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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:23 pm 
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Hello everyone, my name is Errl. I'm 20 years old living in Hawaii and I am an ex-heroin addict. I was using heroin daily for 6 months then got on methadone for another 6 months. In December I decided I wanted off the methadone and wanted to start suboxone. At the clinic I go to they offer methadone and suboxone. So I dropped my dose from 50 Mg to 30 Mg and the doc told me to come back in 3 days to start the suboxone. Well I was nervous and decided to use heroin for a week too minimize the potential of precipitating withdrawal from taking the suboxone after methadone. After 3 days I got my script. I ended up having a hard time waiting 24 hours to take the suboxone so I kept postponing it by using more H. My dad gave me some of his gabapentin, it helped me get through the waiting period and I successfully got on suboxone. I took about 4 Mg the first day and got down to 2 Mg within the first week. It has been 3-4 weeks now and I am taking 1-1.5 Mg a day. I missed my appointment with my doctor this week and I won't be able to get another one for 2 weeks. I have 2 suboxone tablets left so this is a problem. I am a full time college student and can't afford to miss class due to withdrawals. Well a perfect opportunity to get clean just showed up. It is Friday now and I have no classes until Wednesday. I need all the support/advice I can get! I'm very determined to get off this stuff for good. I have many comfort meds such as xanax, Kratom, cannabis, hash oil, supplements (valerian, kava kava, passionflower, etc. lets see how this goes! 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:47 pm 
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Your situation in terms of looking for a break to finally jump off sounds similar to mine. I wish you luck with your jump and hopefully it goes fairly easy for you.

you might want to consider getting l-tyrosine if you don't have it. I found it to really help in terms of providing energy and some say it may shorten WD duration, though I think the jury is still out on this one. take that w/ a b6. Actually - go read the thomas recipe if you haven't. I'd link it here but Its on another site and I'm not sure of the policy on that. Either way, it's not very hard to track down. Good luck!

oh! one last thing. On Kratom - don't take enough to get high. In fact, try to stay below 10G if you're set on going that route. In the end if you're switching Suboxone for Kratom, you'll end up with WD from the kratom potentially. I've noticed mild WD from kratom from 3+ day use. You might find it different. That said, some people do report getting off w/ kratom successfully though you're technically trading one opiate for another.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:57 pm 
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Thank you for your reply and good wishes! Yes I do have L-Tyrosine, I got everything in the Thomas Recipe so I feel prepared :D & I have heard that too about the Kratom so I'm going to be careful to not use it more then a week or so. I just need to get through the first 5 days and I'll be good! How about you are you also planning on jumping off soon? & if so what dose and how long have you been on the subs? Good luck to you also in your recovery!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:12 pm 
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Well.. im at .34MG right now. Using the liquid taper. been on suboxone for the second time for about two years now. Been at .5MG for almost 5 months. Though during the entire time this two year period I never took suboxone 2 days in a row. I figured it might help to space it out to reduce how much bupe built up in my system. Long story short, that's the reason im getting off. I can't deal with almost WD's and sometimes WD's every 3 days anymore. It's becoming beyond annoying. I figure I'll be off in a few months from now, provided things go well. Potentially sooner. I'm going to taper as low as possible though because I can't take time off from work.

I should probably add - the kratom is a large reason why I went back on subs the second time. So I know quite a bit about it first hand. Don't be like me :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:06 pm 
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Welcome Errl. Glad you posted here with us. Part of the beauty of this place is to be able to get very honest advice. Sometimes that brutal honesty is hard to take but very vital to your sobriety and your life.

Your post has so many red flares going off that I could hardly see the computer screen. Getting off sub is often very difficult for people. Staying clean after stopping Bup can be even harder. You need to have sobriety under your belt and working a solid program. Age is often a factor with addicts under 30 years old especially at risk for relapse. Most people report significant withdrawl symptoms and struggles for 10 to 14 days followed by several more weeks of moderate struggle. It often takes 21 days just to feel somewhat normal.

Are you seeing how you fit with this? You state you could not even go from methadone to sub without using heroin and starting early. Now you want to somehow just drop from a moderately high dose and be done in less than a week. How can this possibly lead to success?

Please rethink this. It's so, so much harder than you anticipate. You have to get a solid plan in place. Willpower and mot certainly luck have nothing to do with it. Statistically your chances at success are below 10%. I don't want to see you risk not only relapse but DEATH from overdose. You are not at all ready to stop medication assisted treatment yet. Missing a doctor appointment is yet another signal.

Hopefully others will post to you as well. I want the best for you and everyone like you. Please try to get back in to see your doctor!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:11 am 
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errl808

I have read your post and was to chicken to say what donh said. There are many red flags as he/she said.


Why did you go from heroin to methadone? The w/d's would have been mild since you hadn't used that long. In my mind you will be detoxing off 3 things, heroin, methadone & suboxone. That may be hard on you. Do you have a counselor or go to any support meetings? What will be different this time? Sub is very strong and is keeping any cravings at bay right now. Do you have a plan for when a craving hits?

My words are because i am concerned about you. I do believe if we can live drug free that is the best way but after playing around with opiates I learned willpower and desire is just not enough. There are other sites that say the w/d is the easy part, it's staying clean that is hard.

