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 Post subject: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:04 am 
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Hi all, I have been on subs for 11 years and have finally had enough of it. I will not bore you with my past issues but I have a 2 yr old and a new baby on the way due in 2 months. My wife doesn't even know I take this medicine and have finally realized that I AM DONE. I took my last does on 10/6/14 at 5:00 p.m. It is now 10/8/14 at 8:51 a.m. and I feel pretty good. I take tamazepam for sleep and slept really well last night. I am taking hylands restless leg pills and they seem to help a little. My mood is really good and positive but I have a feeling things are going to get worse. Yesterday was the first day off of them and I still noticed my pupils dilated which means I still had the drug in my system. Today they look a lot bigger but are still dilated. I have read that I will feel pretty shitty for awhile but wonder how long. I quit a 2 pack a day cig habit cold turkey and that gave me extreme confidence to try subs this way. I will keep you all posted but appreciate anything you can post to help me through this difficult jump!


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:48 am 
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Welcome! Glad to hear you are quitting. Do you mind if I ask why you are jumping from such a high dose? I was very much in the same place as you, hiding my addictions from my family (they found out) and had my 2nd child on the way. I read something another poster said (sorry can't remember who) that said they could look at every picture taken of their kids the last few years and know exactly what they were on at the time... that is exactly how I was. I hated myself for not being sober for my children. I still hate myself for the mistakes I made, but I am learning to accept the past and live in the moment. There is nothing I can do now about the mistakes I made except learn from them and not make the same mistakes again.

My point is that on such a high dose you probably aren't going to feel much for 48 hours as the suboxone is still in your system. That combined with the fact that you have been on subs a long time (11 years) and may be in for a freight train. I jumped off .5mg 32 days ago and I had withdrawal for over 2 weeks and still have PAWS. Is there a reason you can't do a quick taper? I know that many addicts say that they can't taper, they just don't have the willpower, and I am the same way. The ONLY way I could taper was to tell the doctor exactly what I was going down to in dosage and I wasn't allowed anything else. I had to be very honest with my doctor and since she already knew I was an addict it was a perfectly reasonable request.

Could you try giving your suboxone to a trusted friend (non-addict) who could ration them out to you (if that is a concern)? I just worry that jumping from that high a dose is a noble attempt but one that may be extremely difficult. Please keep us posted


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:00 am 
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Thanks for the reply. I could never taper. I have tried that in the past but ended up increasing my dosage almost immediately. I am sure that a freight train is coming but I will try my best. I have read that if the withdrawals are really bad I could take a tiny amount (.25-.50) and continue on that way. Maybe skipping every other day until I feel normal. All I know is that I am done and am prepared to be in for a fight of my life. If people addicted to heroin go to jail, they have to get clean quick. They can't taper so if someone like that can quit cold turkey why can't I? I will keep you all posted as I go through this and please keep your fingers crossed!


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:05 pm 
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Hi umass24,

How much Suboxone were you on? I read, and re-read your post and couldn't find it. But you saying you couldn't taper tells me it's at least 2+ mg's at the very least. (Nevermind, I just saw it in the title)

Yes, you can just take a little bit to lessen the symptoms of withdrawal. Take your sweet time too. One member here did just that. It took six months but ended up a successful jump. If you are determined, you'll do it too.

Be careful of slipping back to your drug of choice. (doc) If your cravings get too much to handle, give in and take more Suboxone. That won't ruin your life.

BTW, you only need one section to post your topic. I will delete and or merge the other ones into this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:17 am 
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Hi umass24,

Congrats on your decision and welcome to the forum :D .
Today is your "day 3" off suboxone, right? There was another guy a bit ago who jumped from 24mgs and I remember thinking he was kinda crazy jumping from that high, but he was also a dad who said he was doing it for his family, and he did it! He kept working and kept his sense of humor (at least it seemed that way from his posts), so it can be done!

I tapered very slowly (about 6 months) from 12mgs to .375mgs before I jumped almost 4 months ago. I still had a week or so of feeling pretty drained and uncomfortable, but maneagble. From what I've read, no one from "what ever" they jump from has been so sick that all they can do is lie in bed. In fact to feel a bit better you'll need to do the opposite of that and get some excercise as much as possible.
Be ready to not sleep too well for awhile, but it does get better and a few weeks of insomnia won't kill anyone, right?

Besides excercise, hot baths, clonodine (blood pressure med that helps cut down that RLS feeling), and listening to uplifting music helped me a lot. Oh, and prayer and meditation!

