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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:08 am 
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Hello,

I'm new to this site. I posted in some other forums looking for some encouragement but didn't get much - actually virtually no - response so I posting here desperate hoping for answers and encouragement, hoping for some more responses because I need them so badly. Anyway, cutting right to the chase, I'm jumping off 5-6 mg of suboxone. Doing it this way because I tried tapering and couldn't do it, and began abusing the suboxone. I started using multiple doses to elevate my mood and it got out of control so I decided this is the only way for me. So here I am ending my fourth day without the drug.

My question is - why don't I feel that bad? And I'm on day four! Shouldn't I be feeling really bad by now? They say it starts at day 3. What the heck? So my sub doc prescribed me a Clonadine patch, Lyrica, and Valium. I've been taking B6 and a multivitamin. I don't know if these things (plus walks, hot baths, and NA meetings) are what's making the difference but this is only about 5% of the withdrawal I felt from huge amounts of oxy way back in the day before my induction when I was taking like 400 mg of oxy a day, would run out before my next doc appointment and would be driven into excruciating withdrawal in a matter of hours.

At this time the worst things are some restless and achy arms and legs keeping me from being able to sleep longer than 1.5-2 hours at a time. The runny nose and yawning I experienced in days 1-3 are gone. Starting to move my bowels a bit so I guess that's on it's way. But all in all I don't feel that bad! The achy legs are cured, at least for awhile, by hot baths, and my doldrums and despair are lifted by walks and blasting inspirational music.

Can someone please tell me what's going on? Is my withdrawal just more delayed than usual because I took a bigger than usual dose for my last dose on Thursday (4 days ago)? Or are the medications working really well? Or is suboxone withdrawal just not as bad as oxy withdrawal? Please please I need some responses. I am lonely and scared that it's going to get really bad all of a sudden. I am committed to stopping this (heck after four days I would never want to have to do throw four days again).

Thank you in advance for your responses. I really really need some support. I am off in a very remote area and don't know many people out here.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:03 am 
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First the bad news. You're going to feel much worse in a couple few days. I don't envy you.

The good news. On other forums, I've read the diaries of a couple people who jumped from 8mg and made it through. Get lots of support (online if you are isolated as you said, but it might be worth the drive - assuming you do drive - even if once a week to some form of support group. You'd probably make some new friends and some might be closer to where you live) and use whatever opiate withdrawal meds you can get, although it sounds like you already have most of the good ones (Phenergan is one I might add to the list if you can get it. See following for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promethazine) , and obviously, keep up with your nutrition even if it means just drinking liquid meal replacements like Boost or Ensure until you can do real food again, if your appetite goes south for the winter of withdrawal. And stay hydrated, with plenty of water and some gatorade here and there to keep your electrolytes where they should be (bananas help with the electrolytes too). Low electrolytes can lead to racing heart, contribute to restless leg syndrome, and other bad stuff. Caffeinated beverages are diuretic as you probably know, and might also elevate anxiety during withdrawal, so if you've been a heavy coffee or redbull, mountain dew, etc., drinker, perhaps try green tea instead to prevent caffeine withdrawal headaches on top of sub withdrawal, it's very light on caffeine but enough to stop a caffeine withdrawal headache. A bonus with green tea is its actually quite healthy, it contains anti-oxidants, AND, contains an amino acid called theanine (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine ) that is calming, to offset caffeine jitters. Theanine is also isolated, synthesized and available alone in vitamin shops as a food supplement, to help with anxiety.

Best of luck! Thanks for joining up here. You'll be a powerful inspiration if you make it, whether as a high jumper (5-6 is quite a jump) or return to another tapering attempt, even though you sound committed to just getting it over with, with the high jump. I pretty much made it through a high jump , but from 2mg which is easy when compared to what you are attempting. I'm back on pain pills unfortunately because of a nasty bike accident injury (long story but here is the link to my thread: http://www.suboxforum.com/day-jump-from-2mg-t10351.html), but still glad to be done with the long, drawn-out sub withdrawal.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:22 am 
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Edited my previous post to add some more info.

This "Stopping Suboxone" sub-forum is a sometimes slower traffic-wise, than some of the other domains/sites with forums that are related to this topic, but this site is very quality. Quality over quantity!

Watch out for Romeo and Dirtyblonde, though. Nasty characters. j/k :P


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:02 am 
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Hey Newmom,
Welcome to the forum! It also took me a few tries at other sites before I found this one.You WILL get responses and support here, so I'm glad you found us! I'm kinda in the same boat as you and will try and help, but there are many people here who are much farther down the road than I am and can offer much more wisdom and I'm sure they will.
Boop for example who posted to you first, is spot on I believe. I tapered down from 12 mg to 2 mgs (my thread is called "need support"), then found this site the day I went to 1mg about a month ago, and am now at .375mgs and STILL not ready to jump, so 5-6 mgs sounds like a WAY high distance to jump from, but it has been done. I've read a few (very few) who have jumped from around 8mg but the wdl was hell and long and drawn out. I'm not trying to scare you, but I would definitely suggest you reconsider a taper. There are lots of people here who could help you, support you, and show you that it can be done. So, yeah, I don't blame you for being scared- I was/ am scared and at a much much lower dose.

