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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Hey Lilly,

Congratulations on 8 days!! It takes an awful lot of determination and courage to get to where you are now. Have you had any complications with your pregnancy during your wd.....I still can't believe your doctor did that to you, cutting you off like he did.

Immodium is chemically very, very similar to Demerol. Immodium does not cross the blood brain barrier, so you're not going to get high by taking it, but I have heard of many people going through opiate detox who swear by Immodium. I just don't completely understand its mechanism of action in helping opiate wd.

I took Immodium during my wd, but never more than 2 pills at a time and I only took it for my "bathroom issues."

Stay strong Lilly and I hope your pregnancy progresses without a hitch.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:30 pm 
Thanks for asking Romeo, all is good on the pregnancy front. Supposedly the riskiest time to w/d (or even taper really) is the first and third trimesters and I'm 14 wks on Monday so that puts me right in the middle. I had an ultrasound past week and baby looked 100% perfect so I am so grateful for that. Yeah, I really can't believe my doc cut me off like she did, it just goes to show how ignorant some Dr's are to the strength of what they are prescribing. It's nuts. This detox has been especially hard b/c I did such a quick taper and didn't ever get to a low enough dose before jumping and I can't use any of my usual go to comfort meds b/c of the pregnancy. I'm ashamed to say that on day 6, so 2 days ago, I called her crying like a little girl. It was a voice mail and when I started saying aloud all the things I was feeling and going thru I just broke down. I asked her to call me in 1 or 2, 2 mg pills so that I could taper a bit more. She called me back hours later and said she could see me the following day at 5 but would not call anything in so I just said F it. I've come this far and I'm not gout back. If she would have made it easy for me I would probably be back at square one so I'm glad she didn't. I've come to far. Still feel like hell but I keep saying to myself "this to shall pass". I think someone else posted that here and it's so true. So I'm sure I have some tough days (and nights!) ahead but I am desperately holding on to the hope that things will get better from here. Going thru this makes me never want to see another opiate again, I just want my old self back!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:54 pm 
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Lilly,

Amazing... Day 8... I remember that one well... Obviously our experiences will differ, but for me as you've read... Those days were tough. I can tell by your writing that your in decent enuf spirits which to me shows alot about your progress. During my early stages I literally didn't want to even sign up for this or take the time to write... I thought I didn't have it in me. You'll write, reflect... And be surprised about what comes out. I don't know if you read my rant from I think sometime after day 8.... I was definitely in a weird place..hehe but it's something we ALLL Have said and thought as addicts, I just said it. It felt/feels good to write

I'm also very happy and relieved to hear that the pregnancy is going well. I'm sure your prolly talking to him/her alot. You have there quite literally the biggest and most inspirational reasons to do what your doing! Your doing incredible girl! I have good vibes about this for you. I see sub in your past and not looking back! I hope your doing all the things that make you feel good... Things you enjoy and makes you smile! It's important to KEEP YOUR MIND OCCUPIED! I still am haing to mind fuck myself when an episode comes on... Chills, and shakes and cramps. Not too long... But it happens. I usually literally start laughing at it... Do like


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:04 pm 
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I'd do like a little shake it off move and just laugh.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:21 pm 
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Lilly, it does get better, I promise you, it does get better.....it just takes FOR-FUCKING-EVER it seems!!! :D

Really though, your brain is trying its damdest to figure what the heck just happened to it. It's so used to having Suboxone, a partial agonist opiate, in there and it's just reeling from the sudden loss of the drug. To the best of my knowledge, when we abuse opiates, we actually grow more opiate receptors. When we quit taking opiates, those extra receptors die off. When they die off, they send out distress signals that they're dying.....that's wd. Again, that's my basic understanding of the process.

Anyhoo, day 8 is a real milestone. You are one fantastically strong lady, I know that much.

I like the "this too shall pass" saying as well. A saying that got me through some rough periods was, "when you think you've reached the end of your rope, tie the rope around your waist and keep hanging on!"

