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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:19 am 
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Hey guys, this is my first post on this forum so I'll give a little background on myself. I have been on subs twice, the first time was for 22 months from 2004-2006. This proceeded being addicted to painkillers for nine months. Back then I didn't do any research about bups/subs and after tapering down to a microscopic amount I jumped and remember feeling some withdrawal symptoms for about 3-4 weeks then feeling ok. One of the main problems I remember having back then was stomach issues. I had loose stool for almost a month and drank pepto bismol daily. Fortunately the problems went away after awhile. Before quitting subs I had also stopped smoking weed which I used to do daily. I remember 4 months after being off subs I smoked and the next day I couldn't stop sneezing. A week later I smoked again and the same thing happened. Antihistamines didn't help so I just stopped entertaining the idea of smoking. Some more background, I generally have a lot of anxiety and have taken alprazolam for over 5 years now, I am currently only on about .7mg/day.

Unfortunately I relapsed back onto pain pills in the fall of 2007, this time I took them daily for a longer period of time, until the fall of 2009. I was doing about 140mg of oxy a day by the end. I committed myself at this point to stopping for good. I went to see a sub doctor and started back on 8mg/day of subuxone. I slowly, probably too slowly, weened down month by month. Fast forward to this March and I went to my bimonthly meeting with my subdoc who said I should start to try to ween off completely. I had been on .2mg/day for about two months and felt fine. I am self employed so I don't have to wake up early for work or interact with people daily so there was no reason for me not to try harder to finally get off. Also, I have been on the 2mg film strips for the past eight months or so.

Over the past six weeks I have gone down to .07 mg/day which I took for around two weeks. During this time going from .2mg to .07 I have had stomach issues with loose stool, and thanks to this forum I started taking immodium instead of drinking pepto bismol. My mood and spirits have been very good so three days ago I didn't take any sub until right before bed I took a .03mg sliver to help me sleep. The entire next day I felt fine and went to bed without taking anymore. I took some clonidine which my doctor prescribed and said was non addictive(although I have read it can be addicting) and a half mg of alprazolam. About four hours later at 7am I woke up extremely restless with my brain racing. My body was tired but I couldn't get back to sleep so I took a .02mg or slightly less sliver of film. Shortly after I fell into a sound sleep for the next four hours. I felt great for the rest of the day and went to bed, this time taking a Tylenol PM to help me fall asleep. I woke up after 3 hours again feeling the same way, so I took another .02mg piece of film. I got to sleep after that and have felt fine right up until the time I am writing this post.

I'll update this thread with my progress during the next few weeks and I hope to get some advice from you guys as well. For those that have jumped is there anything that helped you with staying asleep? I don't want to take too much clonidine or alprazolam before I go to bed and even when I have taken more in the past it only helps me fall asleep and not stay asleep. I feel like I am going to listen to my body and if I wake up completely restless tonite I will just take a very tiny amount of sub right before I sleep for a few more days before trying to jump again. This post is already too long so I will add anything else in a new post.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:24 am 
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Hi Halo,

Welcome to the forum! I don't have any advice about the jump, it sure sounds like you are doing good to me! I am glad to hear that your taper is going so well for you...I am always inspired by good stories because I am going to be tapering sometime in the near future myself. I have been on subs for about 6 weeks now, so still kind of a newbie. Anyway...just wanted to give you a welcome and wish you luck with your jump. It's crazy the hell we have to put ourselves through to get off of a drug that we used to take because it felt so good. If I only knew then what I know now....Oh hell, who am I foolin'? I probably still would have done it!


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:39 am 
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Halo47 wrote:
Hey guys, this is my first post on this forum so I'll give a little background on myself. I have been on subs twice, the first time was for 22 months from 2004-2006. This proceeded being addicted to painkillers for nine months. Back then I didn't do any research about bups/subs and after tapering down to a microscopic amount I jumped and remember feeling some withdrawal symptoms for about 3-4 weeks then feeling ok. One of the main problems I remember having back then was stomach issues. I had loose stool for almost a month and drank pepto bismol daily. Fortunately the problems went away after awhile. Before quitting subs I had also stopped smoking weed which I used to do daily. I remember 4 months after being off subs I smoked and the next day I couldn't stop sneezing. A week later I smoked again and the same thing happened. Antihistamines didn't help so I just stopped entertaining the idea of smoking. Some more background, I generally have a lot of anxiety and have taken alprazolam for over 5 years now, I am currently only on about .7mg/day.