Keep posting and good luck!
BF

PS. The way I managed to taper was I kind of "tricked" myself I guess. I did not focus on "quitting", but just told myself if I would just taper a tiny bit at a time "eventually" I'd be at "zero". Then I just cut a tiny bit off what I was taking, and continued to split the rest evenly (I used to dose 3 times a day over 8 years!), and would stabalize for 3 weeks, then repeat that way. It really was not hard at all until I got down to 1mg which I 'thought" was super low (turns out it is not!), then I joined this forum and got a lot of great advice and support while I continued to taper lower. Going from 3doses a day to 2 when I got down to .5mgs was kind of a mind f---, but physically not that bad. But if I had to do it again, I think I'd probably go ahead and jump from 1mg or .5mg because I think I may have just drawn out the wdls at that point.

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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:10 am 
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Morning, I had another great night. Like I said previously I have been taking a sleeping pill to help at night (non addicting). My energy today is pretty good. I am actually quite surprised at how well I feel. I was scared that I would feel like not getting out of bed and being useless. I have been pushing it the past two days by going to the gym and I also take the hylands restless leg pills religiously every 4 hours. I did have several moments yesterday when I would just start sweating for no reason but pushed through it. Hopefully today will be a great day and thanks for all the support!!


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:10 am 
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I have also been making a shake every morning that contains Kale, Spinach, carrots, celery, strawberries, banana and protein powder. I am 64 hours since my last dose. I am assuming that my symptoms going forward are not going to get worse than they have been the past couple of days? Is that true or will I develop new and annoying symptoms as this is leaving my body? Does anyone know how long it takes to fully leave your body once the last dose is taken? Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:49 am 
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Sounds like you are doing all the right things. Buprenorphine has a half life of up to 48 hours, so you should be in withdrawal. I think many people find the lack of sleep to be the hardest part, so if you are having no trouble there you may be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:48 am 
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I found this useful chart on the half life of subs.....

http://www.naabt.org/tl/16mgs-11day-37halflife.jpg

It is amazing that they stay in your system for so long....I am wondering if I am not out of the woods yet even entering day 3????


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:23 pm 
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Hey Mass,
With Suboxone stacking effect, and the very high jump, it seems to me that no, you are not out of the woods.
I hope that you have picked up some comfort meds.

Maybe read up some more on just what a high jump is and can be.
More power to ya bud.
Hope all goes well...

Razor...


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:24 pm 
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Razor, what comfort meds are you talking about? Without prescription I mean?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:07 pm 
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Sounds like you are making lots of great healthy choices to help you through- keep it up!
The comfort med that was suggested for me by others on this forum (and which I was very glad I got!) was clonodine, but that is a prescription med (non addicting), but well worth it if you can get it! I also used Xanax, but of course that can be addictive and it is also prescription. I got a blood pressure cuff and monitored my bp, and used the clonodine to bring my pressure down into normal range which made me more comfortable. I'm pretty healthy, and do not normally have high bp, but I did during wdls.
I believe from a low jump, the worst days are around days 2-4. My worst was day 2, and I just improved from there, but it was a slow improvement, and at almost 4 months in, although I generally feel great, I am still sneezing now and then, and I don't think my energy and clarity have totally improved yet, but nothing really to complain about.

Not to scare you, but I think from a high jump, the "peak" wdls are around 7-10 days in, but it could be different for you. Personally I jumped very low, so maybe someone else with actual experience from a higher jump can give you a better idea of what to expect.
Keep posting- I'm rooting for you! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:29 pm 
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Hey Mass,
As mentioned, clonidine and Benzos can an do help along with imodium. The fact that you are active and eating very well gives you a good foundation to start..

There are two approach to stopping. Taper slowly and just jumping. Do you have Suboxone left over. If so you may want to rid yourself of it. Knowing it is within reach could really put you back.

When jumping, planning to be miserable for a good few weeks and then just tolerating it. For this approach, the main thing is to STICK WITH IT. in order for your receptors to return to normal, you must be miserable-that misery is what causes the neutrons to manufacture new receptors. Any breaks by using for a day to ease the wd will turn off the forces that are moving you toward feeling better, delaying the process by days to weeks.
This is what I have learned here. Hopefully you are free of any contacts who may be using and that you are involved with some other recovery program. That fact your wife is there and your a family man will help. And a we baby on the way. Congrats..

As Dr j has posted your withdraw should peak in 4 7days after stopping followed by slow recovery that accelerates each week. There is much written here on the Stop Forum. Read as much as you can.
Eating well an exercise and of course Time is your best friend.

Keep posting an hang in there


Razor..