You will start feeling better soon Lilly. You won't be ALL better right away, but at least you won't feel like your sucking pavement.

BTW, listen to Varitech, he's got some great experience with this and he's "in it to win it."

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 Post subject: Rome and VTech
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:08 pm 
Wow guys, I am so glad I joined this forum. I had tears in my eyes reading both your posts, it feels so great to have such kind words, support and advice. No one knows about me taking sub - I mean know one, except my ex doc. That part has been really hard since no one knows what's going on with me. I've just been blaming it on being prego. It's just so shameful, my road to addiction wasn't very typical I guess and none of my friends, family or fiancé couldNot good, just want this shit to be over! I thought after 12 wks I'd be good but i guess not :( really relate. At least that's how I feel. It's a great motivator for me to get thru this tho b/c the guilt, shame and fear of discovery have been a huge burden for too long!!

Romeo, my dr told me the same thing about opiates creating more receptor sights but she also told me that those extra receptors die off while we're on sub. Maybe she meant as we taper to low doses b/c it sure doesn't feel like it right now. I like your end of the rope quote - I'm gonna add that to my list!

VTech, I definitely think your acute w/d's were worse than mine, it felt/feels like mine have been the worst but I definitely think I was getting more sleep b/c I never got less than like 4 or 5 hours but I was using unisom or Benadryl every night. Also I seemed to have had a good appetite thru all this, although I've only been able to eat cereal, toast and stuff like that. Both the sleep and the eating could have to do with being preg tho b/c babies demand both! I'm really making a point of posting and reading b/c it's really helping me mentally. I think I didn't post day 6 & 7 and in hind sight those were the darkest days for me.

So anyway, day 9 for me. Never been this far, never. I have chills just writing that! Yesterday was ok, rls, anxiety, fatigue and sleep probably the biggest things still causing problems but I made myself get out since I had the day off. Today I woke up and felt... good! Almost happy. Then about 30 minutes ago I had a full on panic attack so I jumped in the shower, probably 1 of 10 I'll take today :). Felt better after and now just back to wearing my lead suit and laying on the couch. Monday will be day 11 and I'll be working so
I just hope to be ok by then, I know I won't be 100% but maybe 75%? I pray for 75%!!

It is a strange thing tho with sub, this is my third (and I swear to god final!) jump and I really think that the higher dose you jump from the more severe the symptoms will be but it seems to me that the duration is almost always the same. Maybe that's just me. I'm sure metabolism and individual body chemisty plays a big role of course, as does strength and sheer will power!!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Lilly,

Your already sounding like I did during my early withdrawal. The whole, this sucks but could be worse....im actually doing this... 3rd and FINAL jump! I like hearing that! You gotta stare this bitch in the face and just get sooo fuggin mad that you wanna back hand this bitch... You wanna shake the life outta it and say leave me!! You can't beat me! I think you got that part goin for ya. So this is what? Day 10? If you remember reading my experience... Day 10/11 for me was my absolute peak! It was a barrage of obstacles... But you know what happened next? I started getting better and better and fairly quick. It's all one day at a time... It's mind over matter and sheer power of will! I'm sitting here at day 24, and it's wild to think that in 6 days, I'll be 30 days in! I mean by the end of this week... I'll be a month subless! I don't miss a damn thing about it. I can tell you with certainty that I am having to cravings for opiates sub or oxy alike. NONE. I've siked myself (spelling is incorrect I know) into makin my mind truly HATE opiates. It all started a long time ago when everytime I got clean and relapsed, I would get so damn I'll, I mean sick as a dog from doing even small amounts of oxy. I never ever used to get sick. I would chalk it up to my body telling me "your