IMO, taking 6 months now to go to detox & long term rehab would be the best thing. You are an amazing person to maintain good grades in college while fighting this addiction!

So, today is Saturday, how are you doing?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:51 pm 
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Hello Errl :)

I think ur not completely prepared for how long ur withdrawal time will be. I know u said Friday to Wednesday u will have off school. Like donh said earlier it sometimes takes 21 days to feel somewhat normal. Also a majority of ppl report symptoms just starting to hit around the 3-4th day after the last dose and these are ppl who have tapered to a low low dose. I'm not trying to discourage u at all, I just want u to be prepared. U are doing so well at school right now and I would hate to see u struggle over something some of the ppl here can prepare u for. I just want u to make double sure u really want to take on all this right now. If u had trouble with withdrawal when u were getting onto suboxone, ur probably gonna have trouble coming off too and nobody here wants to see u relapse. That would be awful because u seem to be doing so well with school. If the withdrawal gets to be to much for u and u think u may relapse, call ur sub doctor asap and explain the whole situation. They could very well help u and u can start this all over at a time u are better prepared. I want the best for ya and only wanna see ya accomplish exactly what u want to.

Let us know how ur doing! I hope u have an easy breezy time and report bk to us with positive news no matter what direction u go in :)

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Jennifer


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:31 pm 
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I'd agree with what's said here. In a best case you're looking at 7 or 8 days with the worst hitting you on or around day 5. If you'd started today that would be weds. That doesn't mean Thurs / Fri etc would not be hard. They would be. I agree with these guys though. You need to want it past besides not being able to see your doc. That's a recipe for relapse.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:32 pm 
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Hi Eerl,

I remember your first posts with us when you were trying to switch to the Suboxone. I have to say I am VERY CONCERNED for you. I hope you will listen to everything that was said above and keep in mind that we are not merely trying to convince you to stay on suboxone because we are users of it ourselves. I fully support those who want to be free of medication, but only when they are ready. What has changed today from one month ago when you couldn't make it 24hours without the H? I would argue the only thing different is that you switched from the ups and downs of methadone to suboxone, which provides a much more stable feeling. A feeling of normalcy which can make people who are on it believe that they are better and ready to be drug free, when in actuality they are not.

I really want to make sure you understand that nobody is trying to anger you by telling you the truth here. But I would be lying to you if I said I thought this was a good idea. I can't take the risk of blowing sunshine up your butt and sending you down a path to your relapse. Please think about the things that were said above. There are years of wisdom included in their statements.

Can you instead try to maintain on a lower dose of the subs for a few days? If you called your doctor and told them that you were in danger of relapse would they not see you on an emergency basis?

Whatever you decide, don't disappear on us. Keep posting. Even if we don't agree with what you are doing, it's good to have someone to hold you accountable and support you through this. This is scary stuff errl. Please think very hard about your options and where you really are in your recovery. I think you can find a way to get in to see your doctor if you try hard enough.

Q

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No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:25 am 
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Hi Errl,

I also think you should listen to those above that have advised caution. It sounds like you are trying to do this too fast. Am I reading your post right? Did you go from using H for 6 months and after that to Methadone, to H, to Subs all within a few weeks? I can't tell you how important it is to give yourself time. It is also important to get help through AA, NA, or maybe counseling of some kind (from a counselor that specializes in addiction). For most addicts, like it was for myself, it is a mental and physical addiction. Both need attention. Please, please consider taking Subs a little longer and consider treating the mental side of addiction as well. This is so very important. You sound like a determined person, and that is good. It will help you so much. But it's ok to allow yourself some time.

Congratulations on getting off the H. I hope you are doing well.

Fijay


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:11 am 
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Hey Errl!
While you may not be or seem 100% ready, who really ever is? You slipped up and used, but methadone withdrawals are no joke. So I can see why you would use dope in between switching from methadone to suboxone. But that is the main reason why you should try to stop now. What's the worst that can happen other than ending up back on heroin, methadone or suboxone and starting all over again? You've used recently so its not like you would be ruining years of sobriety. I'm not saying this to seem sarcastic or condescending, I think that if you feel like you can detox now, then why not try. Staying on the suboxone won't serve to do anything more than keep you from craving heroin. You have the right idea with the gabapentin, kratom, xanax etc. I can tell you from my experience that withdrawals from suboxone are nowhere near as bad as withdrawing from methadone. They're less intense and most importantly don't last as long. The physical withdrawals anyways.
You definitely need all the support you can get. If you try to detox and find its not possible, maybe you can get in to see your doctor early. They may understand if you've given it a few days and tell them your in full blown withdrawals. If not I'm assuming there is a methadone clinic that sees people on a daily basis near you, maybe you can go there until your able to see your sub doc again.
You have two 2mg pills left? I'd stretch them out as far as you can so you can taper down to almost nothing, by the time you run out you'll be withdrawing from a very small amount. Hopefully this will make the withdrawals less severe.

Best of luck to you! Every attempt to get clean is a clear sign of truly wanting to be clean. So even if you don't succeed this time, you will still be one step closer to being sober.


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