I'm assuming you are female and a mom from your user name. I am too, and there are a few others of
us on this forum.I've been thinking of starting a separate "mom's only" thread for those of us dealing with suboxone wdls and also having to care for children at the same time- it adds a whole new dimension to the process, and is one of the things that has kept me chained to subs for a long long time. So, if you're a mom, I can also relate, if not.....interesting choice of user name (lol)

Please keep posting and reading other posts here. You may still be scared, but you are no longer alone!!
rca


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:57 am 
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Welcome! 11 days ago I jumped from 2 mgs and I have to be brutally honest, the 6th day into the evening of the 8th were very very tough for me. Stick it out, hang onto the sides of the boat and ride out the waves.

Once you hit the 10th day or so, things ease up. Stuffstill lingers a little but far less intense. I also wasn't prepared for the mental part of it so write down some coping activities and do them when anxiety hits or cravings.

lastly, post post post. Getting your thoughts out is very therapeutic. I am sure I sounded like a whiner on a couple od posts when I was at my worst but you wont find one person here that isnt supportive so post the good thebad the ugly. It helps. Trust me!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:07 pm 
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Wow! Thank you everyone so much for your responses! I appreciate them from the very bottom of my heart.

I always wanted to do the taper. I managed to taper from 8 to 4 within 3 months. Then I started using it recreationally to elevate my mood. With my history of addiction to oxy/vics/fent I recognized the addictive behavior. I tried for two and a half years to wean down - I even had liquid doses! But I always ended up passing it up and putting it off. Taking extra doses to elevate my mood and all that. I don't have anyone I trust to dispense to me either. Two and a half years later I recognized my addictive behaviors, and so have finally admitted to myself that I have an unmanageable addiction to this stuff and the solution has become the problem. So, tapering is just not an option for me.

Yes, I am a Mom with a beautiful 3 year old son. He was born with a dependency to oxy and had to be hospitalized in the NICU while they weaned him off morphine. Watching him go through that crushed my soul with guilt and shame. Many of us are familiar with the horror of full blown opiate withdrawal, and can you imagine a little innocent baby going through that it his first days of life? This is when I switched to the suboxone. Thank the Lord my son is a healthy boy, almost three years old now.

I so a wonderful opportunity came up for me. My husband got the month of June off. My Mom, who loves in a very remote area, agreed to help take care of me (also removing me from the responsibility of caring for my son, which my husband is doing). My doc agreed to write me out on disability. Doc also prescribed me these meds to ease the withdrawals and they seem to be working.

Last night I got a full five hours of sleep directly after I took the Lyrica. I think maybe thy is the trick to getting some sleep (without it, and with just Valium/Unisom, I can't stay asleep longer than 1 hour now). Today I will take at least one walk and blast my inspirational music - this helps incredibly.

Thank you so much everyone for your support. I will continue posting and looking for more responses. You guys are wonderful and I thank God for this site.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:22 pm 
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Not to scare you, but be extremely careful with the lyrica. It can cause opiate like withdrawals if taken for awhile and then suddenly stopped. My father was taking it for his diabetic pain and he suffered withdrawals when he weaned off it. Just a thought.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:40 pm 
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Thanks for the warning. I only have 14 pills so hopefully that won't be enough to cause a dependency that will produce withdrawals. How long did you'd Dad take or for?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:37 pm 
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Nah, 14 pills shouldn't do much. My dad was on it for months and when he tapered off he felt pretty shitty but didn't realize what it was and thought he had a flu or something. Oh the wonders of havingno clue about physical dependence!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:39 pm 
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Hi and welcome! You are no longer alone! Like rca said, there are other mothers here, me being one of them (obviously right) and it is not easy taking care of a little one while doing a detox. I also have a toddler, and I don't need to tell you, it is nonstop work. But more than worth it right! I am currently on day 2 subs free, but I tapered down quite a bit, to about .25, and my length and amount of habit was not very large at all. I'm sure you already know about the 36 hour half-life, which I'm sure is why the symptoms haven't hit you that hard. BUT, it's possible! Romeo is a poster who jumped from 8 mg, and last week I believe he celebrated 4 years clean!! It sounds like you have everything you need: help with your son, meds, and time. Keep posting everyday no matter what! You don't have to do this alone! And if you do decide to go with a taper, me, rca, and a few others have, or are currently doing, successful tapers to very low doses. I am on day 2 and have very little symptoms. But I also have meds which are helping a lot.