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:44 pm 
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done asshole!, No more for you!" I never forgot how I felt then... And I will never forget how I've felt this past 24 days. Lilly, you will conquer this... And you will be liberated in a way you prolly never thought possible! I'm proud of everything your doing. It's a tough time, and your going about it alone... Which I had tried many many times before and failed. I did it this time cuz I let the cat outta the bag. Your a damn strong soul Lilly... With a baby on the way and the secret locked tight...Lil, your good to go hun. Your invincible and you know it! Nothing will break you and believe me... IT's ONLY GETTING BETTER FROM HERE!! Your now a new warrior! Command and conquer girl!!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Also, I meant to poat this awhile ago.... I got doctor friend of mine starting his residency to give me his opinion in THE SNEEEEEZES! Now, there was a lot of medical jargon but heres how I remembered it. Our bodies have "sympathizers" in them. When a foreign agent, chemical, anything not the norm enters our bodies, the sympathizers adapt and try to make us more comfortable. When your an addict and so much of something overwelms the sympathizers... They more or less go numb. There for, take away the instance of the drug or chemical, sympathizers go apeshit... And your senses are now the most sensetive and heightened then they ever been. Hence... Anything having the ability to tickle your nose! SNEEEZE! Or remember when you went outside in the sun early in your WD... IT WAS LIKE TURN DOWN THE SUN! What's that smell?! What's the weird taste in my mouth! Yup... All that.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:32 am 
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VariTech, Lilly and Romeo,

I just got back from Disney with the teens, I had to pretty much hang out in the hotel doing homework (fun) but it was at elast nice to be away for a while.

I just got caught up on the posts. You guys are doing so well. I can only pray I can do the same. I am holding at 4mg, I had the strips and my doctor just wrote for the 2mg of the Subutex instead of Suboxone. The pharmacy had to order it so I can pick up tomorrow. I need to drop to 3.5 or 3.0 I am not sure what is better. I want to do this but have to admit I am scared shitless of the wd's. When I think about it I actually have a panic attack and it seems like I can't breathe. I know it cannot be any worse for me then what you all have gone through. I have all the comfort medicines and the ability to take time off work when it gets back.

I feel like a chicken shit and am so scared I will fail. What the heck! I read how strong you guys have been and am thinking what the !@#$ is wrong with me. Suck it up, girl. I have all the comfort medicines and can pretty much put myself in a coma if I want to. It just seems like a cop out. The only thing I can think that is making it so bad is the fact of how unprepared I was for the withdraw when it happened before. I had quit from 32mg and went on a Fentnyl patch, but the bad withdraw hit on like day eight and I thought I wanted to die. It just hit me like a ton a brick's and I think it actually traumatized me.

I just hope I can get through this, I keep hoping if I taper long enough it will be alright, then I think just jump and deal with it, be tough like these other people.

Congrats to you guys, I am just going to keep watching how strong you have been and keep the faith.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:59 am 
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Hey ontoolong,

OMGosh did your post ever make me laugh. You said you wish you could be tough like we were and just jump.....personally, I consider myself to be quite DUMB for jumping off a high dose!! :lol:

I completely understand how a previous wd of yours could have traumatized you. I was the same way before I got off Suboxone, I was DREADING the wd because of the previous wd's I had put myself through. Being completely scared shitless of an upcoming wd is completely normal.

If I were you, I'd keep on tapering. Take it slow and easy. I'd make my drops fairly small so I could build my confidence up so you're not dreading each successive drop. That advice was given to me by my addiction counselor....too bad I didn't listen to him!!! :D

Now that you're around the 4mg mark, I'd try dropping my dose by only 10% or so. That would mean shooting for 3.5mg. Remember, this isn't a race, you're trying to remove the opiates from your body slowly and a little bit at a time so your body doesn't go all apeshit on you.

Good luck!! Oh yeah, I absolutely don't think you're a chicken shit, not at all, you're facing what to you is an uncertain wd and I think you're pretty dang brave!!

Lilly, day 11 today!! How are you doing??

Varitech, Holy Wow, 30 days.....can you believe it?? You've come a long way Bud!