Unfortunately I relapsed back onto pain pills in the fall of 2007, this time I took them daily for a longer period of time, until the fall of 2009. I was doing about 140mg of oxy a day by the end. I committed myself at this point to stopping for good. I went to see a sub doctor and started back on 8mg/day of subuxone. I slowly, probably too slowly, weened down month by month. Fast forward to this March and I went to my bimonthly meeting with my subdoc who said I should start to try to ween off completely. I had been on .2mg/day for about two months and felt fine. I am self employed so I don't have to wake up early for work or interact with people daily so there was no reason for me not to try harder to finally get off. Also, I have been on the 2mg film strips for the past eight months or so.

Over the past six weeks I have gone down to .07 mg/day which I took for around two weeks. During this time going from .2mg to .07 I have had stomach issues with loose stool, and thanks to this forum I started taking immodium instead of drinking pepto bismol. My mood and spirits have been very good so three days ago I didn't take any sub until right before bed I took a .03mg sliver to help me sleep. The entire next day I felt fine and went to bed without taking anymore. I took some clonidine which my doctor prescribed and said was non addictive(although I have read it can be addicting) and a half mg of alprazolam. About four hours later at 7am I woke up extremely restless with my brain racing. My body was tired but I couldn't get back to sleep so I took a .02mg or slightly less sliver of film. Shortly after I fell into a sound sleep for the next four hours. I felt great for the rest of the day and went to bed, this time taking a Tylenol PM to help me fall asleep. I woke up after 3 hours again feeling the same way, so I took another .02mg piece of film. I got to sleep after that and have felt fine right up until the time I am writing this post.

I'll update this thread with my progress during the next few weeks and I hope to get some advice from you guys as well. For those that have jumped is there anything that helped you with staying asleep? I don't want to take too much clonidine or alprazolam before I go to bed and even when I have taken more in the past it only helps me fall asleep and not stay asleep. I feel like I am going to listen to my body and if I wake up completely restless tonite I will just take a very tiny amount of sub right before I sleep for a few more days before trying to jump again. This post is already too long so I will add anything else in a new post.


Good job getting your dose so low.

I jumped from 1/16 mg and barely felt anything acute. However, my sleep cycle took a while to return to normal. It was 5 hours for a while....then one night of 6....then a solid 6, etc. The best thing you can do it to not stress out over how many hours you are getting. I had the same issue with falling asleep and then waking up after 5 hours or so and that was it. It didn't matter when I went to bed (or I should say fell asleep). My body refused to sleep longer until it was ready. After a few nights of inadequate sleep, I'd get one much better night.

Some things that did help were physically wearing myself out, but not too close to bedtime. Also, hot baths before bed, then comfortable pj's, reading a book for a good while before even attempting to fall asleep, chamomile tea (brewed strong), and Melatonin. Melatonin helped immensely. The good thing about Melatonin is that I was able to take it for a while and then I'd just forget about it and simply stop.

The road to being completely free of post-Sub effects is quite long, to be honest. However, the symptoms grow lesser and lesser, so you will always feel the progress and that's encouraging. Be forewarned that any opiates you take after stopping will set you back substantially. I've had three surgeries/procedures since stopping Sub. It's like throwing a hungry lion a crumb, and your body restarts the diarrhea and other things. For me, it's my stomach and aching legs and sneezing. My last procedure was last week and I took pain meds for two days....and took the least that I could....but those things all kicked up again. Obviously, there are times when you don't have a whole lot of choice, but the point is to avoid it if possible.

Best of luck,
laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Hello Halo47, welcome to the forum. Laddertripper's advice about hot baths, and reading before bed helped me fall asleep. I also sometimes take Benadryl (I buy the generic of most meds since they are cheaper) to go to sleep. I have seen Dr. Junig recommend Benadryl as well. I alternate the Benadryl with Unisom (again, generic is cheaper). These are meds that make me fall asleep though.

