off of it. And we don't know the long-term physical and psychological effects of Suboxone, which hasn't been around all that long (2002 in the US, 2006 in Europe). So essentially people who do stay on it very long term are guinea pigs. Sort of like driving towards the edge of a cliff, without having any idea whether the brakes work (which is exactly the kind of way I live my life in active addiction).

-- ji




ready2livewithout wrote:
Hey there thought I'd update everyone...I'm doing decent...a lot of restless limbs and it's interfering with sleep drastically but amazingly when I am at work I don't really have time to pay attention to all the crappy stuff going on I just drink imodium like water so I'm not running to restroom every 30 minutes & my employer knows what I am doing so he's been really easy to work with he was a former user himself so thankfully he understands. Today I am much better than the last couple of days I actually got about 3hrs of good sleep & that helped!! I feel like shit warmed over but I am staying strong I am truly sick of being dependent on shit! I feel as if I have been manipulated and lied too...well hell I guess I should feel that way because I have been! My doctor, his nurse and, everyone I spoke to about suboxone said "it's not addictive" "it'll help you get clean without horrible WD's and you can lay it down anytime you feel comfortable" this is a HUGE and I mean HUGE LIE that I was told!! Only did I learn after 4 months of use that the WD's from this...is far worse than WD from opiates because it takes FOREVER. I feel like the manufacturers should be held accountable for our discomfort and their gross negligence by lying to us all...the FDA only had info on this drug for SHORT TERM use like 7 days or so...or so I have read. I think someone should be held accountable this drug has saved my life and almost ruined my life at the same time...its like a double edged sword!

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"Past and future veil God from our sight; burn both of them with fire."
-- Rumi, Sufi poet and teacher


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:32 am 
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The point of is to give chronic treatment for a chronic illness.We have a condition that will last the rest of our lives.
It must be treated for the rest our lives.
We can take medication each day or attend meetings several times a week.
Oh they work,but only in relatively few people who believe in the 12 step message. One way or the other it must last a lifetime.
Many addicts do very well on Buprenorphine, others can do well without it.If addicts continue with meetings or something similar ,fine,but if not and have left a Buprenorphine program chances are slim, and dangerous.
The withdraw from partial agonist Buprenorphine is less severe. ALL opiates have wd that lasts 2-3 months.And is followed by some kind of post acute withdraw. There doesn't seem to be away around this.Any addict is facing months of detox. Buprenorphine delays detox,giving addicts the chance to find themselves and work on themselves.The best thing about bupe is it fixs cravings, but it cant fix everything. No medicine is perfect.
Many people can taper off Buprenorphine and then experience the full course of there opiate wd.

A d it is true many good drs do not understand or have tapered addicts off Suboxone. There just now, at least some of them that I know, are learning methods to help those wanting off. The best thing I could do is send them to this site.. .


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:11 pm 
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I think your anger is understandable. Especially if you began treatment during the first few years of this drug being available. It's often necessary to have some kind of anger to motivate you to get through the long wd and be successful long-term.

However, I do think good information is available now for patients if they do any kind of research prior to starting treatment. I don't think it's fair to say that there was a conspiracy beween the FDA and the makers of Suboxone to trick addicts into becoming dependent on their product. It's more accurate to say that they just didn't have the information available about people who tried to discontinue it's use after long periods of time. The doctors who prescribed it were working with the knowledge that was available. Most doctors are now more aware of the difficulties of tapering subs and they are doing a better job of warning patients about that particular aspect of treatment.

This is why it's so important to research any kind of treatment you are considering before getting involved with it. We see new law suits popping up every day that are related to some drug or another. I literally just saw a commercial on TV about the anti-nausea drug Zofran causing birth defects when it is taken by pregnant women. There will always be unknown dangers involved with new drugs, some of which we would never be able to guess until after the fact. But, I don't think it should be a complete shock to anyone taking any kind of opiate for a long period of time, when they find it hard to quit. When I started suboxone treatment my doctor also told me that it would be easier to quit than regular opiates. I knew he was probably full of crap when he said it, and it wasn't a shock to me when I found out I was right. I think the bottom line is that doctors who aren't addicts just don't understand how hard it really is to quit any opiates.

Bottom line, I'm not angry with the people who made suboxone or the doctors who made it available for me to take. I'm still grateful I had the opportunity to get my life back to normal. The only thing I would do differently if given the chance is not to get addicted to opiates to begin with. If I only knew then what I know now. :roll:

Like I said though, if that anger gives you motivation to quit...then use it to your advantage! Whatever it takes to get you through this time is fine by me. I'm glad to see that you're hanging in there. Have you been going to any meetings or counseling yet?

Q

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No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:25 am 
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I knew when i got on Sub that is would be hard when/if i wanted to get off. It was sub or die. My body was about to give out. I wanted a chance to get my life back and i am grateful for that.

Also want to ditto what others have said. I believe addiction is a chronic disease, just like diabetes. Once we start taking opiates it changes us. My family has many diabetics, from juvenile to adult onset and insulin allows them to live but with many side effects and serious complications of other organs. There are also other medications that have w/d associated with them. With those other medications the stigma is not attached...i find that to be the biggest obstacle.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I made an educated choice to treat a serious condition that would kill me.

To each their own...


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