PS---I LOVE Disney....I wish I could live there!! We've been several times (DisneyWorld) and it's always one of our very favorite vacation spots.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Yea, definitely not chicken shit. I remember withdrawling from past opiates. I'd be damn near traumatized!! I would have nightmares and yea... Couldn't get it out of my head. It's normal. It's nothing anybody would ever want to experience! Your doing the right thing, believe me! Take it slow... Take it easy! Believe me! Why do you think it took me 3 years to jump? I just said fuck it! I did it to myself... Bring the pain so to speak! I wish you the best ontoolong! Glad to see you back here!!

Lilly,

hope your doing well! Hope to hear from ya soon. Your so close girl! I hope your in good spirits. It's important to be a hardass in all this. Believe me! Be ruthless! Again, hope to hear your progress!!

BTW, huge milestone coming. I'm day 25, 5 days from 30, I'm stunned. It's such an amazing thing for me to think about from where I was to where I am. But... Day 25 disclaimer...was not a great day. I jumped from a very high dose compared to most I think... So I had a feeling I'd have days like this. I'm not trying to discourage anyone... I'm just being honest, and venting. Today... 25 days later, was not a great day. Had a pretty challenging bout with chills... And it was 71 degrees today. I didn't have much in the way of running to the bathroom in the early stages... But today... 4 times! I don't know... Don't get it really. Coulda been dinner last night... Could be PAWS... Either way I took the discomfort and all in stride. I feel better as we speak... But man was I not happy today... But I put on a positive facade and stayed head held up and went about my day... Mama said there be days like this they'll be days like this my mama said. Therefore I'll take the good with the bad and continue on this long windy road! Bring it! I'm sure I can handle it...Nothing compares to where I was 15 days ag


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:37 pm 
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15 days ago... Soo... This is a cakewalk compared to it all! So remember folks... Lif'es a damn hole...DIG IT!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:26 pm 
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Varitech, you're amazing, man.....simply amazing. Your attitude is killer!! For all those folks on here that jumped from a high dose, pay attention to my man Varitech, he's rocking the show!!

On a side note, isn't it screwy how you can be walking along, doing pretty decent, then WHAMO, you get some wd again. That always made me go :shock: ....then :? ....then :evil: and think to myself, I AIN'T GIVING UP, I'VE COME TOO DAMN FAR TO THROW IN THE TOWEL NOW!!!

Rock On!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:36 pm 
Hi all! Sorry I didn't post yesterday, for whatever reason day 10 was a hard one for me. Truthfully today wasn't the greatest either but, of course, better than the worst days BY FAR! Working today was good, kept me busy and focused but as the day wore on the anxiety and fatigue just got the better of me so I came home a little early.

VTech, you said these days were tough for you too so I'm hoping tomorrow brings some better times. That's sooo interesting about the sneezing, i have always wondered about that and it makes perfect sense! I'm still sneezing up a storm but that's the 1 symptom I don't mind :) The length of this shit is the part that really affects me, like you said VTech, it's a total mind fuck. I'm thinking the nights when my sleep is worse the following days tend to be worse as well. BTW, those bathroom issues didn't get in for me till like day 6 or so either and still here. Just goes to show how long this shit hangs on. Anyway, I don't mean to complain b/c with the bad there's tons of good. I feel like I'm falling in love with my fiancé all over again, loving music, loving everything. Just wish I wasn't wearing a lead suit so I could get out and start doing stuff again! I did manage to go out to brunch saturday and to visit a friend on Sunday for a short while so that was pretty huge in my eyes. VTech, you're doing so awesome!! Almost a month, that's so amazing! You really have helped me more than you will know. I want to asks you guys how long this will last but I know no one can answer that. I know it will get better, I know it.

Ontoolong,

I sooo know how you feel about the fear. I've been there. The first time I stopped subs was about 5 years ago and I was so ignorant about it I honestly had no clue I would feel w/d's. Boy was I surprised! I remember after day 5 I just could not believe what was happening, I honestly thought something else was wrong, like flu or something. Needless to say I never made it to day 6. The second time I tapered super low and super slow and didn't feel much, more the psychological than the physical. I think there are good and bad to both jumping and tapering but I think the most important thing is that you stop when you are ready.