Keep us posted!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:43 pm 
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Thank you all for your support. Okay. Day 6. Things are still very very manageable. No nausea or stomach cramps (though some loss of appetite). No diarrhea (yet lol). Extreeeeeeemely weak - tenfold weaker than I've ever felt in my life. Mainly this darn difficulty sleeping. Ugh it sucks! What do you also when you're withdrawing and can't sleep? Should I just stay in bed and hope it comes? Because you know when you have that restless feeling and you know sleep is not going to come. Or should I give up, get up and just try to do something else? Here's the thing. The whole thing that started my addiction is chronic back pain from a spinal fusion I had as a kid due to sever rapidly progressing scoliosis, and feeling that pain is another nuisance in this ordeal, and the longer I sit or lay down the more it hurts. Annoying!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:23 pm 
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Phew, that's a high dose to jump from, but all in all, it sounds like you're doing really well for being on day 6. As has been said, Suboxone has a long half life, so it usually takes a good day or two for a high jumper to really feel wd and then that wd will usually peak around day 7 - day 10.

Suboxone wd, in my experience, is extremely hard to predict. A few days after I jumped (from around 8mg.....technically I think 5mg was my last dose, but was on 8mg in the days leading up to my jump) another poster here jumped from an even higher dose. I want to say she was at 24mg or so. Ugh, that hurt just to type that!! lol. Anyhow, her wd was much smoother than mine. Don't get me wrong, we were both hurting, but my wd seemed so much worse? Guess I'm just a baby?

So, the dose you jump from is not always the best way to predict your wd.

As for not sleeping and just staying in bed, that never worked for me. I would just become more and more restless. I eventually found out that getting up, having a snack (eating releases endorphins, the body's natural opiates), watching something highly stupid on TV, then going back to bed worked best.

I never had my spine fused, but both my ankles are fused. Left foot, subtalar joint. Right foot, talar joint. While on opiates, my pain was never fully gone. Amazingly, once getting off all opiates, including Suboxone, my pain is all but gone now. Have you ever heard of Opiate Induced Hyperalgesia? It's where opiates actually make us hyper-sensitive to pain, once the opiate is removed and our opiate receptors normalize, the pain goes away.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:43 pm 
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Thank you to everyone who is posting and supporting me! It is so uplifting to know others have made it through, and there are also other Moms out there dealing with this.

Romeo, I'm so glad you posted, apparently you're legendary on this forum as an 8 mg jumper!

I know exactly what you're talking about re opiate induced hyperalgesia. Before I went on sub, I was on massive amounts of all kinds of stuff for my back - oxy/Norco/fent/morphine and my pain just got worse and worse. In fact, my back already feels better now than it did days 1-3 when the bulk of the medicine was leaving my system. It hurts like I said but is not agonizing and it's not waking me up (nope, my restlessness is taking care of that for me ;-)

Thank you for the words of encouragement. As day 6 draws to a close I am floored that I have made it this far. No turning back. I will continue to post. Who knows, maybe tomorrow it will all come down on me like a ton of bricks and I'll need extra support lol


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:52 pm 
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Awesome job sticking to it and pushing through! Day 13 for me tomorrow and still hanging in there! Keep posting it helps alot!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:20 am 
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Day 13, you're an inspiration to me! I'll be there soon, just wait and see!! :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:47 am 
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Hey Newmom,
Just wanted to let you know I've been keeping up on your thread and am thinking about you and praying for you! How are you feeling? I am impressed with your determination and attitude! Keep it up and keep posting!
rca


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:18 am 
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Newmomsf said, "Romeo, I'm so glad you posted, apparently you're legendary on this forum as an 8 mg jumper!"

I may be legendarily stupid, but that's about it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:38 am 
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Romeo wrote:
Newmomsf said, "Romeo, I'm so glad you posted, apparently you're legendary on this forum as an 8 mg jumper!"

I may be legendarily stupid, but that's about it.


I'll vouch for that!!
(jk- :lol: )


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:57 pm 
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Boop, RCA, trainer, Mama, and Romeo,

You guys are really keeping my spirits uplifted! I woke up today and was like yesssss day 7!!! From what I understand, even under the most extended view of how long "the worst of it" lasts, I'm half way through!!!

And here's the other thing. I feel great today! I managed to sleep in two 4-5 hour chunks last night, just waking up once and taking a second dose of Valium and unisom. Lol it's actually pretty funny, my mom had to wake me up because I have a 9 am appointment at the recovery center to begin my local outpatient treatment (since, being 2000 miles from home, I obviously can't see my usual therapist). On my way now.

Thanks again everybody, and to those of you who are on the same journey as I, let's grasp hands and continue weathering the storm!

Hugs


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:10 pm 
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Awesome post! So lucky with the sleep! I am still waiting to get more than 3 hours. Soon I hope!!!!!!


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