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:12 am 
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Hey all thanks for the great advice. Yesterday(day 3) was my worst day so far. Real bad restless legs but manageable. My energy is ok not like I can't get out of bed just not feeling like going the extra mile but I am forcing myself to hit the gym. I do have some left over but will get rid of today. I feel that I'd I've made it this far then I am good. Sometimes it's a mind over matter thing but that works too. I honestly feel that if I knew it was this easy to quit I would've did it years ago. The problems now is doing things I did on subs without them. I used to not be able to function until 10 a.m. until I took my first dose.The last few days have been tough around that time but I have focused on something else till it passed. My legs feel great this morning but it is still very early and I have a long way to go today. I will update more later and thanks for all the support. This is the only place I can go too and speak about this. So far quiting cigarettes has been a little easier than quiting subs but subs is deff a little harder due to more symptoms.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:07 am 
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OK... Your doing this!
I'll say this you are a fighter it seems.
I'm not here to discourage you or anyone else, you need support and you ll get it here.
It's just one example of the highest jumps I've ever heard of here. I'm just afraid you may not even prepared for what may come.

But you know what?? Who says you can't do this? It can be!!

Other jumpers should be along to help you with questions and process.

Hopefully you have the weekend off. These next 5days should be very telling..
One thing you said does bother me, you stated something like " if you new it was this easy, you d have done it sooner'.. Maybe that's true. I've never jumped off the high board..
Hang in there Mass!! You have friends here....

Razor....


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:25 am 
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Razor, I appreciate the honesty but when I hear you state that the next few days maybe hell then it kind of gets me nervous. Do you speak from experience or just your opinion? I hope you are wrong because everyone's body is different but from my viewpoint, making 4 days has been an accomplishment. I am taking it day by day and will be strong. I will not give in to the easy way out which is to take a little sub. I am DONE! Bring on the withdrawals, they can not become worse than I have been going through after 48 hours. Maybe I am wrong and these next 5 days will be hell but hell to me was waking up one morning without any OC's and no money in the bank and dealing with those withdrawals: diarrhea, shakes, hot, cold sweats, no appetite, vomiting. Those were withdrawals not what I am going through now. This is a piece of cake! When I start feeling like shit during the day I think of cancer patients on chemo who must be going through a daily nightmare and that makes me push through.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:56 pm 
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Hey Mass,
Like I said I am not here to discourage, just a little awareness of what I've seen and how others here have done.
The most important thing is that You believe in yourself, and you do!
Also, I'm to give information that can help. Not scare.
Understanding how bupe works, how my Dr and Dr Junig see this process is vital as to what my understanding is. No, I've ever jumped from a high dose, never have. People I know have from lower doses. People here have. There are many threads, supportive threads on how many have done it or not done it.

With any opiate, as our Dr states here, it ll take 8 to 12 weeks to recover. And sub withdraw is much easier. Read some of the jumper threads to see how they did some of this. It could help you. I think it was Butterflying who had some good info for you yday.
My information comes from professionals and people or friends who have gone though it. But to answer you main question, no, I've never jumped from a high dose.

Keep posting and most importantly keep doing the work and healthy eating. You have a lot going for you...
Razor...


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:30 pm 
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umass-
I found a very similar story online that I wanted to share with you. This guy also made the jump from 24mg and he details very well his experience.

http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vbull ... hp?t=27471


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:40 pm 
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Thanks doinit I read the post and provides great insight. I am in for a little battle but nowhere near what I had expected. I honestly thought it would be so much harder to quit. I am working everyday and playing with my daughter at night. My saving grace is being able to sleep through the whole night thank god for meds. Once again thanks for all your great insights and help. I will be back soon to update but so far I am having an awesome day, just a little RLS.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumping from 24 MG
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:29 pm 
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Ok, I'll be the Debbie Downer here.

DO NOT GET RID OF THE SUB YOU HAVE ON HAND.

You still have so much suboxone built up in your system right now. You're only in the very beginning of withdrawal. I'm sorry, but it's true. Even if you're body has already dwindled it down to, say, 2mgs by now - that's still plenty to keep you from being sick. I never went above 2mg and I had zero withdrawal feeling at that dose. Not even really at 1mg.

I do not say this to discourage. I've been off sub for nearly a year and I love it. It's awesome and doable. But I'm afraid you're setting yourself for failure. You say your wife doesn't know? You gotta tell her. She can be a great support for you. Your going to be sick. And even after your sick you're likely going to feel fatigued, have the chills, be generally blaaaah. I experienced those for at least a month, maybe closer to two. And I jumped from .25mg.

Again, I don't say this to discourage. You can do this. But you gotta do it right. If you really don't want to taper, then at least keep a few around and take little slivers here and there. It might feel like it's setting yourself back but it's just a cushion to ease the landing.

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