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 Post subject: SUpport
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:49 pm 
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Varitech, Lilly and Romeo,

Thanks so much for the support. I am certainly trying to get myself ready for the worse. I went to the pharmacy to get my 2mgs pills but they are not in yet. I have strips and am trying to get 3mg but it might be 3.5 for all I know. I know when I get those pills it will be a lot easier.

Varitech,

The addiction doctor I am working with (he has connections to some of the best, so they say :wink: ) He has told me that since the sub clings so tight to those receptors they can be some left for a time after and some w/d like chills, aches, fatigue, jeevies, etc.... can hit you out of the blue just when you think all is looking up. But it is still looking up, that just means more of that shit is coming off the receptors, I am sure it sucks, but man you are there. Awesome. I am so proud of you and I don't even know you, it gives me hope and strength to keep going here. I want it sooooo bad.

Lilly,

You are doing great. Girl I have to give you credit, WOW. I am not sure I could hold up. Hang in there you are going to make it, you can do it. I would love for us to all be able to talk someday. If you need anything,just to talk send me a note, I am sure I might need the same at some point soon.

Romeo,

Thanks for the words, this is sooo hard. At least I feel like like someone gets it, my mom tries but well, not so much. LOL She loves me but does not get the agony of how bad it feels. I will let you know how the taper is going.

Thanks for all of you


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Romeo,

No, your the man dude! Thanks a million x million for the kind words. wisdom and support throughout all of this. It's been more of a help than you know! Ya gave me hope, and courage, and wisdom to be the positive person I am right now. Thank again man! I look forward to the day where I can come back on here and proudly state that I myself am over a year off Sub.

Ontoolong,

I knew what I had gotten myself into. I did a lot of research and tried to make sure I knew what was going to happen and when. I did what I did because I was ready. It was bad timing with the new job, and trying to sell the condo, find a place. I could stop and screw myself by calling out, and putting myself in a bad spot... I knew that the best thing to do, was pick myself up by the collar of my shirt and haul ass to work... live my life as if nothing was wrong. Clearly.... tough! Not easy...but EXTREMELY possible! Anyone can do this. So yea, jumping from essentially 11mg in less than 24hrs... definitely had a huuuge CAUTION sign attached to it. But I had to do what I had to do. And so can you when YOU FEEL READY. Take it slow like Romeo said, or do your taper at a pace you are comfortable with, and more power to ya! Also, thank you so very much for all the encouraging and kind words. It helps in my spirits to stay high.

Lilly,

Hoping your doing well with your day 12. Day 12 for me was a turning point. I started feeling some of the real powerful and uncomfortable WD's kinda slip away a bit. The biggest issue for me was the lack of sleep. You said you feel like you had a lead suit on. YES INDEED I DEED I DID AS WELL... and like times 100 mixed with the sleep deprivation. That combo was a real spirit breaker, and a hard hard pill to swallow. It was really what broke me. I remember around day 10/11 or so crying to my girlfriend at 4:30 in the morning. I had just gotten out of the shower, and the scolding heat made me feel so much better and I just wanted to sleep... but I had to get into my car and drive for 2 hours. Then the being on my feet for 9 hours, walking from here to there, pushing, pulling, lifting, and ugh.. yea... It was a challenge for real! I think I posted about that day. Obviously though.... I did it... and here I am. 26 days later. It goes quicker, I think, than it feels inside... I would get so much anxiety... but honestly... I'd get in my car... crank the heat... put on some tunes... and I could literally feel the anxieties slowly dissipate. Which I believe is what your experiencing right now. It's quite exhilarating to isn't it? To re-discover all these emotions and little feelings and quirks that We/you/I have lost along the years from dosing... and changing our chemical make-up of our brains. Now.... our brains are healing... our bodies are healing... and its bringing to the surface all these hardcore feelings we haven't felt in a long long time. Your love for your fiance, music... art, movies... all that... Its actually overwhelming... and its freakin great! I'm still finding lil things I may have lost along the way. Bottom line, I feel your past xero barrier. It's going to get better more and more... and you'll begin to enjoy this... as much as its work... and perseverance... EVERY little shitty feeling, and GREAT feeling becomes WELL WORTH IT! At least that's how I feel about it. I hope to hear that things are well... and I will continue to share my progress as well! TAKE CARE ALL!!