I started drinking Tension Tamer tea or Sleepytime tea too. They don't make me feel anything, but I can tell that I definitely have an easier time falling back asleep after waking up in the middle of the night when I drink it...and I wake up a lot throughout the night. Once I started drinking this before bed, I usually found myself going back to sleep within 5 or 10 minutes of waking up each time.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Thanks for the replys guys. Last night I decided to take a tiny .02mg piece a couple hours before I went to bed. I still woke up after three hours but didn't feel as bad as the previous nights, so I took a half a clonidine and got back to decent sleep for another four hours. Today my nose is a little bit runny so I took a benadryl. I have been taking generic benadryl now and then to stop occasional sneezing fits and it does make me a little bit tired if I take it before bed. I will try getting some Unisom as well.
I'll listen to my body day by day but I think for the next few nights I will take a tiny piece of film before bed. After about a week of this it might be easier to jump with my body used to such a tiny amount of sub daily.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Just remember that the tendancy to reach for a drug when you experience any discomfort is one of the defining features of addiction. A little lost sleep or a runny nose is not going to kill you, especially in your situation. Your body is trying to return to normal, seeking homeostasis. Every time you ingest another psychoactive substance you're merely prolonging that process.

Also, the mental aspect of addiction is much more powerful than the physical. At that low dose, I feel you could jump at any time with minimum symptoms. I think you're psyching yourself out a little. I think being drug-free, and the confidence that would give, is more powerful than whatever you're getting from these tiny doses. Why not at least give it a try.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:38 am 
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Im my opinion laddertipper said it best, I didnt start sleeping good until like day 22 off subs, im at day 26 now. It will get better with time and some days will be better than others. Youre at a tiny amount, I jumped from .25mgs and was fine except for not sleeping right. Keep us updated.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:47 pm 
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I've been off subs for 7 days now, the last time I took a small piece was last Wednesday night. Feel great, pretty much no different than when I was on subs. The withdrawal symptoms I felt were very minor, in fact tapering down over the previous six weeks from .2mg to .06 I felt the symptoms more acutely than I did after I jumped. I have had some minor problems with sleep as mentioned before, however it seems to be getting better. 4 nights ago I only got 5 hours of sleep and then the next night I slept comfortably for 9 hours. 2 nights ago I woke up feeling restless but managed to get back to sleep for a bit and last night I would say I got a pretty normal 7 hours. My stomach problems are pretty much gone too.
So far so good and I don't anticipate having any problems in the future since I jumped at such a small amount. Good luck to those who are also getting ready to jump and I would be happy to answer any questions in the future.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:11 am 
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Thanks for updating us! I'm about 2 months into my taper after being on sub for 5 months. I started at 16 mg. I am at 10 mg now and in a few days I will drop down to 8 mg. I just love my doc! He is supportive of my taper, although he acknowledges that some people need to stay on sub indefinitely. He just wants to make sure that I taper slowly, especially when I get to 4 mg and lower. I love that I can have an intelligent conversation with my doctor. I've told him a lot about this forum and he wrote down the information, so I don't know if he's ever been on here.

Sorry! I digress. I'm happy for you, Halo! You should keep doing what's comfortable for you.

Amy

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:45 pm 
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Well, after the feel good of getting off subs I got some bad news today. Awhile ago I had one of my front teeth knocked out and had a root canal done and a crown put on. After feeling swelling behind that tooth a few days ago I went to see the orthodontist today. The back of the tooth is pretty nasty looking and it is infected. I was referred to see an endodontist next week, with the likely result being either a root canal or a procedure to pull the tooth if it can't be saved, followed by another procedure to put on a new crown. This will likely happen in the next 2-4 weeks. In the meantime I was prescribed antibiotics.

If the doctors want to prescribe me something like vicodin, especially if the procedure is to pull the tooth, I am wondering if I should tell them beforehand that I used to be on subs and would not feel comfortable taking any type of prescription painkiller. Maybe the pain won't be that bad but I do not want to be tempted, especially so soon after I jumped. I am thinking if the pain is really untolerable after the procedure I would rather take a small amount of sub than any pain medication.


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