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 Post subject: Day 12
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:09 pm 
Hi guys and gal,

I just want to say thank you again for all the help, support and inspiration. I swear to god it's gotten me through this so far!

Unfortunately I had a pretty shitty day today, not really sure why. Last night I was feeling so good, had a big appetite and ate a big, real meal, did some chores and watched a movie. Big stuff :) And to top it off I didn't have to sit in the shower for 20 minutes before bed just to calm my legs and nerves just to be able to lay down. I thought I was turning a big corner but then at 12:30 am I was up, wide awake, anxious as hell and so uncomfortable! I was so upset, not b/c it was so awful b/c of course it's nothing like it was in the beginning but it's just like - when is this gonna be over??? I try to just go with it when I wake in the middle of the night so I took a shower, ate some cereal and watched some late night talk shows and just tried to relax but I ended up not falling back to sleep until after 3. Needless to say I was draggin ass at work all day even tho I popped up wide awake at 6 am. VTech, I don't know how you did with such a physical job and that brutal commute. It's all I can do to sit my ass at my desk all day. It's really hard for me concentrate and get motivated at work right now too which makes the minutes just drag on.

All that aside though I am physically sooo much better, I'd say 80%? Big problems are still the lack of energy and the legs but other than that I feel pretty okay. I'm hoping for some good sleep tonight - I know that will make things so much better!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:13 pm 
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Thanks Varitech, it really helps me and my recovery to know that I've helped someone else get through what I went through. When I quit Suboxone, I didn't know this forum existed, I didn't know of anyone else who had quit Suboxone and I was my doctors very first patient to quit Suboxone......I had no idea what was in store for me. My Suboxone doctor told me that I would experience 2 or 3 days of wd, then I'd be OK......HA.....I wish!!!

My wife and my daughter did what they could to help me survive, but they never really knew what I was going through.....nobody really knew what I was going through and that made me feel quite alone and made everything worse. To top it off, I ended up taking 5 weeks off of work, I had no idea that was the worst thing I could possibly do. I sat at home on the couch the whole time, again, the worst thing I could have done, but I didn't know any better, my body was screaming at me the whole time to sit around and not do shit, I had no idea I wasn't supposed to listen to my body during wd?

4 months into my wd I found this forum, I ran across someone going through wd and I told them what not to do, as far as wd goes. They said something to the effect of me turning my extreme negative experience with wd into a positive by helping others and that's always stuck with me. So, by helping you, I'm actually helping myself too because it's keeping things positive.

BTW, I just checked out the views on this thread......over 5000!!! Imagine how many people that have visited this thread who are ready to quit and you're experience has given them hope.

Hope, I think that's the key word here. We're giving people hope and there is simply no amount of money in the world that can give people hope who are going through what we've been through.

Gosh, sorry to drone on, this stuff is just near and dear to my heart because I SO don't want anyone else to experience the total bleakness that I did.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:23 pm 
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LillyJ, I wish you could understand just how well you're doing, compared to some other stories, you really, really are doing so well. So many of us who have quit Suboxone describe it as a roller coaster ride, you're up, then you're down, you're up, then you're down. Mercifully, the ups soon outlast the downs and it keeps getting better.....slowly. This wd is gonna test your patience like nothing else I've ever experienced, BUT once you're through it, you will feel a sense of strength and confidence in yourself that you've probably not experienced before. I remember feeling like Superman as I got through my wd. I looked back at what I had survived and I was all like, "dude, you're completely Bad Ass!!!" :D

I'm wishing you a Great night sleep!!

Keep hanging in there, you're really doing so good!!

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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